NY Times: Iran is the Source

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
They also like to hide behind their own women and children and then blame Israel when they are caught in the crossfire.[/quote]

If you’re referring to the carnage Lebanon endured last summer, I’d advice you to get a historical perspective on Hezbollah to get a sense of the grassroots nature of the organization.

The IDF (IAF?) stationned their troops and built weapon factories around Israeli Arab villages. It’s worth noting that bomb shelter are never built in such villages.

http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk08152006.html

62

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
A wise man once said, “if you can’t get out of a fight, get into it”.[/quote]

A stupid man once said, “if you can’t do something, do its opposite”.

63

[quote]lixy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Isn’t that the hospital where terrorists were hiding and storing munitions?

That’s not the big picture.

http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/pwork/0412/041205.htm

You seem confident in your assertion. I have one question: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?[/quote]

Absolutely crazy untrue propaganda. How can we be dealing with the inhumane treatment of prisoners in the Abu Gharab thing STILL then? Because It was true and we are dealing with the concequences.

This is crap and untrue. If it were true, we’d have been truly dealing with concequences of these alleged things.

You need to go away with all your BS.

64

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
lixy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Isn’t that the hospital where terrorists were hiding and storing munitions?

That’s not the big picture.

http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/pwork/0412/041205.htm

You seem confident in your assertion. I have one question: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?

Absolutely crazy untrue propaganda. How can we be dealing with the inhumane treatment of prisoners in the Abu Gharab thing STILL then? Because It was true and we are dealing with the concequences.

This is crap and untrue. If it were true, we’d have been truly dealing with concequences of these alleged things.

You need to go away with all your BS.
[/quote]

This stuff is such crap. I wonder who funds it.

65

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
You need to go away with all your BS.
[/quote]

I shall reiterate: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?

66

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

The choice, for the U.S. in 1917, was either to stay true to the campaign promise of staying out of the war, or to embark on a journey of Wilsonian interventionism that would forever alter the fate of the nation and the world. The U.S. chose to intervene, and thus toppled the balance of power in Europe and the Near East, creating a new world order and paving the way for the rise of fascism, communism, Pan-Arab nationalism, and the great majority of bloodshed in the 20th century (which is to say, the greatest bloodshed in history of the world).

Only a dumbass would believe that the “world began in 1940” and nothing before then had any relevance.

This is one of the “glorious myths” of neocon lore that was used to justify every American conflict and intervention post-WWII. But now we’ve entered a new era, and the “beginning of history” is no longer 1940 but 9/11/01. A new generation of Americans is being indoctrinated with this alternate history.[/quote]

Your understanding of megapolitics is flawed. The British knew that their tiny island couldn’t be the hegemonic power forever. By getting Lincoln elected, they established the partnership — Lincoln’s end was to initiate ‘Big Government’, which followed his plan for internal subsidies and patronage.

The South wanted no part in the ‘Partnership’ that so they seceded btw. The idea was to have a rising power with similar economic and political ideas waiting in the wings for when Britain waned. Who better than an economic colossus like us? Why do you think Britain invested so heavily here? Think, man!!

Now, the Chinese are being prepped in similar manner as we were. Why do you think they buy most of our debt and turned into a capitalist econmy? They’re the next hegemon. We now will have a Great Depression, the US will call on China to help crush the Muslim world. Then, China’s the hegemon.

You of all posters should know all this. Sheesh…

67

[quote]lixy wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
You need to go away with all your BS.

I shall reiterate: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?[/quote]

That is not the subject, nor does it have anything to do with your posts and the points you try to make.

68

everytime lixy writes I can hear his foot going into his mouth

69

[quote]lixy wrote:

I shall reiterate: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?[/quote]

Better question: is there a need to?

70

[quote]lixy wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
You need to go away with all your BS.

I shall reiterate: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?[/quote]

In the field? You don’t. Now, outside of a combat situation, there are ongoing talks with with some ‘resistance’ groups. However, alot of these groups aren’t so much Anti-US groups as they are “we’ll force our theocracy on the rest of you,” types. Hence, the sectarian nature of much of the violence.

It shouldn’t be dismissed that the biggest killers of muslims in Iraq are these “Anti-US” resistance groups. When these groups are intentionally aiming for civilian deaths, they are terrorists, not “resistance groups.” Market bombs, roaming death squads, Political assassinations of ELECTED Iraqi officials, and targeting of Iraqi Security forces are not the acts of freedom fighters.

That’s right, targeting of Iraqi Security forces/police is terrorism! I seem to recall ELECTIONS in Iraq, no? The ISF protect those who were ELECTED by the Iraqi people during huge voter turnouts. And, they attempt to find and eliminate those setting the before mentioned market bombs, therefore protecting the populace. The same populace, once again, that VOTED in huge turnouts.

These people aren’t to be romanticized as freedom fighters or resistance groups. They don’t exist to hand the Iraqi people a free non-sectarian government. They are fighting for the exact opposite. It’s the US, it’s Allies, and the ISF that are protecting an ELECTED government and the civilian populace that VOTED.

If these resistance groups were merely concerned with the US’s presence, they’d run to join the ISF and help hunt down the sectarian death squads and foreign fighters, thereby quickening the pace at which Iraq solely would provide security. These groups know damn well that the US has maintained that it will withdraw troops as Iraq is able to take over more and more of the security. In many regions in Iraq this has happened, and they damn well know that too.

Yet, have they joined the fight to secure Iraq from sectarian terrorists and foreign fighters? Nope. Their actions are completely counter-productive to their stated goal…US withdrawl.

71

Good post Sloth.

72

By the way, is it technically an occupation when an ELECTED governance has asked for and approved of foreign troops, and continues to do so? Simply put, aren’t these ‘resistance fighters’ combating the will of it’s elected government?

They are intentionally combating their ELECTED government’s efforts to secure Iraq from foreign fighters, terrorist, sectarian death squads, etc. These ‘resistance fighters’ know too damn well what would happen if US troops withdrew now…Sectarian Chaos in some (if not many) of the larger population centers. Probably the fall of the ELECTED Government, etc.

Sorry, I’m having a hard time believing these “resistance fighters” are solely interested in a unified and non-sectarian Iraq, just without US troop presence. They can’t be so naive as to overlook the chaos which would surely follow an immediate US retreat.

73

[quote]Sloth wrote:
By the way, is it technically an occupation when an ELECTED governance has asked for and approved of foreign troops, and continues to do so? Simply put, aren’t these ‘resistance fighters’ combating the will of it’s elected government?

They are intentionally combating their ELECTED government’s efforts to secure Iraq from foreign fighters, terrorist, sectarian death squads, etc. These ‘resistance fighters’ know too damn well what would happen if US troops withdrew now…Sectarian Chaos in some (if not many) of the larger population centers. Probably the fall of the ELECTED Government, etc.

Sorry, I’m having a hard time believing these “resistance fighters” are solely interested in a unified and non-sectarian Iraq, just without US troop presence. They can’t be so naive as to overlook the chaos which would surely follow an immediate US retreat.[/quote]

It’s nice to see another person in here who has a reasonable sense of how things really are. Thanks.

74

[quote]Sloth wrote:
By the way, is it technically an occupation when an ELECTED governance has asked for and approved of foreign troops, and continues to do so? Simply put, aren’t these ‘resistance fighters’ combating the will of it’s elected government?

They are intentionally combating their ELECTED government’s efforts to secure Iraq from foreign fighters, terrorist, sectarian death squads, etc. These ‘resistance fighters’ know too damn well what would happen if US troops withdrew now…Sectarian Chaos in some (if not many) of the larger population centers. Probably the fall of the ELECTED Government, etc.

Sorry, I’m having a hard time believing these “resistance fighters” are solely interested in a unified and non-sectarian Iraq, just without US troop presence. They can’t be so naive as to overlook the chaos which would surely follow an immediate US retreat.[/quote]

But, but…what of my romantic freedom fighters fending off the source of all evil and misery in the world, the US?

Great post, Sloth.

75

How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?

The Iraqis and Pakistanis have turned on al-qaeda themselves:

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, on his last day in Iraq, said Monday that American officials were actively pursuing negotiations with the Sunni factions in an effort to further isolate Al Qaeda.

“Iraqis are uniting against Al Qaeda,” Khalilzad said. “Coalition commanders have been able to engage some insurgents to explore ways to collaborate in fighting the terrorists.” [Note from Dreyfuss: Khalilzad is trying to take credit for something that is happening quite on its own, organically, among Sunnis.]

http://uruknet.info/?p=m31721&s1=h1

Over 100 people have been killed in fighting near Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan over the past four days. Most of the dead are believed to be foreign militants allied to al-Qa’ida. But this time it is not the Pakistani military which is fighting them, but local tribesmen

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article2385279.ece

it’s about time they realize who the real terrorists and oppressors are.

76

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
lixy wrote:
Not only you don’t keep a body count but you raided the Fallujah hospital (a blatant breach of the Geneva convention) just because they happened to report casualties by the dozens.

Can’t argue with the “most of them are at the hands of the terrorists!!!” part; The US military has proved to master terrorizing techniques.

Isn’t that the hospital where terrorists were hiding and storing munitions?

They are “freedom fighters”. They are allowed to hide in hospitals and holy places. They also like to hide behind their own women and children and then blame Israel when they are caught in the crossfire.

They are also allowed to kill Israeli children because they will grow up some day and become soldiers.[/quote]

Sure

77

I defenitely read somewhere that the Iranian people, most of whom are under 30, don’t really like their theocracy and they might revolt against their clergy someday, maybe then the United States can support the rebellion, but if we go to war with them now then we will just unite all Iranians against us.

78

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
I defenitely read somewhere that the Iranian people, most of whom are under 30, don’t really like their theocracy and they might revolt against their clergy someday, maybe then the United States can support the rebellion, but if we go to war with them now then we will just unite all Iranians against us. [/quote]

Either we wit until they have the bomb and wipe out Isreal, or we can change the regime.

I think we’ve seen this before.

Let’s just wait, and let Europe deal with it. Besides Iran is not a threat to us anyway. We should also take our troops out of Afganistan, Iraq, close our overseas bases and let everyone be. Things would be much better for the world that way. Then they can blame somone else for the deterioration in the middle east, like themselves.

79

[quote]lixy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Isn’t that the hospital where terrorists were hiding and storing munitions?

That’s not the big picture.

http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org/pwork/0412/041205.htm
[/quote]

That’s exactly the response I expected from you, you’re too predictable.

It is the “big picture”, and it’s also the reality that the U.S. and it’s allies face in Iraq, whether you want to admit it or not. War is hell, and your “freedom fighters”, have chosen places such as mosques, hospitals, and schoolhouses as battlefields. You then make apologies for these assholes and try to paint them as victims.

This “indigenous Iraqi resistance” fantasy of yours is a joke. The reality is this; Iran, al-queda, and other radical Islamic groups are recruiting, training, and funding the terrorists in Iraq. I believe you know this, yet you still choose to make apologies for them.

Sad.

80

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
You need to go away with all your BS.

I shall reiterate: How do you differentiate between the Al-Qaeda style terrorists and indigenous Iraqi resistance to the US occupation?

In the field? You don’t. Now, outside of a combat situation, there are ongoing talks with with some ‘resistance’ groups. However, alot of these groups aren’t so much Anti-US groups as they are “we’ll force our theocracy on the rest of you,” types. Hence, the sectarian nature of much of the violence.

It shouldn’t be dismissed that the biggest killers of muslims in Iraq are these “Anti-US” resistance groups. When these groups are intentionally aiming for civilian deaths, they are terrorists, not “resistance groups.” Market bombs, roaming death squads, Political assassinations of ELECTED Iraqi officials, and targeting of Iraqi Security forces are not the acts of freedom fighters.

That’s right, targeting of Iraqi Security forces/police is terrorism! I seem to recall ELECTIONS in Iraq, no? The ISF protect those who were ELECTED by the Iraqi people during huge voter turnouts. And, they attempt to find and eliminate those setting the before mentioned market bombs, therefore protecting the populace. The same populace, once again, that VOTED in huge turnouts.

These people aren’t to be romanticized as freedom fighters or resistance groups. They don’t exist to hand the Iraqi people a free non-sectarian government. They are fighting for the exact opposite. It’s the US, it’s Allies, and the ISF that are protecting an ELECTED government and the civilian populace that VOTED.

If these resistance groups were merely concerned with the US’s presence, they’d run to join the ISF and help hunt down the sectarian death squads and foreign fighters, thereby quickening the pace at which Iraq solely would provide security. These groups know damn well that the US has maintained that it will withdraw troops as Iraq is able to take over more and more of the security. In many regions in Iraq this has happened, and they damn well know that too.

Yet, have they joined the fight to secure Iraq from sectarian terrorists and foreign fighters? Nope. Their actions are completely counter-productive to their stated goal…US withdrawl.[/quote]

Bump…because I’m interested in seeing how lixy responds to the excellent points sloth makes.