Your original thyroid labs indicated a problem. You have taken 700mg iodine and you should have seen some progress by now. Do not know what to do other than suggest another thyroid panel. You can go to na iodine maintenance dose, 6.25 mg once a week.
E2 is still an unknown.
Can you talk about your calorie balance?
Past month or so I have been averaging about 2200 calories or less per day split 40 % carb 30% protein and fat. This worked well for on the past in terms of energy to train, weight management , and overall energy. Not working as well since starting T cream. I have found another Doc and scheduling app today. Will def get him to order full thyroid panel along with other basics per sticky. Has anyone used OTC Armotase inhibitor type products? I suspect E2 is high but most recent blood test is 6 wks ago borderline then.
I have stopped the use of T cream for the past two weeks and can honestly say I have not seen any difference in my symptoms. Libido seems to be better off than on though my energy and motivation to train is diminished. I have found another doc who seems to follow a similar protocol as described here. Will see what he says. I have noticed that oral temps still seem to be low as most days dont reach 98 by mid day. Will ask doc to run thyroid labs and hormone labs. Anything elsed I should consider? Cannot drop weight. been weight training 4 days a weeks and eating 2100 calories or less daily. About 30/30/40 fat / carb / protein.
Estradiol of 32 is not too high. It is about average for a young man, as you can see from this article showing a mean serum level of estradiol for males 18-27 to be 32.37 pg/ml
or this graph showing estradiol levels by age.
or from this graph showing estradiol levels in healthy young men before and after administering aromasin:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/88/12/5951/F1.expansion.html
Sufficient levels of estradiol are beneficial for cadiovascular health, bones health, brain health, blood lipids, and libido. Estradiol is absolutely necessary for good health in men, despite all the scaremongering. The idea that estradiol should be in the low 20s is an internet myth.
The stats on E2 with age does not mean that the data implies that and age specific levels are optimal. In fact, such data reflects pathologies in the sample group as well. And in the seen ranges of E2, is there an effort to determine which levels are associated with better scores in terms of waist size, libido, energy and mood?
You found some interesting data, but I can’t see how any of it supports your point of view.
No one is suggesting elimination of E2, only a ratio of T:E where men self report that they feel better. I felt better going from E2=28–>22 and first started from E2=37 which was ruining my life, all while TT was near 1000.
Is something an internet myth just because you want to say it is? Many have agreed that somewhere near E2=22pg/ml is optimal. What do you suggest is optimal?
Ksman you make sense in all your posts. Not sure what Seekonk was really trying to say. I know I don’t feel like I should and I believe that E2 is playing a role though I think the bigger issue is thyroid or adrenal. Goal is to figure out which on Friday with more labs. Currently I have been off all T for three weeks and actually feel better with mood, but still little motivation to train , brain fog and memory issues, libido is up and down. Can’t drop weight easily like years past. Plan is to have full thyroid panel along with whatever Doc wants to run on This coming Friday.
Hey Mac79,
You’re seeing Dr. Goldman is that correct?
Badrad123
Yes I originally saw Dr G. He put me on compounded cream and would not even consider injections. Last time I saw him just before thanksgiving he increased my cream dose and said come back in 6 months. Did not want to talk about anything else as my triglycerides were high and told me to see primary Doc for that. I am not sure I will go back to him. I continued his cream through the holidays and stopped about two weeks ago cold turkey. Funny thing is I don’t feel much different off the cream verses on. I have recently made an appt with Dr Snyder but have not seen him. My plan was to see if I could get him to work with me on he protocol listed here. What is your impression on him? My insurance won’t cover either one though I do get good discount on labs. Ideally would like to find somebody to rx the protocol here. Any info you have is greatly appreciated.
Yea, last time I saw Dr. G was in mid-November and he wrote me a script for 6 months of Test Cyp but wouldn’t consider the adex or HCG. He also told me to come back in 6 months for tests and I’m wondering if I will. I like him but he is not very flexible and does tend to ramble a bit. I started to see Dr. Snyder and he does offer the Test cyp + adex+HCG.
The only problem is he likes to have the nurse give you the shots in the office for the first couple of weeks to see how you do. I was able to get him to let me do my own. On your first visit if he has your blood test and everything looks okay for treatment then he will probably offer you the protocol.
During my first visit I explained to him that I was injecting Subq and he didn’t really believe that would work.I think he is probaly a beleiver now after my most recent blood tests. He is flexible and would probably let you self inject from the start. I tried the hcg and it did wonders for my sense of well being for about a day but then it seemed to really jack up my T or E2, not sure which since I didn’t get a blood test while on it.
I have an appointment tomorrow so I’ll probably try the HCG again at a lower dose. As far as insurance, i have aetna and both locations accept it, which is a plus for me.
Good luck and keep me posted.
Badrad123,
Saw dr Snyder today much better than Dr G. I took a copy of all my recent blood and they started me on their protocol. They more labs and I will see him again next week where I hope he will allow me to self inject. My goal is to get him to Rx the protocol as I can’t afford to keep it up at his prices. I have a high deductible so everything is out of pocket until I hit 3 k. I appreciate your help hopefully it will work out.
Good luck and let me know how it goes.
Some new labs which confirm that the cream was somewhat effective though E2 also became an issue. These labs were taken a week ago at mid morning. I had been of T cream for three weeks and only taking supplements multivitamin daily
2500mmg b 12
1400 mg fish oil
250 mg magnesium
12.5 mg iodine
25 mg DHEA
5000iu vit d
Labs
TT 289 ( 348-1197)
FT 9.6 (8.7-25.1)
LH3.7(1.7-8.6)
FH 4.8 (1.5-12.4)
E2 24.3 (7.8-42.6)
Hemoglobin 17.1(12.6-17.7)
Hematocrit 48.4(37.5-51)
Doc screwed up and did not order thyroid labs. So will have to wait for those. Not sure what to make of things. I think Ksman hit on the head. It appears that my thyroid cannot handle the added metabolic demand with T. I have not been able to find a doc that will rx the protocol but now it appears I need someone who understands Thyroid as well in the Atlanta area. As bigas this city is there has to be somebody. Anybody know somebody? I have to come out of pocket for everything which is why I prefer rx for home use as it is cheapest.
At last found Doc to Rx protocol similar to what Ksman suggests. Just started a wk ago. Protocol as follows. Test Cy and Prop compounded together. 100mgCyp and 25 mg prop twice a wk. 300iu HCG twice a wk and .5 mg anastrozol three time a wk. Firts two pins in right glute w 1.5 25g and third pin in right quad w 1" 25 g.
My leg feels like it was kicked by a horse. No redness , swelling or warmup touch just extreme soreness. Is this to be expected? How long before things start to kick in? Have been all over the place. Moods and overall Being has gone from nausea to on top of the world. Any suggestions ?
You Inject 100 mg plus 2 times a week? This is to much… Read the protocol for Injections sticky and if your having problems with injections ask if you can switch to subcutaneous injections. Much safer as far as hitting veins and nerves and no need to poke all those holes in your muscles
Are you cleaning the injection site?
Are you cleaning the top of the bottle?
What are you using to clean and are u scrubbing or whipping.
I only had pain one time ever.
U should use a new wipes for everything if u ask me.
I think I remember hearing prop stings like a bitch. Look up chrislers injection video on you tube I’m pretty sure he says it himself
Use alcohol wipe to clean top of bottle and injection site. I wash hands first then wipe bottle make up injections then wipe w same wipe injection site.
After reading it 125mg per injection is a lot. Have to admit was to siked to have found a Doc that was on board w injection. I am def a newbie when it comes to injections will re read the sticky. I have heard some call it virgin muscle but this is worse than any cortisone or tetanus I’ve ever had.
Are you mixing the two together?
Tell the doctor you would like to try cypionate only.
No need for this shit and cypionate doesn’t hurt.
Tried heating pad and 800mg of Advil last night seemed better this morning. Very sore this afternoon. Have call in to Doc have not heard back prolly won’t til am. Not sure how an abscess presents itself but beginning to wonder. Going to hold off on injections until I get this figured out.
Hey Mac79,
Glad you finally found a doc. I’m still seeing Goldman but starting to look for another. Do you mind sharing the Dr? Thanks!
Bad, I bit the bullet and saw Dr Smith as suggested in the other thread. Still not sure what meds will cost. I took copies of all my labs so didn’t need much there. I called them several times playing dumb and asking questions. May be pricy at the start but I think it will pan out in the end.
Thanks! I’ve actually been thinking about seeing that Dr. since it’s pretty close to me. Only drawback for me was the insurance part. I think my insurance will cover some of the cost but not much. I might give this a try after my next follow up with Dr. Goldman.
Good luck and keep us updated. It’s tough finding a good trt doc in this area.