New Iraqi Strategy

[quote]100meters wrote:
Uhmmm…openly fighting back against an enemy that is fighting us because we are present. Minus us…uhmm isn’t it likely that sunni’s distracted by us might attack someone else? say al qaeda in Iraq. Again al qaeda is pouring in because WE ARE THERE, not because we aren’t. [/quote]

That’s the point nobody wants to discuss.

The administration put you in front of a fait accompli. Takes some skills to pull that off and not only get away with it, but manage to have faithful cheerleaders who refuse to see the big picture.

[quote]lixy wrote:
100meters wrote:
Uhmmm…openly fighting back against an enemy that is fighting us because we are present. Minus us…uhmm isn’t it likely that sunni’s distracted by us might attack someone else? say al qaeda in Iraq. Again al qaeda is pouring in because WE ARE THERE, not because we aren’t.

That’s the point nobody wants to discuss.

The administration put you in front of a fait accompli. Takes some skills to pull that off and not only get away with it, but manage to have faithful cheerleaders who refuse to see the big picture.[/quote]

lumpy and his pal lixy,

Run away!!! Turn tail!!! Maybe they won’t be emboldened. Maybe they won’t increase their recruiting based on a monster victory.

Maybe we can arrest them after they’ve broken the law.

No matter what the issue. No matter what the cost. If Bush has anything to do with it, I’m against it.

Great thinking!!!

JeffR

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He is ignoring the true democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan where people actually risked their lives to vote

You fail to mention that people are risking their lives to shop for milk or go to school as well.

Democracy at gun-point is not democracy. When the occupation ends, I’ll withdraw my comment about Iran beating them democracy-wise.

Lebanon has a democracy even though we do not like many of those elected.

So do the occupied territories. [/quote]

I didn’t see too many guns pointed at people forcing them to vote. I am not sure what democracy at gunpoint means.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Sloth wrote:
“BAGHDAD - A battle raged Thursday in west Baghdad after residents rose up against al-Qaida and called for U.S. military help to end random gunfire that forced people to huddle indoors and threats that kept students from final exams, a member of the district council said…”

Fuckin’ A.

Assuming it’s not a slanted report, it’s a great sign when we can get the citizens of Iraq to cooperate with US forces and work to eliminate threats or improve their own well being and lifestyle.

I remember posting a long time ago that it is the Iraqi people that will ultimately have to decide that they won’t allow terrorism in their country. Maybe this indicates that some of them are willing to do something to make it happen instead of simply hoping the US will do it all.

So, the question is, is this an isolated or over hyped incident, or is it indicative of where we are heading? Is someone over there, finally, who knows what they are doing?[/quote]

This has been happening and will continue to happen and grow. There are plenty of people over there that know what the hell they are doing but the situation is enormously complicated.

Read this and tell me if you think the arrest was the right move or not.

http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/the-final-option.htm

[quote]lixy wrote:

Did Al-Qaeda have the same influence in Iraq before the invasion? No? Shut the fuck up then!
…[/quote]

No but now they have committed to Iraq and the seeds of their destruction have been sown.

They are desperately fighting on the battleground we chose. When they lose in Iraq they will lose everywhere.

If they did not fight in Iraq they knew their movement was doomed.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
No but now they have committed to Iraq and the seeds of their destruction have been sown.

They are desperately fighting on the battleground we chose. When they lose in Iraq they will lose everywhere.

If they did not fight in Iraq they knew their movement was doomed.[/quote]

Zap, I couldn’t help but laugh out loud reading your comment. If I didn’t know where you stood, I’d have considered your post sarcasm.

You really think there’s a way to eradicate terrorism? Do you seriously believe there is a limited supply of terrorists? Do you not see how it feeds on the very violence you throw at it?

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Quick questions: Are dirty nuclear weapons WMD?[/quote]

In my opinion, no. They’re weapons of terror. They scare a lot of people, but they don’t kill or destroy much.

Quick distribution of iodine pills will go a long way in preventing long term effects such as cancers.

It is fuel-grade uranium, for use in a reactor. When the Baghdad reactor was bombed by Israel, I’m pretty sure they didn’t land to clean up behind them.

Well maybe you should do that then.

You’ve used WMDs on Japan in 1945. Are you likely to use them again?

What a stupid question. Even from you.

If they’d voluntarily signed up for military duty, I’d expect them to perform that duty. I wouldn’t wish them harm, of course, but I wouldn’t ask for a country to be invaded so that they can have a safer tour of duty, no.

All evidence of those flights rests with only one man’s testimony.

Another thing about WMDs. Having had them at one time doesn’t mean you have them forever. Most of these weapons degrade over time and are complicated and expensive to maintain.

The Middle East is not exactly a high-tech bastion of advanced weapon technology. My guess is that most of their weapons, even if they have them, are borderline unusable because they either lack the know-how, the delivery technology or the courage to use them.

I’m pretty sure Syria doesn’t want to be the one to confirmt that Israel does, indeed, have nuclear weapons.

No. I’d be worried if it was weapons-grade uranium. What they had was not in a form suitable to make nuclear devices, and enriching that uranium with centrifuges is a complicated process that takes a long time (because so little of it is produced by each centrifuge).

I don’t worry much about high-tech weapons from near-medieval cultures.

Saddam’s best known weapon, the Scud missile, was crappy Soviet tech that was so imprecise that it made your near-useless Patriot missile look good in 1991.

Your tech has improved since; Soviet and Middle Eastern one, not so much.

Sometimes war is unavoidable. I think it really should be the last resort, though, which in Iraq is wasn’t.

I also don’t like the bullshit humane “media-friendly” wars that the modern West wages. If you go to war, go to war to win.

It’s nearly impossible to win against a guerilla if they have the local population’s support (which they almost always have); they can outwait you, fight dirty, and have nearly zero expenses. To win those wars, you have to be willing to remove their support, which means removing the local population.

If you don’t have cause to do that; or no stomach for it, then you have no business going to war.

As much as it deserves.

[quote]pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Quick questions: Are dirty nuclear weapons WMD?

In my opinion, no. They’re weapons of terror. They scare a lot of people, but they don’t kill or destroy much.

Quick distribution of iodine pills will go a long way in preventing long term effects such as cancers.[/quote]

We are done.

That is INSANE.

JeffR

[quote]lixy wrote:

Did Al-Qaeda have the same influence in Iraq before the invasion? No? Shut the fuck up then!

[/quote]

lixy,

Thunder doesn’t need any help from me. He’s making you look extremely foolish.

However, I’ve heard the argument that “Since al qaeda’s presence has increased in Iraq since the war began, we shouldn’t have gone in the first place” being thrown around from our home-grown liberals.

Pick any conflict. Anytime. Anywhere. Front’s change. Enemies move. They follow their enemies. They pick where to fight. Therefore, wherever they choose to fight their “influence” goes up. That place becomes the central theatre of action.

The appropriate action is exactly the opposite of what you and our liberal pals propose. The appropriate action is to defeat the enemy on his chosen ground.

If you want some examples that highlight the silliness of your position, I’d be happy to provide them.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Quick questions: Are dirty nuclear weapons WMD?

In my opinion, no. They’re weapons of terror. They scare a lot of people, but they don’t kill or destroy much.

Quick distribution of iodine pills will go a long way in preventing long term effects such as cancers.

We are done.

That is INSANE.

JeffR

[/quote]

Jeffro finds a way to run away…

Big surprise here.

[quote]pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
pookie wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Quick questions: Are dirty nuclear weapons WMD?

In my opinion, no. They’re weapons of terror. They scare a lot of people, but they don’t kill or destroy much.

Quick distribution of iodine pills will go a long way in preventing long term effects such as cancers.

We are done.

That is INSANE.

JeffR

Jeffro finds a way to run away…

Big surprise here.
[/quote]

Yes, I fear taking unpopular positions. I fear argument. I run away at the first sign of conflict.

Wait…

Your commentary about dirty nuclear weaponry is INSANE. If these were your people being targeted, it is 100% certain you wouldn’t be so incredibly insensitive and cavalier.

You drop a comment like that, our discussion is over.

Period.

Claim victory if you like. However, you are an insensitive prick who should immediately apologize for the dirty bomb comment.

Those of us who game plan on how to deal with EXACTLY THE SCENARIO YOU DISMISS give you a hale and hearty middle finger.

“Oh, just give some iodine…”

JeffR

[quote]pookie wrote:
Third question: How do you not understand that our awareness and determination to fight terrorism increased exponentially after 911?

Well maybe you should do that then.[/quote]

ROTFLMAO!

This has got to be the best possible answer in the world. Kudos Pookie!

Jerffy, are you confusing a dirty NUCLEAR bomb with a dirty bomb? Do you even know why Pookie is suggesting iodine?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Jerffy, are you confusing a dirty NUCLEAR bomb with a dirty bomb? Do you even know why Pookie is suggesting iodine?[/quote]

Sure he is. He’s been known to confuse his ass with his head.

Jeffry, do some homework.

[quote]lixy wrote:

(text)[/quote]

Again, we see the end result of Lixy. Unable to make the legitimate case against Bush, he instead:

  1. Relies on hunches, theories, and propaganda

  2. Thinks that feeling sorry for the “oppressed” substantiates an argument

  3. Obfuscates when pressed for proof, hard evidence, or rational arguments

I have said this before, Lixy - you are what you claim to despise the most: a blind follower.

You have changed arguments to a point I can’t even count them anymore - and, what, with your embarrassing gaff of “No Blood for Oil Routes!”.

Have fun, Lixy - it must be nice to live in a world that doesn’t exist except in a radical’s fever dream. As for me, I’ll stick to reality - from which you are completely detached.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
100meters wrote:
Uhmmm…openly fighting back against an enemy that is fighting us because we are present. Minus us…uhmm isn’t it likely that sunni’s distracted by us might attack someone else? say al qaeda in Iraq. Again al qaeda is pouring in because WE ARE THERE, not because we aren’t.

That’s the point nobody wants to discuss.

The administration put you in front of a fait accompli. Takes some skills to pull that off and not only get away with it, but manage to have faithful cheerleaders who refuse to see the big picture.

lumpy and his pal lixy,

Run away!!! Turn tail!!! Maybe they won’t be emboldened. Maybe they won’t increase their recruiting based on a monster victory.

Maybe we can arrest them after they’ve broken the law.

No matter what the issue. No matter what the cost. If Bush has anything to do with it, I’m against it.

Great thinking!!!

JeffR

[/quote]

Your daily dose of baseless propaganda from Jeffr!

Do you ever get cramps in your hand from scribbling down all of Sean Hannity’s talking points?

Your post sounded like the transcript from a show on FOX news.

[quote]lixy wrote:
vroom wrote:
Jerffy, are you confusing a dirty NUCLEAR bomb with a dirty bomb? Do you even know why Pookie is suggesting iodine?

Sure he is. He’s been known to confuse his ass with his head.

Jeffry, do some homework.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5173310.stm[/quote]

lixy,

You just plain suck. I’m the wrong person to be trying to educate on something you don’t understand.

Here are the basics:

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_terrorism/fissile-materials-basics.html

Now, Chernobyl used slighly enriched uranium. For the dumbasses like yourself, I’ll translate: Here is the danger curve: Highly enriched uranium > Low Enriched Uranium >>>>Slightly enriched uranium.

Here is a breakdown of what Iraq imported:

http://www.iaea.org/worldatom/Programmes/ActionTeam/nwp2.html

NOTICE 50 KG OF HIGHLY ENRICHED URANIUM FROM RUSSIA AND FRANCE.

In short, they had highly enriched uranium that can make a variety of nuclear weaponery. Take a look at the last link and you will see how many other things WE KNOW he had.

I’d feel good about besting you. However, one shouldn’t applaud the tenor for clearing his throat.

JeffR

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
No but now they have committed to Iraq and the seeds of their destruction have been sown.

They are desperately fighting on the battleground we chose. When they lose in Iraq they will lose everywhere.

If they did not fight in Iraq they knew their movement was doomed.

Zap, I couldn’t help but laugh out loud reading your comment. If I didn’t know where you stood, I’d have considered your post sarcasm.

You really think there’s a way to eradicate terrorism? Do you seriously believe there is a limited supply of terrorists? Do you not see how it feeds on the very violence you throw at it? [/quote]

Eradicate terrorism? No. Eradicate Al Qaeda and their brand of Islamic fanatacism as a significant threat? Yes.

The Islamic world is being dragged into this century kicking and screaming. There will be blood but things will change for the better.

They bad guys know it and that is why they are fighting so hard.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Here are the basics:

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_terrorism/fissile-materials-basics.html[/quote]

Is it just my imagination, or does this document start out with a nuclear bomb, which of course is NOT what has been under discussion you terrified idiot.

I’m sorry your life has been reduced to cowering in fear and terror and striking out on the Internet to make yourself feel better.

Therapy may be available…

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Again, we see the end result of Lixy. Unable to make the legitimate case against Bush, he instead:

  1. Relies on hunches, theories, and propaganda [/quote]

Well, my “theories” make a lot more sense than the official storyline. I learn from history. You dismiss it and wave the flag saying “the US always act in good faith!”.

Uh? Should I not care how many kids died because of your support for an unnecessary war?

Of course, I can’t prove that the driving motive to invade wasn’t the WMDs. Can you prove it was? No, so shut up.

The best we can come to in such debates is a certain degree of confidence on the issues. But that’s not surprising coming from a Manichean anyone-who-disagrees-with-me-is-wrong.
Did you show any evidence at all yourself? You keep hammering down the UNSC as if it were the council of truth. Sorry to break your bubble mate, it’s not.

Says Mr. Bush-was-right!

You keep interpreting and twisting my posts in your head. No wonder you’d get confused. And by the way, it’s spelled gaffe. A gaff is something completely different.

It sure is nicer than a world where you have to play the apologist for war criminals. It’s not just you who’s detached from reality; it’s actually the bulk of Americans. No offense meant, but you guys seem to care more about the SuperBowl and Anna-Nicole Smith’s butt than about what’s going on outside your borders.