North Korea Missile Fails

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

They aren’t using SCUDs but rather trying to improve on that technology. I haven’t heard anything about those being deployed, possible though.

As for risk at the moment, I would say not much of a risk. The current idea is that Korea just blew up the missiles after firing them. They 1) wanted attention, not start a war and 2) test that they do fire, not their range. If the missiles take off and can reach space, then they have the distance, no need to actually see if they go that far.

Not sure if people were aware of this, but the ballistic missiles first goes into space (sub-orbital) and then comes back down to their intended targets. This is what makes them so hard to shoot down.

22

The SCUD is a short range missile (1,000) the ICBM which they also were testing has a range between 3500 and 12000km. Unsure how their ICBM did, and if it made it to space.

23

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I am waiting for all the 'tards on this site to start to blame the U.S. for this maniac’s war posturing.

“Oh, if only the U.S. were more understanding to Kim Jong (mentally) Ill.” “Oh, if we were only more liked in the world, etc.”

It is time to stop playing with these despots and it is high time to begin to take them out before they take us out![/quote]

I could have sworn the bible says “though shall not kill”
to quote George Carlin:
“I guess it depends on who’s doing the killing”

24

[quote]cram2012 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
I am waiting for all the 'tards on this site to start to blame the U.S. for this maniac’s war posturing.

“Oh, if only the U.S. were more understanding to Kim Jong (mentally) Ill.” “Oh, if we were only more liked in the world, etc.”

It is time to stop playing with these despots and it is high time to begin to take them out before they take us out!

I could have sworn the bible says “though shall not kill”
to quote George Carlin:
“I guess it depends on who’s doing the killing”[/quote]

Steveo would lead a new Crusade and man a few beheadings if he could.

25

Just for the above, bomb the sites. Use nukes if necessary. No appeasement, no negotiations, no discussions. If China or anyone else objects, ignore them and keep going.

God created hell just for the leadership of NK.

Headhunter

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Steveo would lead a new Crusade and man a few beheadings if he could.[/quote]

What about the beheadings in Iraq? Why didn’t you bring that up here? Sins of ommission, Professor?

I, for one, would be happy to supervise the beheading of Kim Jong-il. Hell, give me the fucking axe!! I’d pay hard money to have that. We could set up a lottery among South Koreans and Americans — would make a fortune!!

HH

27

The situation with North Korea is a difficult one. Their technology is going to continue to develop, the US is going to continue to neither put just enough economic pressure on them to keep them relatively supressed but not enough to drive them to anything utterly drastic, and we’re going to continue keeping an “eye” on them without any real military action, all the while just waiting the current regime out, hoping that KJI will die or the country will have a coup before the shit hits the fan.

We can’t afford to invade them, bombing the sties could have VERY unfortunate consequences (like them giving nukes to terrorists), and increasing our economic pressure on them could cause them to act dratically (a cornered animal is always the most dangerous).

The solution I envision? We are going to stay the course as far as our own policy, and in about 2 or 3 years, hell, maybe even sooner, China is going to attack them out of the blue. They’ll decimate the country, bombing the hell out of them, and swarming the nation with troops. Not that there’ll be much of a land battle, because most of the NK troops will happily surrender. The Chinese will then either occupy the territory indefinitely, replace the government with a puppet regime, or sell the territory back to SK. This will scare the shit out of the rest of the world and solidify China’s position as a new world superpower. This will have far-reaching implications, especially depending on what China decides to DO with NK afterwords.

Remember who called it. :wink:

28

Well,if we went to war with N Korea,we’d probably have the help of the U.K. and South Korea(for their political reasons of domination).
I wouldn’t sweat it much.
We have much more power than these nazi wannabes.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
I am waiting for all the 'tards on this site to start to blame the U.S. for this maniac’s war posturing.

“Oh, if only the U.S. were more understanding to Kim Jong (mentally) Ill.” “Oh, if we were only more liked in the world, etc.”

It is time to stop playing with these despots and it is high time to begin to take them out before they take us out!

Take them out? That should be easy. All we need is a draft for the military.[/quote]

29

[quote]knewsom wrote:
The solution I envision? We are going to stay the course as far as our own policy, and in about 2 or 3 years, hell, maybe even sooner, China is going to attack them out of the blue. They’ll decimate the country, bombing the hell out of them, and swarming the nation with troops. Not that there’ll be much of a land battle, because most of the NK troops will happily surrender. The Chinese will then either occupy the territory indefinitely, replace the government with a puppet regime, or sell the territory back to SK. This will scare the shit out of the rest of the world and solidify China’s position as a new world superpower. This will have far-reaching implications, especially depending on what China decides to DO with NK afterwords.[/quote]

I have to hand it to you, you have a VIVID imagination! You should be making Bruckheimer movies!

Now seriously, there’s no way that’s going to happen. You’re thinking like a Westerner. That’s just not how China operates these days.

Plus, even if they did, the US could NEVER sit by and watch China decimate anyone, even if it’s NK. It just opens a terrible precedent.

China taking out NK aggressively is actually MUCH, much worse than the current situation, for many, many reasons.

Fortunately, I have no doubt that will never happen that way. As I said, it’s just not how they operate these days.

Having said that, I do envision a scenario where China takes over NK – but not through force.

30

[quote]hspder wrote:
I have to hand it to you, you have a VIVID imagination! You should be making Bruckheimer movies! [/quote]

heh, guess I’m in the right industry then… :smiley:

[quote] Now seriously, there’s no way that’s going to happen. You’re thinking like a Westerner. That’s just not how China operates these days.

Plus, even if they did, the US could NEVER sit by and watch China decimate anyone, even if it’s NK. It just opens a terrible precedent. [/quote]

…and where was the US when China and India were duking it out over Tibet? Doesn’t allowing China to occupy another country indefinitely set a dangerous precident? As for China not invading their neighbors, you have to look at more than the last 100 years. Look at the last 2000 years. They’ve invaded Korea TONS of times, and even made a try on Japan. As for China not thinking preemptively, look at the warring states period and the Qin dynasty. The INVENTED the preemtive strike… They have a LOOSE relationship with NK, but I wouldn’t go so far to call them allies. The threat of a US invasion and a stronger western foothold in the reigon could be enough to spur them into action on NK, ESPECIALLY if there’s something to be gained from it, strategically or economically.

[quote]China taking out NK aggressively is actually MUCH, much worse than the current situation, for many, many reasons.

Fortunately, I have no doubt that will never happen that way. As I said, it’s just not how they operate these days.

Having said that, I do envision a scenario where China takes over NK – but not through force.
[/quote]

Yes, but China as a superpower is simply an inevitability. Do I see them making a practice of acting militarily around the world? No, I think their main focus is their region, and history supports that. Could I envision the Chinese staging a coup in NK? Totally. In fact, I think it’d be a much easier way to go than a full scale invasion.

31

[quote]hspder wrote:

I have to hand it to you, you have a VIVID imagination! You should be making Bruckheimer movies!

Now seriously, there’s no way that’s going to happen. You’re thinking like a Westerner. That’s just not how China operates these days.

Plus, even if they did, the US could NEVER sit by and watch China decimate anyone, even if it’s NK. It just opens a terrible precedent.

China taking out NK aggressively is actually MUCH, much worse than the current situation, for many, many reasons.

Fortunately, I have no doubt that will never happen that way. As I said, it’s just not how they operate these days.

Having said that, I do envision a scenario where China takes over NK – but not through force.
[/quote]

Holy Crap! hpsder and I kinda sorta agree. (Pigs must be flying Prof.) I think China is too interested in making money now to want to bother with NK. If anything, I’m of the mind that they have a vested interest slightly against the US on this issue as nobody (besides us) economically wants to incur millions of unskilled, uneducated refugees from a collapsed regime. We strike/invade and succeed, great, China gains a local business partner. We strike/invade and fail, great, China along with the international community pick up pieces, the US looks like douchebags (again). Pretty much the only way China loses is if NK collapses because of sanctions and they are forced to pick up the pieces alone.

32

[quote]knewsom wrote:
…and where was the US when China and India were duking it out over Tibet? Doesn’t allowing China to occupy another country indefinitely set a dangerous precident? [/quote]

Of course it does – but that’s hardly the same as “decimating” North Korea. Completely different things in completely different regions with completely different dynamics.

[quote]knewsom wrote:
As for China not invading their neighbors, you have to look at more than the last 100 years. [/quote]

No I don’t. China changed a lot. The China of today has very little to do with the China of even 20 years ago, much less of 100 or 2000 years ago. They change slowly, but they do change.

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Could I envision the Chinese staging a coup in NK? Totally.[/quote]

That scenario I buy.

33

oh, btw, the bible doesn’t say ‘thou shall not kill.’ It says ‘thou shall not murder.’ Big Difference.

34

[quote]BH6 wrote:
North Korea is not a legitimate threat, despite Kim Jong Il’s posturing. The nuclear weapons they have are a minor strategic threat at best.
North Korea lacks the capability to project its military power beyond its boundaries, except through its ballistic missles. Kim Jong Il is not interested in influencing the region, he is only interested in maintaining power. As the North Korea economy has collapsed, his ability to equip and train his Army has been severely reduced. Any conventional land attack on South Korea is going to lead to the destruction of his Army and to his overthrow.
A nuclear attack launched by North Korea will also lead to retalitory air attacks or nuclear strikes that will only further diminish his economy. KJI is crazy, but he isn’t crazy enough to do anything to sacrifice his hold on power.
North Korea and KJI are a threat, but not enough of a threat to warrant any action. The United States can continue to stand back and watch North Korea continue to self destruct. [/quote]

Best post in any of the Korea threads. Good job.

35

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I am waiting for all the 'tards on this site to start to blame the U.S. for this maniac’s war posturing.

“Oh, if only the U.S. were more understanding to Kim Jong (mentally) Ill.” “Oh, if we were only more liked in the world, etc.”

It is time to stop playing with these despots and it is high time to begin to take them out before they take us out![/quote]

Steveo,

Had you looked around you, you might have noticed that the US started to take out “these despots”, but it seems they are stuck at no. 1. And nobody knows why he was picked first, since there were so many other candidates.

36

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Just for the above, bomb the sites. Use nukes if necessary. No appeasement, no negotiations, no discussions. If China or anyone else objects, ignore them and keep going.

God created hell just for the leadership of NK.

Headhunter[/quote]

Have you been advising your supreme commander on how to handle Iraq by any chance?

It seems like you haven’t learned much.

37

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Steveo would lead a new Crusade and man a few beheadings if he could.

What about the beheadings in Iraq? Why didn’t you bring that up here? Sins of ommission, Professor?

I, for one, would be happy to supervise the beheading of Kim Jong-il. Hell, give me the fucking axe!! I’d pay hard money to have that. We could set up a lottery among South Koreans and Americans — would make a fortune!!

HH
[/quote]

In Dutch we have a saying that you shouldn’t sell the skin of the bear befroe you’ve shot him.
Never again was this so approriate than in this situation.

You shouldn’t set up a lottery for Kims beheading untill you’ve actually caught him.
And with your army busy in Iraq, that might pose a problem.

38

Lets take a realistic look at the situation.

NK claims they have nuclear weapons. They probably have. But not the lightweight, compact type of weapon that you can put on a missile. They probably don’t have anything they can throw out of a plane.

They can put together a nuclear device somewhere and blow it up where they built it. That’s the best they can do atm.

Also, they are TESTING long range weapons. Testing =! having. Even a succesfull test doesn’t mean they have any operational missiles.

It will take years, even after a succesfull test, to build a couple reliable missiles.

So were safe for at least 5 years so. In the mean time, the regime might implode.

China isn’t interested in NK. They are historical allies. You guys do remember the Korean wars, don’t you ? ? ? You know? M.A.S.H. ? ? ?
So they are historical allies, but they are an unwelcome friend at best atm.
China wouldn’t invade NK if the US paid them to do it. Who needs millions and millions of starving civilians to take care off after a succesfull invasion. Or did you think the Chinese would be so foolish to invade without an exit strategy? No no no, they are much smarter than that.

39

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
In Dutch we have a saying that you shouldn’t sell the skin of the bear befroe you’ve shot him.[/quote]

Actually, that’s pretty specific to Vlaanderen, I’m pretty sure that if you used that saying in, say, Noord Holland, people would look at you funny. Especially since you would say it with a Vlaamse accent.

By the way, I’m making fun of the Randstad snobs, not you. It’s pretty sad how xenophobic they’ve become in the last half a decade or so.

40

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Who needs millions and millions of starving civilians to take care off after a succesfull invasion.[/quote]

Have you been to the “inner” China? From that comment, I’m pretty sure you haven’t.

There are already about 4 billion starving civilians in China – adding the 23 million starving North Koreans would be a drop of water in the ocean. Plus it’s not like the Chinese see the North Koreans as being human. Yes, that might sound shocking to you, but I’ve had a few Chinese people admit as much.