No Child support !! If You Have a Penis

Off Topic
41

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Thankfully, my friend was granted full physical custody and final decision on everything. [/quote]

And the above about sums up the female perspective on these things.
[/quote]

Well, when there is a threat that he can kidnap the kids back to Africa, it is a very good thing! Besides, he was never around to be a dad, always working. Never took vacations with her and the kids. She was a married “single” parent. He only started being an active dad when she moved out, took the kids, and filed for divorce.

But I also have a male friend who can’t get custody of his kid to save his life. The mother even disappeared with her for 3 months to California. There’s been evidence of “light” child abuse and neglect (the girl could wear the same clothes at age 6 as at age 4, had lice numerous times so bad she had to have her head shaved), but in MI the child belongs with the mother so he’s screwed. I think the courts finally decided to give him six months and the mother six months. The girl (who is 10 now) wants to be with my friend full time, but again, in MI the child belongs with the mother.

42

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
for all the females on this thread who have a story about a mom getting worked over in the family courts after a divorce, cry me a river and give me a fucking break.

for every one of those stories there is over 100 that goes the other way.

I lived this, and did tons of research, the fact is that not just the majority of times, but the VAST majority of time, fathers get a raw deal in family court.

a father’s role in the development of the child is thrown out the window and the father is reduced to just an financial asset for the divorce attorneys and the mom to seize.

I am going to bow out of this thread now, I am sure somebody will add their two cents about how moms get worked too, well, fuck that.

it happens way, way more often to dads, and it is a very emotional and touchy subject to me.

I know in my heart that I am a better parent than my ex, and I know my girls would be thriving if they lived with me full time.

but because I have a penis, the cards were stacked against me all the time.\

my ex came busting into my house while the kids were with me during my legal time with them and literally, literally RIPPED my 2 year old from my arms, if I had not let go of her, her arms probabley would have been dislocated.

I called the police, and they told me that it sucked, but if anyone was going to jail it was me, because: “I just cant hand cuff these little girls mommy and take her away in front of them sir, sorry”

went through 3 attorneys, because each one I felt was not trying hard enough to get me either joint physical custody, until the last one was frank with me,

'unless you have video of mom doing crack IN FRONT of the kids, you are going to get visitation and have to pay child support, I will be glad to take a lot of money from you, but that is how it will end up regardless"

so I will post no more on this subject, say whatever you want, but I know I am right, and I feel myself getting angry and fighting back tears just thinking about this stuff again.

Dads, do not take ONE FUCKING MINUTE you have with your kids for granted, because it can be taken from you much easier than you think.

carry on…[/quote]

My intention was in no way to diminish how the system is stacked against men. Custody generally goes to the mother for no other reason than customary. My point is once custody is established, however it is, it is stacked against the non-custodial parent.

43

[quote]Amiright wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
My friend just got divorced and went thru a custody battle. The reason she filed for divorce? He wasn’t participating in the family and being an active parent. She moves out of the house and all of a sudden he wants to be World’s Best Dad and spend time with the kids. When at his house the kids (3 of them under 5) cannot go outside, cannot do after school activities, cannot have friends over, they must do something inside with him. Now these kids have been everywhere, and are extremely active. I can’t imagine what they think when they go to their dad’s and have to stay inside. Thankfully, my friend was granted full physical custody and final decision on everything. He gets them every other Thursday-Monday, and alternating Wednesdays. The thing is: he’s Muslim, from Senegal. If he decided to take the kids there and then move back there, my friend would not be able to get them back. Kind of like that Sally Field movie “Not Without My Daughter.”[/quote]

Whats being Muslim have to do with the issue? [/quote]

Nothing. I guess I just should have said that he’s from Senegal.

44

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Not to take away from men’s predicaments, but my sister in Texas is getting screwed by her husband who got custody and gets child support, and because he gets free legal for being a fireman, takes her to court regularly for more child support if he hears from his kids that she might have gotten a raise. He also took the kids out of the country with out telling my sister where (which is illegal) and denies my sister visitation. My sister cannot afford the legal fees of trying to fight him on this in court.[/quote]

Well then your sister is acquainted with the suffering usually reserved for men.[/quote]

I, nor I think she, would disagree. My point is once custody is established is appears to be rather one-sided legal process. If the system is to be made fair than it cannot be a mother v. father issue, but fair to all the parents involved.[/quote]

This does seem to be the case, at least in all the posts I’ve read in the numerous threads on this subject. It’s too bad the situation about your sister. The part about the kids leaving the country without her knowledge is scary. I know personally if I was in her shoes I’d go into debt to have the kids passport held by a trustee, if the ex cannot be reasoned with over this point. When I travel to the states with my daughter, we have to present a document along with the passport that states her father is aware that we are leaving Canada, and the duration of the visit.

Maybe I just had an easy divorce, but it seems there is a lot of problems with custody issues in the US. Where I live, joint custody is assumed and if both parties are agreeable to that it’s the end of the story. If a woman wants full custody and the father wants joint, she will have to prove that he is not fit to assume it. Of course, I imagine that if both want full custody, some lawyers will profit. Working out the terms of my divorce was not fun, we were both angry and both felt entitlement to certain things, but in the end neither of us wanted to make some lawyers richer and we both wanted what was best for out kid (not saying any of you guys who got the shaft didn’t want this either). I guess I just feel like I’m in the minority of having things work out well, and that disturbs me.

45

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Thankfully, my friend was granted full physical custody and final decision on everything. [/quote]

And the above about sums up the female perspective on these things.
[/quote]

Well, when there is a threat that he can kidnap the kids back to Africa, it is a very good thing! Besides, he was never around to be a dad, always working. Never took vacations with her and the kids. She was a married “single” parent. He only started being an active dad when she moved out, took the kids, and filed for divorce.

But I also have a male friend who can’t get custody of his kid to save his life. The mother even disappeared with her for 3 months to California. There’s been evidence of “light” child abuse and neglect (the girl could wear the same clothes at age 6 as at age 4, had lice numerous times so bad she had to have her head shaved), but in MI the child belongs with the mother so he’s screwed. I think the courts finally decided to give him six months and the mother six months. The girl (who is 10 now) wants to be with my friend full time, but again, in MI the child belongs with the mother. [/quote]

Any parent can kidnap a child. There shouldn’t be this presumption against this man because he’s from another country. Did he threaten such?

You have just described most working families which is just an unfortunate reality. Men work. It happens. Along the way, some men regrettably shift much parenting to the mom. Have you ever made a mistake that you wanted to do over? Ever lose something and wanted to do it different?

So, if I understand your logic, because he worked and shifted much of the parenting to the wife, now that they are apart, he should not be considered for custody? Does that about sum it up? If so, no wonder men can’t get primary physical custody.

Isn’t this a form of sexism? Isn’t it downright overt? Where are the bra burners and the ball busters demanding that they be treated “equally” in family court?

46

[quote]dianab wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Not to take away from men’s predicaments, but my sister in Texas is getting screwed by her husband who got custody and gets child support, and because he gets free legal for being a fireman, takes her to court regularly for more child support if he hears from his kids that she might have gotten a raise. He also took the kids out of the country with out telling my sister where (which is illegal) and denies my sister visitation. My sister cannot afford the legal fees of trying to fight him on this in court.[/quote]

Well then your sister is acquainted with the suffering usually reserved for men.[/quote]

I, nor I think she, would disagree. My point is once custody is established is appears to be rather one-sided legal process. If the system is to be made fair than it cannot be a mother v. father issue, but fair to all the parents involved.[/quote]

This does seem to be the case, at least in all the posts I’ve read in the numerous threads on this subject. It’s too bad the situation about your sister. The part about the kids leaving the country without her knowledge is scary. I know personally if I was in her shoes I’d go into debt to have the kids passport held by a trustee, if the ex cannot be reasoned with over this point. When I travel to the states with my daughter, we have to present a document along with the passport that states her father is aware that we are leaving Canada, and the duration of the visit.

Maybe I just had an easy divorce, but it seems there is a lot of problems with custody issues in the US. Where I live, joint custody is assumed and if both parties are agreeable to that it’s the end of the story. If a woman wants full custody and the father wants joint, she will have to prove that he is not fit to assume it. Of course, I imagine that if both want full custody, some lawyers will profit. Working out the terms of my divorce was not fun, we were both angry and both felt entitlement to certain things, but in the end neither of us wanted to make some lawyers richer and we both wanted what was best for out kid (not saying any of you guys who got the shaft didn’t want this either). I guess I just feel like I’m in the minority of having things work out well, and that disturbs me. [/quote]

The kids are older (teenagers, one nearly 18) and she is letting them make the decision on how much they want to see her. She is not happy but she is trying to respect her kids wishes on the subject.

Her husband has a son with who he has nearly the same custody structure and my sister does with her kids, but it is far less stressful. The boy comes and goes as he pleases. I think the people involved make a big difference in how custody functions.

However, having talked to many people who have gone through divorce, one this that stands out is how women are told to go after everything they can and to fight dirty. There seems to be the assumption, both in legal culture and regular culture, that the men are to blame for a failed marriage and needs to be punished.

47

I think that assumption comes from the assumption that men will naturally fight dirty so a woman has to fight dirtier. I think it also comes from when women didn’t have lives of their own, so to get any money they had to rip the guy to shreds. I always got the feeling that the system thinks men are smarter and women are dumb so the way to combat that is to take the guy for anything and everything she can get.

48

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Thankfully, my friend was granted full physical custody and final decision on everything. [/quote]

And the above about sums up the female perspective on these things.
[/quote]

Well, when there is a threat that he can kidnap the kids back to Africa, it is a very good thing! Besides, he was never around to be a dad, always working. Never took vacations with her and the kids. She was a married “single” parent. He only started being an active dad when she moved out, took the kids, and filed for divorce.[/quote]

Wait…so a workaholic who is providing the lifestyle for his family that I am sure they enjoyed is now villainized for it as if he left his family?

Think about this…when I was in school, had I been married, I am sure “the wife” would have been able to say the same thing. The only way for it to work is some understanding of the work involved to achieve what I wanted.

My point is, unless he CHANGED during their marriage and went from care free to workaholic, she knew what she was getting into and then later took him to the cleaners over it.

It sounds like we are only getting one shady side of this story and I am betting if we heard his it would sound WAY different.

[quote]
But I also have a male friend who can’t get custody of his kid to save his life. The mother even disappeared with her for 3 months to California. There’s been evidence of “light” child abuse and neglect (the girl could wear the same clothes at age 6 as at age 4, had lice numerous times so bad she had to have her head shaved), but in MI the child belongs with the mother so he’s screwed. I think the courts finally decided to give him six months and the mother six months. The girl (who is 10 now) wants to be with my friend full time, but again, in MI the child belongs with the mother. [/quote]

…and that sucks.

49

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
I think that assumption comes from the assumption that men will naturally fight dirty so a woman has to fight dirtier. I think it also comes from when women didn’t have lives of their own, so to get any money they had to rip the guy to shreds. I always got the feeling that the system thinks men are smarter and women are dumb so the way to combat that is to take the guy for anything and everything she can get. [/quote]

Well, it sure doesn’t seem like too many women are losing any sleep over being branded that way.

50

I need to clear a few things up in regards to my own situation. Ive had full custody of my two boys for 7 years. Now at the beginning of my divorce I was more then willing to try joint custody . But when the abuse occurred with my youngest son it was over. For the record I had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the bastard. The only bright side was it was the opening which allowed me to get a bid for custody. Since my ex wife is to self centered and selfish and was more concerned about her boyfriend then the well being of her own children. I found it wasnt hard to get her to sign over custody . I know compared to others , ive had it pretty easy.

    But the fact remains as a male who has been faced with the whole custody issue. I agree with most that has been posted . Even if the laws are written to be fair for both parties involved . They tend to be trumped by pre existing bias .
51

[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
I need to clear a few things up in regards to my own situation. Ive had full custody of my two boys for 7 years. Now at the beginning of my divorce I was more then willing to try joint custody . But when the abuse occurred with my youngest son it was over. For the record I had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the bastard. The only bright side was it was the opening which allowed me to get a bid for custody. Since my ex wife is to self centered and selfish and was more concerned about her boyfriend then the well being of her own children. I found it wasnt hard to get her to sign over custody . I know compared to others , ive had it pretty easy.

    But the fact remains as a male who has been faced with the whole custody issue. I agree with most that has been posted . Even if the laws are written to be fair for both parties involved . They tend to be trumped by pre existing bias . [/quote]

Well I am glad that your kid was removed from an abusive situation, for sure. I’m confused why you spent the weekend in jail though. Sorry for being nosy, but my bf was recently divorced in Indiana, and I’ve learned a bit about how family law works there but not everything. Was it the state who took action against you and if they are aware that she owes money, why have they not gone after her?

52

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]dianab wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Not to take away from men’s predicaments, but my sister in Texas is getting screwed by her husband who got custody and gets child support, and because he gets free legal for being a fireman, takes her to court regularly for more child support if he hears from his kids that she might have gotten a raise. He also took the kids out of the country with out telling my sister where (which is illegal) and denies my sister visitation. My sister cannot afford the legal fees of trying to fight him on this in court.[/quote]

Well then your sister is acquainted with the suffering usually reserved for men.[/quote]

I, nor I think she, would disagree. My point is once custody is established is appears to be rather one-sided legal process. If the system is to be made fair than it cannot be a mother v. father issue, but fair to all the parents involved.[/quote]

This does seem to be the case, at least in all the posts I’ve read in the numerous threads on this subject. It’s too bad the situation about your sister. The part about the kids leaving the country without her knowledge is scary. I know personally if I was in her shoes I’d go into debt to have the kids passport held by a trustee, if the ex cannot be reasoned with over this point. When I travel to the states with my daughter, we have to present a document along with the passport that states her father is aware that we are leaving Canada, and the duration of the visit.

Maybe I just had an easy divorce, but it seems there is a lot of problems with custody issues in the US. Where I live, joint custody is assumed and if both parties are agreeable to that it’s the end of the story. If a woman wants full custody and the father wants joint, she will have to prove that he is not fit to assume it. Of course, I imagine that if both want full custody, some lawyers will profit. Working out the terms of my divorce was not fun, we were both angry and both felt entitlement to certain things, but in the end neither of us wanted to make some lawyers richer and we both wanted what was best for out kid (not saying any of you guys who got the shaft didn’t want this either). I guess I just feel like I’m in the minority of having things work out well, and that disturbs me. [/quote]

The kids are older (teenagers, one nearly 18) and she is letting them make the decision on how much they want to see her. She is not happy but she is trying to respect her kids wishes on the subject.

Her husband has a son with who he has nearly the same custody structure and my sister does with her kids, but it is far less stressful. The boy comes and goes as he pleases. I think the people involved make a big difference in how custody functions.

However, having talked to many people who have gone through divorce, one this that stands out is how women are told to go after everything they can and to fight dirty. There seems to be the assumption, both in legal culture and regular culture, that the men are to blame for a failed marriage and needs to be punished.[/quote]

This is true, I initiated the divorce proceeding and hired a lawyer. She had a laundry list of what I was entitled to take from my ex, including hefty CS payments. We had been separated 3 years at the time though, and had already worked out how things were going to be. The lawyer did try to get me to take him to the cleaners. I’m just thankful that at the time of our separation neither of us could afford the divorce fees because who knows what may have happened if I had seen her feeling pissed, hurt, guilty and all the other range of emotions one goes through when in the middle of ending a bad marriage. The lawyer did not imply blame, her logic was based on math: he made twice as much as I did, had a nice retirement fund etc. If I had have gone through with her plan he would have hated me forever, and there is no way I could see parenting my kid for the next decade or so with a person who hated me. Plus I am able to take care of myself.

53

[quote]dianab wrote:

[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
I need to clear a few things up in regards to my own situation. Ive had full custody of my two boys for 7 years. Now at the beginning of my divorce I was more then willing to try joint custody . But when the abuse occurred with my youngest son it was over. For the record I had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the bastard. The only bright side was it was the opening which allowed me to get a bid for custody. Since my ex wife is to self centered and selfish and was more concerned about her boyfriend then the well being of her own children. I found it wasnt hard to get her to sign over custody . I know compared to others , ive had it pretty easy.

    But the fact remains as a male who has been faced with the whole custody issue. I agree with most that has been posted . Even if the laws are written to be fair for both parties involved . They tend to be trumped by pre existing bias . [/quote]

Well I am glad that your kid was removed from an abusive situation, for sure. I’m confused why you spent the weekend in jail though. Sorry for being nosy, but my bf was recently divorced in Indiana, and I’ve learned a bit about how family law works there but not everything. Was it the state who took action against you and if they are aware that she owes money, why have they not gone after her?[/quote]

No no no. I didnt spend the weekend in jail. A guy I know did for being $ 500 behind. My main beef is why this guy I know spend the weekend in jail . While my ex is $ 20,000 in the hole and its overlooked.

54

[quote]optheta wrote:
I suggest all young T-Nation Bachelors not come into this thread if you want to get married lol. I just did and its depressing lol[/quote]

Fosho.

Imma start drafting a pre-nup… and a pre-nup for any potential sons I might have…

55

[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
I suggest all young T-Nation Bachelors not come into this thread if you want to get married lol. I just did and its depressing lol[/quote]

Fosho.

Imma start drafting a pre-nup… and a pre-nup for any potential sons I might have…[/quote]

This is smart

56

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
I think that assumption comes from the assumption that men will naturally fight dirty so a woman has to fight dirtier. I think it also comes from when women didn’t have lives of their own, so to get any money they had to rip the guy to shreds. I always got the feeling that the system thinks men are smarter and women are dumb so the way to combat that is to take the guy for anything and everything she can get. [/quote]

smfh

57

[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
I need to clear a few things up in regards to my own situation. Ive had full custody of my two boys for 7 years. Now at the beginning of my divorce I was more then willing to try joint custody . But when the abuse occurred with my youngest son it was over. For the record I had to be restrained from beating the hell out of the bastard. The only bright side was it was the opening which allowed me to get a bid for custody. Since my ex wife is to self centered and selfish and was more concerned about her boyfriend then the well being of her own children. I found it wasnt hard to get her to sign over custody . I know compared to others , ive had it pretty easy.

    But the fact remains as a male who has been faced with the whole custody issue. I agree with most that has been posted . Even if the laws are written to be fair for both parties involved . They tend to be trumped by pre existing bias . [/quote]

I aint talking shit here, but there would have been no restraining me. I would have been going to jail that day. And from jail, after calling my lawyer and otherwise getting bailed out, my second call would be to any number of friends to give the boyfriend an emergency room beating. If a motherfucker puts his hands on my son, I will put my hands on him before the sun rises the next day.

58

[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
I suggest all young T-Nation Bachelors not come into this thread if you want to get married lol. I just did and its depressing lol[/quote]

Fosho.

Imma start drafting a pre-nup… and a pre-nup for any potential sons I might have…[/quote]

That’s called a “parental agreement”, and unlike prenups they don’t hold up very well if one of the parties decides to dispute it. Basically because where a prenup has 2 parties, and the stipulations of the contract affect only the interests of those 2 parties, a parental agreement affects party C (the kids) who’s legal interests are basically unrepresented at the signing of the contract. Everything has to pass the “Best interests of the child” test in court, and if the judge decides your parental agreement isn’t fair to them (as would be the case if child support deviated significantly from the norm) they throw it out. Keep in mind here that the “best interests of the child” is a misleading legal term, not the common sense term some might believe it to be.

That’s not to say you shouldn’t have one - you most certainly should. Just know that it won’t neccesarily protect you the way you might like when things get tough and push comes to shove.

59

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Thankfully, my friend was granted full physical custody and final decision on everything. [/quote]

And the above about sums up the female perspective on these things.
[/quote]

Well, when there is a threat that he can kidnap the kids back to Africa, it is a very good thing! Besides, he was never around to be a dad, always working. Never took vacations with her and the kids. She was a married “single” parent. He only started being an active dad when she moved out, took the kids, and filed for divorce.

But I also have a male friend who can’t get custody of his kid to save his life. The mother even disappeared with her for 3 months to California. There’s been evidence of “light” child abuse and neglect (the girl could wear the same clothes at age 6 as at age 4, had lice numerous times so bad she had to have her head shaved), but in MI the child belongs with the mother so he’s screwed. I think the courts finally decided to give him six months and the mother six months. The girl (who is 10 now) wants to be with my friend full time, but again, in MI the child belongs with the mother. [/quote]

Any parent can kidnap a child. There shouldn’t be this presumption against this man because he’s from another country. Did he threaten such?

You have just described most working families which is just an unfortunate reality. Men work. It happens. Along the way, some men regrettably shift much parenting to the mom. Have you ever made a mistake that you wanted to do over? Ever lose something and wanted to do it different?

So, if I understand your logic, because he worked and shifted much of the parenting to the wife, now that they are apart, he should not be considered for custody? Does that about sum it up? If so, no wonder men can’t get primary physical custody.

Isn’t this a form of sexism? Isn’t it downright overt? Where are the bra burners and the ball busters demanding that they be treated “equally” in family court?[/quote]

No, that is not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is she might as well have been single. He didn’t participate in ANYTHING. They could have been roommates, for all the participating he did. He can’t, all of a sudden, decide he wants to be a dad, just because she left and took the kids. He had his chance to be a dad and he fucked it up.

60

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

No, that is not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is she might as well have been single. He didn’t participate in ANYTHING. They could have been roommates, for all the participating he did. He can’t, all of a sudden, decide he wants to be a dad, just because she left and took the kids. He had his chance to be a dad and he fucked it up.[/quote]

My question is how do you know how much some other guy participated privately in his own kid’s life? I mean BESIDES hearsay. Further, if he was the bread winner, why would you hold his long hours against him? Was the wife willing to accept a change in lifestyle and less pay for him to be home more?