I’m one of the lucky ones. I found a simple protocol and I’ve been feeling great for over a year. For me, cutting my T dose and keeping my E2 in the low 20’s has made all the difference.
Albeit anecdotal, it’s still very useful as an example, what is your current protocol and your total, free, and E2 numbers, and age?
…if you don’t mind that is.
TT = 873
FT= 105
E2= 24
These were my last labs on the following protocol. 50mg T cyp on Sunday am and Wednesday pm. 0.24mg of Adex at the same time. 250iu of hcg on Monday and Thursday.
I’m 56 years old. 6ft and 173lbs. My libido is through the roof. I lift three times per week. Pretty strong for an old dude. Blood pressure is better now than 20 years ago. My family doc looked at my blood work and said "just keep doing whatever you’re doing ".
Not my TRT blood work, my annual physical blood work.
Very interesting. So you only do HCG twice a week?
I’m glad you mentioned lifting because it gives an objective strength measurement. How is your strength with these numbers compared to say when you were 35 and not on trt?
I do HCG EOD and can definitely feel it diminishing by that 3rd day. But I’ve only been on it a for less than a month so I’m sure there’s no settled pattern yet.
Well, I’m kinda on my own and still looking for a new doc as the guy I saw yesterday is NOT the guy who is willing to enter into a collaborative relationship with his patients. I’ll expound on this on my own thread. I appreciate your input @Nashtide and @gtron.
I wasn’t lifting when I was 35. I am a member of a serious gym. Most of the members are in their 20’s and 30’s. Lots of bodybuilder types. So I can kinda gauge my strength based on what these young guys are pushing around. I’m also way past fertility age and only use the hcg to maintain the boys. I never really noticed any effects from the hcg except for the obvious that my testicles are the same size as always.
So how do you compare your strength to the 30+ year olds in the gym? I ask because I’m as strong as I was in my 30’s (at 53) but my trt levels are a little higher than yours. I was just wondering if it’s because of those levels or if you get the same results too? Because I may play with lowering mine if so. Although I did experiment with lowering mine in the past and ended up in constant pain and losing mass. That wouldn’t stop me from trying again though.
And I feel the similar about HCG…the testes makes other hormones besides testosterone, so keeping them functioning is important as far as I’m concerned.
I’m kinda in the same situation with doctors and am not sure what’s going to happen next. Keep me updated!
I’m not focused purely on strength at the gym. I also only go three times per week. So my strength gains are anecdotal. I see what the strong, young guys are lifting and I feel like I compare favorably for my weight and age. More importantly to me is that I feel strong. I feel energetic and motivated at the gym. For me, the point of TRT was to get my life back. Gains in the gym are nice but not the point. I wanted a libido and I got an 18 year olds libido. I wanted energy and focus and I have both again. I wanted to lose 40lbs and maintain that weight and I have. It’s all about quality of life and for me that meant a lower TT and control of my E2.
@Nashtide - That perfectly describes where I want to be (initially)
Get my life back to include:
- Libido
- Energy
- Focus
- Drop the love handles
I am not back to the strength I had when I was lifting 5-6x week like when I was 35 but I am definitely seeing some improvement over what I would have imagined I’d be like after not lifting at all for over 3 years.
I’m only lifting 3x week as well but trying to add more walking, jumping rope, and bodyweight exercises on non-lifting days.
Back to the hCG:
- I don’t know that I’ve ever noted an improvement in mood/energy while on it
- Of course I’ve only been off it for 2 weeks due to running out of supply
- I have not noticed any changes in mood/energy and probably too early to tell if testicles have any atrophy
@gtron - you said,
I do HCG EOD and can definitely feel it diminishing by that 3rd day
If you’re doing it EOD, how is it that you feel it diminishing by the 3rd day?
I’m assuming you meant that because you started feeling like it was diminishing that you went to a more frequent dosing (EOD) but please clarify
Like I said, I don’t notice any effects from the hcg. I use to keep the boys in shape.
I’m not looking for gains in the gym either. In fact I don’t even lift. The reason I asked about weights was that it’s an objective measurement. I do however, spar with young men in their prime (20’s and 30’s) as I always have for the last 20 years. And age has never played a role until relatively recently. That’s what got me looking to TRT in the first place. With TRT I recovered what had so suddenly dissipated…strength, endurance, and the ability to RECOVER from training.
But it came at a price. Low libido, and a completely different (for the worse) feeling while having sex. There was something missing. Also other general feelings that are hard to describe but that are noticeable. HCG suddenly brought all these thing back to “normal”. In fact, optimal normal…as in normal for when I was 20.
Well I guess I can feel it diminish only because I so strongly feel the effects. Ill explain. When I was on TRT without HCG, I would get raging erections made of steel BUT there was no sensation or pressure behind them. I think what I’m about to explain is so common and universal that most people don’t even realize it’s there…until it’s not.
When you are thinking about or are about to engage in sex, you get a full body and brain tingling and you feel “pressure” in your loins. That pressure is what builds and wants to be released as orgasm. Well without HCG, I would achieve erections no problem, but there was zero pressure. There was no tingling and nothing to “build-up”. To be able to finish at all, I had to close my eyes, put my head down, and pound like a jackhammer set to full speed, all while concentrating intensely. That was the ONLY way I could finish. I’m pretty sure my wife was wondering what the hell was going on.
With HCG, the feelings and full body tingling and pressure is back, as well as the libido itself. I can finish normally, in whatever way I deem appropriate for the moment. Life is good again.
So as to your question, “What do I feel diminishing by the 3rd day?” It’s all of that. I feel great on the day of the shot, even better the next day, but when I wake up on the 3rd day I can feel it declining. But then I do my shot that day, so for me, the schedule timing is perfect (meaning, if I did HCG on monday, I wake on wednesday to it fading, but that’s also the day I do HCG again).
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Very interesting! I’m going to start paying more attention to see if I can spot any of the effects you mention. I have the distinct feeling that my E2 levels are the critical factor for me. When they are too low I experience strong erections but no feeling. When my E2 is in the low 20’s I feel like a caveman. Strong erections, high libido and the sweet spot where I can last as long as I want and my orgasms seem to last 5 minutes!
Yeah let me know. But you may or may not notice it as much because in my case, I was on TRT for almost a year and a half without any HCG. So my testes decline and their general shutdown had been going on for a long time. And as mentioned, the testes make other things besides testosterone, and who knows what kind of cascade they cause elsewhere and what peripheral things they affect. I just think it’s a good idea to keep all that functioning normally. And all I know is I’m much happier with it.
Oh yeah, and speaking of your seemingly 5 minute orgasms, when I wasn’t on HCG, even when I did achieve orgasm, it was not the same nor intense like before TRT. There were no individual repeated “ropes” as it were. It was just like one general release of “blah”. It was like I suddenly didn’t own kegel muscles. I can’t explain why that would be! But alas, HCG has brought that back online.
As far as E2, I’ve had mine everywhere from low 20’s to high 30’s while playing with my arimidex levels. For me it didn’t make any difference. It turns out that HCG was the missing component, at least in my case.
I just thought of something…because I’ve heard many people here like yourself mention how critical it is to have perfect E2 levels. I’m betting now that things are balanced out (because of HCG), if my E2 levels stray out of the golden zone, I will indeed notice it.
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