New Iraqi Strategy

JeffR · May 17, 2007, 7:22pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
You are doing it again. You know full well that I have one HELL OF A LOT more.

A hell of a lot more of the same old crap. Last time, you cited articles that counted empty canisters and rusted out warheads as threats. Maybe if you cut yourself on them and catch tetanus…

This is just another example refuting directly the nonsense that saddam wouldn’t have used wmd against America.

You had to bring American troops in his back yard for him to do it. And all he managed was “low-level exposure.” He didn’t have ICBMs, nor any other high-tech mean of sending it to America, and if you’re thinking about shipping containers, you’d do better to beef up security at your ports.

If Iran can sneak weapons to Hezbollah under Mossad’s nose, getting anything inside your wide-open transparent borders is a piece of cake. Easy as muffin, you could say.

You want more security? Start there.

You live in a province that has a number of people who truly believe that saddam was contained, a paper tiger, and wasn’t in leaque with terrorists. Further, your pals believe that he couldn’t and wouldn’t take the risks associated with attacking the U.S. with nerve gas.

What has where I live got to do with it? Are your shortsighted views mandated by your city or state? Where you from? North Dumbkota?

“He wouldn’t be that stupid” and other such nonsense.

Even if he was (which he wasn’t when we was your most bestest best buddy in the region, in the 80s) that’s what “contained” means. Whatever threat he presented, was not effectively implementable. All he could do was make dumb chickenshits afraid.

Walk outside, grab a quebecois and test my theory.

Just a minute…

He says you’re and idiot.

What saddam using sarin against Americans shows quite clearly that he was willing and able to attack the Americans using these nefarious methods.

Well containment does not work as well when you go and march your army inside the container, now does it?

And even then, all you got was “low-level exposure” that required 17 years for its effect to be recognized. Terrifying, no?

Therfore, intent, history, patterns of behavior, equals unacceptable danger.

Right. Go vandalize a Honda.
[/quote]

pookie,

I’m sorry. I just have trouble with people who cannot connect these dots.

It surprises me how far you will go to excuse this dictator’s crimes (hiding weaponery, gassing our soldiers and his people, firing on our planes, bribing the u.n., and arming and supporting terrorism). Couple that with your castigation of Bush in the harshest terms and it’s hard to take you too seriously.

Anyway, you knew all this and I get the feeling that you are just trying to irritate.

Oh, tell your quebecois friends that I can’t think of a much lower status than being pseudo-french. Say it nicely as tone counts more than content in your world.

Thanks,

JeffR

JeffR · May 17, 2007, 7:24pm

[quote]ren wrote:
JeffR wrote:
What saddam using sarin against Americans shows quite clearly that he was willing and able to attack the Americans using these nefarious methods.
JeffR

aaahhhhhh, then why didn’t he? (the 2nd time we paid him a major visit that is).[/quote]

Hey, troll.

Maybe he did.

Think it through.

If he did, would you man up and admit that you are sad?

I doubt it.

JeffR

pookie · May 17, 2007, 7:44pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
I’m sorry. I just have trouble with people who cannot connect these dots.[/quote]

The problem is that those dots are the positive and negative poles on a shit bomb and when you connect them, it blows up in your face.

Where have I excused his crimes? I didn’t say you should give him an official pardon and the keys to Detroit (although I believe you did give him those keys at some point…) I’m saying that the Iraq war was the wrong solution to a nearly non-problem.

You want to solve problems using war? Then make sure you’re willing to wage war properly and do what’s needed to win.

Can’t do that? Or won’t? Fine, but find some other way of resolving situations.

What can I say? Bush bungles a lot of stuff. He’s very good at clearing brush, though. I’d hire him as my gardener any time.

But not to run a country, especially not the USA. Maybe he could do a stint in Quebec. We could use major tax cuts. He’s good at that, I’m told.

Moi? Jamais!

Lower status… Let me see… How about pseudo-facist?

And what’s that about tone? We’re not japanese, we’re the descendants of whores and thieves (although we prefer the term “self-employed service providers and entrepreneur”) sent over by the King of France a few hundred years ago when Nouvelle-France seemed a good place to stash the rabble.

I’ll put in a few “osti de tabarnac,” mispronounce all my Ds and Ts and it’ll go over just dandily.

lixy · May 17, 2007, 7:55pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
I’m sorry. I just have trouble with people who cannot connect these dots. [/quote]

What’s really surprising is how far some idiots would go to try and justify Bush’s blunder.

It surprises me how far you will go to excuse your president’s crimes (invading countries, harbouring and financing terrorists…)

And if you read closer, Pookie never excused Saddam. He showed how criminal a hasty war is.

My guess is that Pookie’s friends don’t give a damn about what some idiot think.

And what’s up with attacking a whole people? That was really low of you!

Ren · May 17, 2007, 8:00pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
ren wrote:
JeffR wrote:
What saddam using sarin against Americans shows quite clearly that he was willing and able to attack the Americans using these nefarious methods.
JeffR

aaahhhhhh, then why didn’t he? (the 2nd time we paid him a major visit that is).

Hey, troll.

Maybe he did.

Think it through.

If he did, would you man up and admit that you are sad?

I doubt it.

JeffR
[/quote]

I would actually, so where’s the proof he threw biological and/or chemical weapons at our troops during our invasion?

JeffR · May 17, 2007, 9:19pm

[quote]pookie wrote:

And what’s that about tone? We’re not japanese, we’re the descendants of whores and thieves (although we prefer the term “self-employed service providers and entrepreneur”) sent over by the King of France a few hundred years ago when Nouvelle-France seemed a good place to stash the rabble.

I’ll put in a few “osti de tabarnac,” mispronounce all my Ds and Ts and it’ll go over just dandily.
[/quote]

Touche.

One of those times that your response is better than my retort.

I won’t cheapen it.

Strong.

JeffR

JeffR · May 17, 2007, 9:20pm

[quote]renny wrote:
JeffR wrote:
ren wrote:
JeffR wrote:
What saddam using sarin against Americans shows quite clearly that he was willing and able to attack the Americans using these nefarious methods.
JeffR

aaahhhhhh, then why didn’t he? (the 2nd time we paid him a major visit that is).

Hey, troll.

Maybe he did.

Think it through.

If he did, would you man up and admit that you are sad?

I doubt it.

JeffR

I would actually, so where’s the proof he threw biological and/or chemical weapons at our troops during our invasion?[/quote]

Well, if you did the honorable thing, I’d have to start taking you seriously.

You know full well that if I can find it, I’ll post it!!!

I hope saddam DIDN’T use gas the second time around.

JeffR

JeffR · May 23, 2007, 10:06pm

Hey dems,

With the failure of your Congress to lose the war, I wanted to post a time magazine article.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1624697,00.html

That’s Anbar Province. That’s Iraqi Sunnis standing up and fighting the terrorists.

THAT, is progress.

JeffR

P.S. I give time credit. Who would have ever thunk it?

pookie · May 29, 2007, 5:09pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
That’s Anbar Province. That’s Iraqi Sunnis standing up and fighting the terrorists.

THAT, is progress.[/quote]

My guess is that they just realized that they’ll have to do it for themselves, since you suck so bad at it.

Your “surge” (what everyone else on the planet would call “reinforcements” or “more of the same”) is apparently having great success: http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/2007/05/may_becomes_2007s_deadliest_mo.php\

Violence in Baghdad continues; this morning, dozens of people were killed and injured in two separate car bombings.

Who can argue with THAT progress?

Zap_Branigan · May 29, 2007, 6:03pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
That’s Anbar Province. That’s Iraqi Sunnis standing up and fighting the terrorists.

THAT, is progress.

My guess is that they just realized that they’ll have to do it for themselves, since you suck so bad at it.

Your “surge” (what everyone else on the planet would call “reinforcements” or “more of the same”) is apparently having great success: http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/2007/05/may_becomes_2007s_deadliest_mo.php\

Violence in Baghdad continues; this morning, dozens of people were killed and injured in two separate car bombings.

Who can argue with THAT progress?
[/quote]

Michael Yon is not afraid to criticize the admin, the military and the way the war has been fought. He has this to say.

Although there is sharp fighting in Diyala Province, and Baghdad remains a battleground, and the enemy is trying to undermine security in areas they?d lost interest in, the fact is that the security plan, or so-called ?surge,? is showing clear signs of progress. The city of Hit, for instance. Only about a hundred days ago, Hit was a city at war.

Today, the buildings are still riddled with bullet holes, but the Iraqi people are opening shops and painting over the scars. They are waving and smiling while hundreds of men are volunteering to join the police.

I saw a ?policeman? on duty today whose ?weapon? was a plastic pistol. I photographed the toy. And so this man was on ?duty? with a toy pistol, though he has not yet attended the police academy and is not even being paid.

A writer could probably squeeze bad news from that story, but I won?t try. In fact, Hit is a place where writers who wish to escape combat and bad news should visit.

And of course he is over there.

JeffR · May 29, 2007, 8:25pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
That’s Anbar Province. That’s Iraqi Sunnis standing up and fighting the terrorists.

THAT, is progress.

My guess is that they just realized that they’ll have to do it for themselves, since you suck so bad at it.

Your “surge” (what everyone else on the planet would call “reinforcements” or “more of the same”) is apparently having great success: http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/2007/05/may_becomes_2007s_deadliest_mo.php\

Violence in Baghdad continues; this morning, dozens of people were killed and injured in two separate car bombings.

Who can argue with THAT progress?
[/quote]

pookie,

Lame.

Sunnis banding together and fighting terrorism is exactly what we want.

When they can protect themselves, we are gone.

That’s been the stated goal from the outset.

Oh, everyone knows about the violence. It doesn’t need any more highlighting.

What everyone doesn’t apparently realize are the growing success stories.

Finally, I know that you desperately want to be right. My question to you: Is it really worth that much? Wouldn’t you like to be “wrong” and have a friendly democracy in the Middle East on the iranian and syrian border?

JeffR

JeffR · May 29, 2007, 8:26pm

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
That’s Anbar Province. That’s Iraqi Sunnis standing up and fighting the terrorists.

THAT, is progress.

My guess is that they just realized that they’ll have to do it for themselves, since you suck so bad at it.

Your “surge” (what everyone else on the planet would call “reinforcements” or “more of the same”) is apparently having great success: http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/2007/05/may_becomes_2007s_deadliest_mo.php\

Violence in Baghdad continues; this morning, dozens of people were killed and injured in two separate car bombings.

Who can argue with THAT progress?

Michael Yon is not afraid to criticize the admin, the military and the way the war has been fought. He has this to say.

Although there is sharp fighting in Diyala Province, and Baghdad remains a battleground, and the enemy is trying to undermine security in areas they?d lost interest in, the fact is that the security plan, or so-called ?surge,? is showing clear signs of progress. The city of Hit, for instance. Only about a hundred days ago, Hit was a city at war.

Today, the buildings are still riddled with bullet holes, but the Iraqi people are opening shops and painting over the scars. They are waving and smiling while hundreds of men are volunteering to join the police.

I saw a ?policeman? on duty today whose ?weapon? was a plastic pistol. I photographed the toy. And so this man was on ?duty? with a toy pistol, though he has not yet attended the police academy and is not even being paid.

A writer could probably squeeze bad news from that story, but I won?t try. In fact, Hit is a place where writers who wish to escape combat and bad news should visit.

And of course he is over there.[/quote]

Excellent article. Keep them coming!!!

JeffR

vroom · May 30, 2007, 3:47am

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Finally, I know that you desperately want to be right. My question to you: Is it really worth that much? Wouldn’t you like to be “wrong” and have a friendly democracy in the Middle East on the iranian and syrian border?
[/quote]

Jerffy,

I’d like that more than anything.

How long do you think Iran, Syria and Al Queda would let it last if the US ever left?

You’ve opened Pandora’s box and bought yourself a protectorate with an ongoing payment in American lives.

It’s a tragic situation. Whoever lets the troops come home will be blamed for the loss of Iraq. Brilliant. At least you’ll probably be able to blame the Dems… and I’m sure you will.

Regrettably, the cost in dollars is what will eventually lead to a withdrawal. You don’t think anybody on the other side is trying to figure out how to maximize your financial costs in the long term?

Only your stupidity has us commenting in the manner we do. Wake up and smell the coffee… it’s an expensive and tragic clusterfuck brought about by shortsighted thinking. It makes nobody happy.

Keep on cheerleading Jerffy, it’s making a world of difference!

I guess ignorance really is bliss.

lixy · May 30, 2007, 11:49am

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Excellent article. Keep them coming!!!

JeffR [/quote]

On as side note, referencing excerpts might be a good idea.

lixy · May 30, 2007, 11:53am

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Sunnis banding together and fighting terrorism is exactly what we want. [/quote]

Sunnis will always loath you for taking away their privileged life under Saddam. Any Sunni ally you think you have is the exception rather than the rule.

lixy · May 30, 2007, 12:05pm

[quote]vroom wrote:
How long do you think Iran, Syria and Al Queda would let it last if the US ever left? [/quote]

It’s probably a rhetorical question, but they’re clearly not letting it go even with the US is still on the ground.

Boohoo, like noone saw it coming (OK, maybe JeffR and Zap bought into the propaganda…)

Protectorate is what the French named their little empirialist adventure in North Africa. Tunisia was put under protectorate in 1881 and Morocco followed shortly after. They were driven out by violent resistance movements (read insurgents) around the late 1950’s. In the meantime, they managed to get French companies to suck as much resources from the ground as possible. Sounds familiar to the Iraqis?

100meters · May 30, 2007, 12:06pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
That’s Anbar Province. That’s Iraqi Sunnis standing up and fighting the terrorists.

THAT, is progress.

My guess is that they just realized that they’ll have to do it for themselves, since you suck so bad at it.

Your “surge” (what everyone else on the planet would call “reinforcements” or “more of the same”) is apparently having great success: http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/2007/05/may_becomes_2007s_deadliest_mo.php\

Violence in Baghdad continues; this morning, dozens of people were killed and injured in two separate car bombings.

Who can argue with THAT progress?

Michael Yon is not afraid to criticize the admin, the military and the way the war has been fought. He has this to say.

Although there is sharp fighting in Diyala Province, and Baghdad remains a battleground, and the enemy is trying to undermine security in areas they?d lost interest in, the fact is that the security plan, or so-called ?surge,? is showing clear signs of progress. The city of Hit, for instance. Only about a hundred days ago, Hit was a city at war.

Today, the buildings are still riddled with bullet holes, but the Iraqi people are opening shops and painting over the scars. They are waving and smiling while hundreds of men are volunteering to join the police.

I saw a ?policeman? on duty today whose ?weapon? was a plastic pistol. I photographed the toy. And so this man was on ?duty? with a toy pistol, though he has not yet attended the police academy and is not even being paid.

A writer could probably squeeze bad news from that story, but I won?t try. In fact, Hit is a place where writers who wish to escape combat and bad news should visit.

And of course he is over there.

Excellent article. Keep them coming!!!

JeffR

[/quote]

While Jeffry was playing with his ponys:

BAGHDAD – The U.S. military announced Tuesday that 10 American soldiers were killed in Iraq on Memorial Day, making May the deadliest month for U.S. troops this year, as insurgents continued attacks on official and civilian targets.

Gunmen dressed in police uniforms staged a well-coordinated kidnapping at Iraq’s Finance Ministry and abducted five people whom the British Foreign Office identified as British citizens.

Two vehicle bombings in Baghdad left at least 44 people dead and 74 wounded. And the bodies of 32 men – all shot and tortured, some handcuffed and blindfolded – were found in two locations north and south of the capital Tuesday, a senior Iraqi security official said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-iraq_0530may30,1,6597469.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

On the positive side, several people surely celebrated birthdays today in Iraq…so yeah, there’s good news too.

pookie · May 30, 2007, 12:55pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
pookie,

Lame.[/quote]

I tailor to my audience.

Let me guess, those are Shiite terrorists, right?

And in some Shia quarters, Shiites are banding together to fight Sunni terrorism.

It’s fun to spin everything so as to match what you’d like to see happening. Too bad is doesn’t make it happen.

Like I said, never.

What happened to WMDs?

Yet, when there’s a little piece of news talking about violence reduction somewhere, you’re all over it. See Zap above.

And of course the areas being reinforced will see a reduction of violence; the insurgents will simply move to another area and come back when the reinforcements leave.

Has anyone here ever heard of guerilla warfare tactics? If all you know of warfare is what you learned watching G.I Joe cartoons, you need to educate yourself.

Ha! Good one. Do you own stocks in military caskets businesses?

Actually, I desperately want to be wrong about this. I would like nothing more for Iraq to turn around and become the most modern, friendly country in the region.

Unlike you, though, I’m not ready to lie, twist facts, close my eyes and ignore reality to pretend that it’s actually happening.

Go back and read my posts from 2 or 3 years ago. I said the same thing: Too little troops (thanks Rummy); too much ignorance of local mores and cultures; chances of success: nil. No boots and no planning equals no success.

Zap_Branigan · May 30, 2007, 1:11pm

[quote]lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Excellent article. Keep them coming!!!

JeffR

On as side note, referencing excerpts might be a good idea.

[/quote]

http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/a-memorial-day-message.htm

JeffR · May 30, 2007, 1:52pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
pookie,