Noah's Ark Found?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan It is quite possible there is a kernel of truth to the Noah’s Ark story.

Yes, there is: Boats do float.

To the top of a mountain?

That’s the made up part of the story.

What’s funny about those stories is that they come around every year, once or twice. That ark has been found an average of twice every three years since the 1960’s… and somehow, it’s always not quite it. Damn gopher wood, if only it glowed in the dark.

Same ark all along. It is in a militarily restricted site and Turkey rarely lets anyone look there.

You are distorting the history. Why?

Actually, a little search on Google will show that it’s not always the same site. You’ve got sites in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, etc.

I know it’s supposed to be a large boat, but it certainly won’t span multiple countries.

The “restricted military” site story sounds more like an urban legend than anything else. Maybe you should contact the guy from the article above and let him know, 'cause he’s digging in Iran.
[/quote]

The traditional site it is said to be is Mt Ararat in Turkey. It is a military restricted zone.

The Iran site is a new one on me. Now there appear to be 2 wood boats on mountains.

I wonder how they got there? As I said perhaps there is a kernel of truth to the great flood story.

22

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It’s interesting for sure. But I’m not nearly as interested in that story as I am other more prominent news.

Does it really matter?

If they proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was Noah’s Ark do you think that would convert people?

I don’t.

The doubters would simply look for a way to poke holes in the find. This has no more significance relative to converting people, than any of the other many archaeological finds which have all given “proof” that the Bible is accurate.

Change has to come from with in.
Not from an archeological find.[/quote]

i dont think it’s to convert people, i think these guys are looking for reassurance in their own beliefs.

23

[quote]Zap Branigan The traditional site it is said to be is Mt Ararat in Turkey. It is a military restricted zone.

The Iran site is a new one on me. Now there appear to be 2 wood boats on mountains.

I wonder how they got there? As I said perhaps there is a kernel of truth to the great flood story.[/quote]

All joking aside, flood stories are common enough in all mythologies from the region that there’s little doubt that at some point, the region did experience a large flood. It might have been an event similar to the tsunami of december 26th, 2004.

That might be the kernel of truth in the Noah story.

But that an ark capable of holding representatives of every species on earth for 40 days was built and filled with all those animals is simply fantasy. There are so many problems to be solved that it’s simply preposterous to even think that the tale occured in a litteral way.

24

[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan The traditional site it is said to be is Mt Ararat in Turkey. It is a military restricted zone.

The Iran site is a new one on me. Now there appear to be 2 wood boats on mountains.

I wonder how they got there? As I said perhaps there is a kernel of truth to the great flood story.

All joking aside, flood stories are common enough in all mythologies from the region that there’s little doubt that at some point, the region did experience a large flood. It might have been an event similar to the tsunami of december 26th, 2004.

That might be the kernel of truth in the Noah story.

But that an ark capable of holding representatives of every species on earth for 40 days was built and filled with all those animals is simply fantasy. There are so many problems to be solved that it’s simply preposterous to even think that the tale occured in a litteral way.
[/quote]

Not at all pookie…not at all.

Do you know how big the Ark was?

Do you know how many animals were actuallly placed in the Ark at the time?

I don’t think that you should be that quick to dismiss this as “fantasy.”

As usual you (and I) don’t really have enough details to prove this one way or the other. But to say that it COULD NOT have happened is just a tad presumptuous.

Finally, there has never been an archeological dig that has thus far contradicted a specific Bible account.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/archeology.html

Also, didn’t we have this conversation before? You and I…on this forum?

Sorry if I’m mistaken. But we each have been quite outspoken on the issue and it only makes sense.

25

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Not at all pookie…not at all.

Do you know how big the Ark was?[/quote]

Damn big. 300 cubits in length, which comes to, correct me if I’m wrong, approximately 450 feet.

Not sure about width and height, but it would’be been a BIG boat.

Larger than any wooden boat ever built since.

Not off the top of my head, no.

Let me take a moment here.

A little more.

Ok, I still dismiss it as fantasy.

I think we do have enough details to do what we could call a “feasability” anylisis.

Assuming that the current known physical laws applied at that time, and that currently known animals were pretty much similar back then (we’re talking less than 6000 years back, right?) we can calculate many estimates within a reasonable margin of error.

In fact, Noah’s Ark is one of the most easily criticized part of the Bible. It’s also one of the most discussed on that ultimate time-waster that is the internet. Just google it and see.

For a pretty complete summary of the “against” side, see: Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

I’m trust you’ll provide me with the best “for” side site.

How would a dig contradict a biblical account? Generally, the way it works is you try to find support in favor of some theory/account.

As an example, no archeological dig thus far has disproved the possible existence of Santa either.

[quote]Also, didn’t we have this conversation before? You and I…on this forum?

Sorry if I’m mistaken. But we each have been quite outspoken on the issue and it only makes sense.[/quote]

I don’t believe we ever adressed the Ark, unless only in passing while discussing other, more pressing matters. Like the (lack of) historical existence of Jesus, for example. :slight_smile:

26

[quote]pookie wrote:

How would a dig contradict a biblical account? Generally, the way it works is you try to find support in favor of some theory/account.[/quote]

That no evidence has ever disproved a Biblical claim is compelling I think. In other words, If the Bible stated that there was X amount of land called “whatever” on a specific place when unearthed it was proven correct, not to the contrary.

In all the digs and chance finds nothing was ever unearthed which was proven to be contrary to the Bible.

And yea…that was one very large boat. Why you don’t think it could have been built has to do with the fact that it is written about in the Bible. I think that if an ancient Greek document were to be found (for example) which had the dimensions of a large boat which did some amazing things you would believe it.

But whatever is written in the Bible you automatically disbelieve. You have as much faith in the opposite direction (of God) as some have toward God.

As I have said before: your faith is strong Pookie.

27

[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan The traditional site it is said to be is Mt Ararat in Turkey. It is a military restricted zone.

The Iran site is a new one on me. Now there appear to be 2 wood boats on mountains.

I wonder how they got there? As I said perhaps there is a kernel of truth to the great flood story.

All joking aside, flood stories are common enough in all mythologies from the region that there’s little doubt that at some point, the region did experience a large flood. It might have been an event similar to the tsunami of december 26th, 2004.

That might be the kernel of truth in the Noah story.

But that an ark capable of holding representatives of every species on earth for 40 days was built and filled with all those animals is simply fantasy. There are so many problems to be solved that it’s simply preposterous to even think that the tale occured in a litteral way.
[/quote]

I don’t think much in the Bible is meant to be taken literally.

The Bible is full of parables meant to give guidance on how to live life.

The divine inspiration is debatable but it is a fascinating insight into our past.

Although I don’t believe many events happened exactly as described I also believe there is some truth behind the stories.

28

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think we have problems when people start trying to prove the existance of God by looking for a really big ancient boat. If they really want to do that…find the Arc of the Covenant.[/quote]

I think you’ll find that the Arc of the Covenant was found already by famed adventurer Mr Indiana Jones. I believe it is now in a nondescript crate in a big warehouse filled with other exciting stuff.

29

[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I think we have problems when people start trying to prove the existance of God by looking for a really big ancient boat. If they really want to do that…find the Arc of the Covenant.

I think you’ll find that the Arc of the Covenant was found already by famed adventurer Mr Indiana Jones. I believe it is now in a nondescript crate in a big warehouse filled with other exciting stuff. [/quote]

I know you were joking with this, but considering Nazi Germany spent considerable effort not only looking for the arc, but also the spear that pierced Jesus’ side (believed to have been found and switched with a fake by them), it makes me wonder how some of you just write everything off as “fantasy”. The US military has done several projects into ESP and its use in warfare. I think I would have a hard time relating to someone whose mind closed at any possibility beyond what was directly in front of them.

30

[quote]Professor X wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I think we have problems when people start trying to prove the existance of God by looking for a really big ancient boat. If they really want to do that…find the Arc of the Covenant.

I think you’ll find that the Arc of the Covenant was found already by famed adventurer Mr Indiana Jones. I believe it is now in a nondescript crate in a big warehouse filled with other exciting stuff.

I know you were joking with this, but considering Nazi Germany spent considerable effort not only looking for the arc, but also the spear that pierced Jesus’ side (believed to have been found and switched with a fake by them), it makes me wonder how some of you just write everything off as “fantasy”. The US military has done several projects into ESP and its use in warfare. I think I would have a hard time relating to someone whose mind closed at any possibility beyond what was directly in front of them. [/quote]

I think that’s a fair enough statement re having a closed mind. I’d love there to be something out there. My guess though is we’ll find in Space before we find it on Earth. Just my opinion.

That said, the Nazi preoccupation with the supernatural is fascinating, although possibly to subject of way too many b-movies.

31

This thread as sparked my interest about how dillusional some people are. Out of curiosity, how many people on this site still believe in creationism? i.e. the earth is only 8000 years old, satan planted dinosaur fossils in the ground, etc etc

32

Truly an interesting find, but here’s a more likely theory than “It’s noah’s ark!”:

LONG long ago, the Rabbi of a temple saw his attendence decline, mostly due to the presence of a new tavern with topless dancers and cheeap mead, so he set off to find some old boards, etc. Secretly, and with the help of the other church elders, they build the “remnants” of “noah’s ark” high up in the mountains. They half buried it, and didn’t build it all the way to help sell the illusion that it had been there for AGES. After a spell, he put forth a plea to the villagers to help him find the lost sheep of one of the shepherds who was also a villiage elder. When they looked in the mountains, lo and behold, THEY FOUND THE ARK! HOLY CRAP! Church attendence skyrocketed, the coffers were full, etc, but eventually, it was forgotten, as were a great many things from long long ago.

and now scientists have found it. …and assumed that it’s the real mccoy.

Which do you think is more likely?

33

[quote]pookie wrote:
Assuming that the current known physical laws applied at that time, and that currently known animals were pretty much similar back then (we’re talking less than 6000 years back, right?) we can calculate many estimates within a reasonable margin of error.[/quote]

Don’t forget to take the dinosars.

34

Actually the nazi’s were looking for any items that were significant to the occult. The fact that they lost would tend to prove that the occult items provided no advantage in combat. I’ve read some on the use of ESP in both military and espionage. All the test I’ve ever read about were failures. The fact that I’ve never received any actionable intelligence from ESP sources lends weight to the fact that it is worthless. In an average day I might see 20 or so intel reports from sigint, humint, or imint. Never ESPint. If it had any value in military operations I would hope to have seen it by now.

http://www.csicop.org/
CSICOP On-line

James Randi Educational Foundation

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I know you were joking with this, but considering Nazi Germany spent considerable effort not only looking for the arc, but also the spear that pierced Jesus’ side (believed to have been found and switched with a fake by them), it makes me wonder how some of you just write everything off as “fantasy”. The US military has done several projects into ESP and its use in warfare. I think I would have a hard time relating to someone whose mind closed at any possibility beyond what was directly in front of them. [/quote]

35

Noah’s Ark is one of the few stories in the bible that is testable. The instructions are in the bible. If any christian group wanted to prove the plausability of the story, they could build an Ark, put the specified number of animals on it (depending on what chapter you read), and float it for the specified number of days.

One problem is that the Ark would be bigger that any wooden ship ever built. If anyone in history could have built a wooden ship that big they would have. They could not. Another is the care and feeding of so many animals. Many of the animals would have had very specific dietary needs and temperature requirements that would have been dificult to maintain in any way, shape, or form.

Even if they find Noah’s Ark, are you seriously suggesting that it carried every species of animal. It’s funny that the koalas made it back to Austrailia in record time. This would have included quite a swim for a koala bear. And they did so without leaving any fossil trail or remains and without eating any of their specialized food source.

They are not the only animal that would have needed a scenario this ridiculous. Even the fish would have died in such an event without devine help. Most species could not live in fresh water hundreds of feet deep for any length of time.

If God used his magic to make it all work out, why even bother with the stupid flood? He could have just used his magic to do what he wanted to do in the first place (kill bad people that he made) and skipped all the crazy drama.

Even the bullshit rainbow story doesn’t pass the common sense test. Why would god have to promise not to destroy his creation with a flood anymore and why would he do it with something that would have had to have been part of the physical world already? Rainbows happen because of the physics of white light refraction. Did god change this after the flood. Now explaining that would have made for a good bible story.

Besides, even if it were a huge wooden ship from the correct time period. I would still have no reason to belive in any other part of the story. The Odyssey told of a war in the city of Troy. For a long time everyone thought Troy was a mythical place. It turns out there really was a city of Troy. Does this mean I should belive in the Greek Panthion? No! Of course the people who wrote the bible wrote about real places and things. They just made up all of the parts that involved god.

No Answers in Genesis

http://bob.nap.edu/readingroom/books/creationism/index.html
Science and Creationism

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Also the bible says the ark landed in the mountains of arat, not on mount arat. No one has any clue where the mountains of arat were. Hence the global search.

“God or Zues, please correct any spelling or grammatical errors in this post through your devine providence”

36

[quote]Flop Hat wrote:
Noah’s Ark is one of the few stories in the bible that is testable. The instructions are in the bible. If any christian group wanted to prove the plausability of the story, they could build an Ark, put the specified number of animals on it (depending on what chapter you read), and float it for the specified number of days.[/quote]

That would be the most freakin’ awesome thing ever in the history of the world. Well, since the original Noah’s ark, which never existed.

But I would put up my own money for a man and his sons to build a 450 ft wooden boat by hand and stock it with every animal on the earth (7 of each, right? Not just pairs.)

Obviously, we’d have to trap them and take them to the boat since they wouldn’t be under any magic spell to make them walk aboard, all tame-like. But we could do that.

Plus, we’ll get some dinosaurs, like out of Pee Wee’s Big Adventure. Or out of some of those creationists’ theme parks.

I think Christians should start ponying up money right now for this experiment. If it worked, just think how many people would be led to Judiasm… uh, Jesus… or Mohammed. Or Mormonism.

The point is, like the animals, they’d be led somewhere, dammit!

Uh, dude, light did not refract before the flood. That’s so obvious, I don’t even think the Christians have to explain that one to you.

37

[quote]futuredave wrote:
Flop Hat wrote:
Noah’s Ark is one of the few stories in the bible that is testable. The instructions are in the bible. If any christian group wanted to prove the plausability of the story, they could build an Ark, put the specified number of animals on it (depending on what chapter you read), and float it for the specified number of days.

That would be the most freakin’ awesome thing ever in the history of the world. Well, since the original Noah’s ark, which never existed.

But I would put up my own money for a man and his sons to build a 450 ft wooden boat by hand and stock it with every animal on the earth (7 of each, right? Not just pairs.)

Obviously, we’d have to trap them and take them to the boat since they wouldn’t be under any magic spell to make them walk aboard, all tame-like. But we could do that.

Plus, we’ll get some dinosaurs, like out of Pee Wee’s Big Adventure. Or out of some of those creationists’ theme parks.

I think Christians should start ponying up money right now for this experiment. If it worked, just think how many people would be led to Judiasm… uh, Jesus… or Mohammed. Or Mormonism.

The point is, like the animals, they’d be led somewhere, dammit!

Even the bullshit rainbow story doesn’t pass the common sense test… Rainbows happen because of the physics of white light refraction.

Uh, dude, light did not refract before the flood. That’s so obvious, I don’t even think the Christians have to explain that one to you.

[/quote]

The Bible also says “all things are possible with the Lord.”

If God wanted an Ark built of that size and type I can’t imagine him not getting it done. He did make the Universe you know.

Unless of course you’re an atheist and you don’t believe in God. Then I can understand you not believing anything about the Ark.

I guess it matters not what the title of the (Christian) thread is, it always comes down to faith in God, or lack of faith.

No surprises here.

38

I STILL want to know how scientists say they’re planning on figuring out if this is the real deal of an old hoax.

39

[quote]knewsom wrote:
I STILL want to know how scientists say they’re planning on figuring out if this is the real deal of an old hoax.[/quote]

They will compare the VIN number on the boat to the VIN number in the Bible. If it matches, viola!

40

Oh man, they’re copping out already. Bummer.