North Korea to Shoot Missile at Hawaii

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
borrek wrote:
Sifu wrote:
If it wasn’t for the massive loss of life and the destruction of Seoul I would say we should just get it over with before this situation gets any worse.

I feel the same. I just don’t think that this missile test is quite what people are making it out to be. There is no question that NK is unstable and KJI is batshit crazy, but I hate that people want to tie this to weakness by Obama or as a result of him changing course on missile defense. North Korea has been doing this shit for a long time, and will continue to do it for a long time. Eventually they will go too far, and they will be reigned in. I’m certain of that.

With Kim-Jong Il being in poor health, and already naming his successor, the future is uncertain and not necessarily rosy. I don’t think they are capable of a direct attack, but they are a possible proliferation threat.

When they finally do go too far, I’m sure that forensic accountants are going to have a field day with the reams of records we pull out of there.

Would it be fair to say that the last several months have shown a dramatic upsurge in north korean provocations?

If yes, then what would an obama voter attribute that to?

Coincidence?

[/quote]

It could be any number of things. It could be Kim Jong Il being incredibly ill after his stroke, and wanting to provoke a new wave of anti-NK “aggression” from the US and our allies to cement the will of his successor.

It could be that NK has seen funding dry up from their insurance fraud schemes and needs to create a bargaining chip for “humanitarian aid” to keep afloat

It could be that close buddies like Ahmadinejad are pushing for NK to assert their “national right” to nuclear technology in order to take pressure off of their own nuclear ambitions

It could be that our cultural enemies are dying for us to become aggressors against poor NK so that they can point their finger at the USA as the big satan, and are not afraid to coax NK into doing something stupid that will draw our wrath.

I think that it does a disservice to us all to just say North Korea is acting up because Obama is “weak” That’s such a circular willful fallacy. If NK continues the path they have been on since well before Obama, then it is further indication that Obama is weak? What this leads up to is that the only way for Obama to prove he is tough on North Korea is through a military strike, which is arguably not the best way to deal with them.

Does anyone here honestly think that Obama is so soft as to allow America to be attacked? And again, let’s be clear, this missile test is not an attack. No president would allow that without unleashing a heavy dose of whoop ass, and anyone who believes so is just being a dipshit. But we are not imminently being attacked. We have defenses in place. Our military has basically shrugged their shoulders at news of the planned launch.

Folks want to laugh about Obama sending “strongly worded letters” but right now the USS John McCain (ironic, no?) is stalking a North Korean vessel suspected of proliferating banned weapons. If the USS John McCain intervenes, this will be the first ever enforcement of the UN resolution giving us the power to search NK vessels suspected of proliferation. Why did Bush not sink this vessel before? Why did Bush not shoot down the North Korean plane that was flying banned gyroscopes to Iran?

You guys want to complicate the missile test, and simplify the international relations just to cut down your own president.

62

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
<<< This is simply untrue.

You people forget the one main goal of people like Kim Jong Il- STAY IN POWER. They get off on doing the shit they do, and if their country is a parking lot, they don’t get to be in power anymore.

This is the same argument I used when talking about Saddam Hussein- he won’t be a serious threat because he likes living the high life. And neither Saddam or Kim Jong are religious nuts who are willing to martyr themselves. They are narcisstic dictators, and narcissistic dictators don’t want to die.

You show a lack of understanding about these kinds of people that run these countries.

[/quote]

The difference between you and me is I’m not willing to bet the farm on your understanding of the kinds of people who run these countries.

63

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
I bet the obama administration has a strongly worded letter just waiting to go to the UN. Just you wait you N.koreans! We’ll call you names if you launch a missile…

Ask those dead pirates about Obama’s strongly worded letters.

If shit hits the fan, he will not stand in the way of the correct action. [/quote]

Shooting some somalian pirates is alittle different than getting our country into another war.

64

[quote]borrek wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
borrek wrote:
Sifu wrote:
If it wasn’t for the massive loss of life and the destruction of Seoul I would say we should just get it over with before this situation gets any worse.

I feel the same. I just don’t think that this missile test is quite what people are making it out to be. There is no question that NK is unstable and KJI is batshit crazy, but I hate that people want to tie this to weakness by Obama or as a result of him changing course on missile defense. North Korea has been doing this shit for a long time, and will continue to do it for a long time. Eventually they will go too far, and they will be reigned in. I’m certain of that.

With Kim-Jong Il being in poor health, and already naming his successor, the future is uncertain and not necessarily rosy. I don’t think they are capable of a direct attack, but they are a possible proliferation threat.

When they finally do go too far, I’m sure that forensic accountants are going to have a field day with the reams of records we pull out of there.

Would it be fair to say that the last several months have shown a dramatic upsurge in north korean provocations?

If yes, then what would an obama voter attribute that to?

Coincidence?

It could be any number of things. It could be Kim Jong Il being incredibly ill after his stroke, and wanting to provoke a new wave of anti-NK “aggression” from the US and our allies to cement the will of his successor.

It could be that NK has seen funding dry up from their insurance fraud schemes and needs to create a bargaining chip for “humanitarian aid” to keep afloat

It could be that close buddies like Ahmadinejad are pushing for NK to assert their “national right” to nuclear technology in order to take pressure off of their own nuclear ambitions

It could be that our cultural enemies are dying for us to become aggressors against poor NK so that they can point their finger at the USA as the big satan, and are not afraid to coax NK into doing something stupid that will draw our wrath.

I think that it does a disservice to us all to just say North Korea is acting up because Obama is “weak” That’s such a circular willful fallacy. If NK continues the path they have been on since well before Obama, then it is further indication that Obama is weak? What this leads up to is that the only way for Obama to prove he is tough on North Korea is through a military strike, which is arguably not the best way to deal with them.

Does anyone here honestly think that Obama is so soft as to allow America to be attacked? And again, let’s be clear, this missile test is not an attack. No president would allow that without unleashing a heavy dose of whoop ass, and anyone who believes so is just being a dipshit. But we are not imminently being attacked. We have defenses in place. Our military has basically shrugged their shoulders at news of the planned launch.

Folks want to laugh about Obama sending “strongly worded letters” but right now the USS John McCain (ironic, no?) is stalking a North Korean vessel suspected of proliferating banned weapons. If the USS John McCain intervenes, this will be the first ever enforcement of the UN resolution giving us the power to search NK vessels suspected of proliferation. Why did Bush not sink this vessel before? Why did Bush not shoot down the North Korean plane that was flying banned gyroscopes to Iran?

You guys want to complicate the missile test, and simplify the international relations just to cut down your own president.[/quote]

That was actually an interesting post.

Unfortunately for you, the simplest answer is usually correct.

obama is viewed as a weakling.

You tell me, if you were these petty dictators, would you be more frightened by W. or by the teleprompter?

We see this pattern repeated so often, it makes me sad that people try to defend it. See jimmy carter.

obama had a golden opportunity to make these thugs guess. He should have killed the pirates (he gets credit) AND THEN wiped out their nests in somalia.

Bomb the ports. There was little chance of U.S. casualties. Little political fallout risk. Since he cares so much about being “liked,” I doubt anyone would have objected to him rooting out the nests of pirates.

That was one of the earliest indications that obama was a weakling. He’ll due the bare minimum with no follow-up.

If you don’t think the bad guys were watching, you are deluding yourself.

You can check the dates. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the violations started in full force after this.

Deterrence. I think it’s a concept that is foreign to the modern democrat.

Oh, just to be fair, if obama boards the n korean vessel, I’ll give him credit.

If he shoots down the missle as soon as it enters international waters, I’ll give him credit.

Sadly, I doubt you’ll take the time to see my point of view.

65

[quote]borrek wrote:
It would be a different matter if the missile had a 5,000 mile range, but it doesn’t, so for now we cannot justifiably do anything. [/quote]

So…you’re OK with blowing North Korea up if somebody in the White House claimed they have a 5,000 mile range missile?

66

[quote]lixy wrote:
borrek wrote:
It would be a different matter if the missile had a 5,000 mile range, but it doesn’t, so for now we cannot justifiably do anything.

So…you’re OK with blowing North Korea up if somebody in the White House claimed they have a 5,000 mile range missile?[/quote]

If they had a missile that could threaten US soil, and it was launched in our direction, then yes.

But “blowing up North Korea” could mean a million things. I think a proportionate response would be to shoot the missile out of the sky, and then wait for them to go through the expense of preparing another launch before demolishing the launch site.

67

[quote]borrek wrote:
If they had a missile that could threaten US soil, and it was launched in our direction, then yes. [/quote]

I hope so.

In the bit I quoted, you don’t talk about any launching. Hence, my question.

68

[quote]Therizza wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

This is the same argument I used when talking about Saddam Hussein- he won’t be a serious threat because he likes living the high life. And neither Saddam or Kim Jong are religious nuts who are willing to martyr themselves. They are narcisstic dictators, and narcissistic dictators don’t want to die.

You show a lack of understanding about these kinds of people that run these countries.

Saddam was hung. Do you mean Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?[/quote]

No he means Saddam, Mahmoud IS a religous nut, he is saying that Saddam and Kim Jong arent and werent.