NBA Playoffs 2012

Off Topic
921

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
Reports that the Lakers also signed Meeks from the Sixers to be a backup for Kobe. I really like this signing. Add to that the addition of Duhon as a back up PG and our bench should be good this season.[/quote]

I like Meeks. That kid’s jumper is set on auto. Also, can we all finally agree that the NBA is fixed?[/quote]

nope!
[/quote]

Ha ha ha. Wilbon also addressed that point in his D12 trade recap for ESPN.com:

[quote]
… Is this good for the NBA? Hell yeah, it is. It’s great for any league when it has a cornerstone team that plays for keeps every single season. I’d argue that the Lakers matter to Southern California more than any team in the NBA matters to the city in which it plays, save Oklahoma City, whose size of community makes that an entirely different discussion.

If the Howard deal flies in the face of everything the owners sought to secure during last summer’s lockout, that’s on them. The Lakers do exactly what they should try to do; they try to win. Other franchises should be as conscientious. I’m just glad David Stern’s not working as some team’s GM this summer; imagine how upset he’d be if he were still running the Hornets that they didn’t have a last chance to get Dwight Howard. The Lakers didn’t have to take back any hideous contracts to make this deal. Essentially, they turned Bynum into Howard and Steve Nash this offseason. Can’t they just give the 2012-13 NBA Executive of the Year Award to Mitch Kupchak now?

It’s not as if only the Lakers got better, though. The 76ers got the low-post threat they desperately needed in Bynum, whose presence around the basket should dramatically help all those perimeter players, starting with Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner. Andre Iguodala’s style is tailor-made for what Denver does. Orlando is getting crushed for getting no star player, not even Bynum, in return for Howard. But Rob Hennigan, Orlando’s new GM, is from the OKC school and may want to go about building a team just this way, which is to say with draft picks. We won’t be able to fairly judge Orlando’s yield for years and years, which is about the same amount of time it’ll take for the Magic to be worth watching again.[/quote]

922

Laker fans like chillain wondering why Pau couldn’t play like that against OKC (actually, probably why he couldn’t play like that for the last two years).

Spain needed that one guy who could create his own shot and be aggressive enough to score at will. Basically, someone that’s not going to back down and not give in not matter what the situation.

I’m telling you now though, watch out for New Zealand basketball to make its mark on the world stage real soon. Go the Mighty Tall Blacks.

Aotearoa baby.

923

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Laker fans like chillain wondering why Pau couldn’t play like that against OKC (actually, probably why he couldn’t play like that for the last two years).

Spain needed that one guy who could create his own shot and be aggressive enough to score at will. Basically, someone that’s not going to back down and not give in not matter what the situation.

I’m telling you now though, watch out for New Zealand basketball to make its mark on the world stage real soon. Go the Mighty Tall Blacks.

Aotearoa baby.[/quote]

lol

924

I’m not sure who I hate more as a player/person: Bynum or Howard. One’s a fake douche(WF is right on the money) and the other is an immature douche.

I think Bynum has just as much potential offensively as Howard (maybe more). If he would just grow up and keep himself mentally in the game, he could be the best center in the league. He’ll get his chance in Philly playing against weaker big men. I’m looking forward to how he responds to being the #1 option. Baby finally got his bottle.

Lakers definitely got better, but they had the talent to win it all the last 2 seasons and we saw how far they got.

That being said, I think we’ll see a Heat/Lakers final this year.

925

^^Bynums offensive game is FAR superior to Howard’s… Howard gets a lot of his points based on his athleticism. Bynums offensive game >>> Howards.

Howard is going to make his impact on the Defensive side for LA. That’s where Bynum can’t hold a candle to D12.

Lakers Heat final would be awesome. Kobe gets his 6th ring while Dwight and Nash finally get their first. Oh Happy Day! :slight_smile:

926

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Dwight Howard is the biggest douchebag in the league.[/quote]

x2 and im a Cavs fan…

The NBA is slowly becoming the MLB in terms of market size/cities glamor = ability to succeed.

Someone needs to explain what the point of the lockout was?

927

The MLB is WAY more competitive than the NBA. The only uncompetitive division is the AL East. Every other division is cyclical.

Basketball is centred around only a handful of individuals stars basically mean everything. Furthermore, you don’t get the level of control over a player in the NBA as you do in the MLB.

928

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Laker fans like chillain wondering why Pau couldn’t play like that against OKC (actually, probably why he couldn’t play like that for the last two years).[/quote]

There’s no mystery here. As Bynum continued to develop, he needed more and more low-block touches and this forced Gasol both into the high-post more often and down to third in the pecking order. That Gasol was able to maintain his efficient play while only getting 8-10 FGAs on many nights, well, let’s just say there’s few players in the entire league who could make similar adjustment. Actually the hands-down most annoying thing for knowledgeable LAL fans was listening to the (ignorant) bandwagon majority who would call for Gasol’s head like every other game. Sure, Gasol played way too soft at times but there’s a reason for the old cliche about ‘getting your big offensive touches in order to keep them involved defensively’ or however that one goes.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
I’m not sure who I hate more as a player/person: Bynum or Howard. One’s a fake douche(WF is right on the money) and the other is an immature douche. [/quote]

I LOL’ed.

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Someone needs to explain what the point of the lockout was? [/quote]

Well, it def was NOT about marrying players to the teams that drafted them. Also, don’t forget this was a four-team deal amongst four teams who (presumably) acted in their own best interests. And as I pasted onto previous page, Wilbon addressed this well (imo):

Wilbon - "If the Howard deal flies in the face of everything the owners sought to secure during last summer’s lockout, that’s on them. The Lakers do exactly what they should try to do; they try to win. Other franchises should be as conscientious. I’m just glad David Stern’s not working as some team’s GM this summer; imagine how upset he’d be if he were still running the Hornets that they didn’t have a last chance to get Dwight Howard. The Lakers didn’t have to take back any hideous contracts to make this deal. Essentially, they turned Bynum into Howard and Steve Nash this offseason. Can’t they just give the 2012-13 NBA Executive of the Year Award to Mitch Kupchak now?

It’s not as if only the Lakers got better, though. The 76ers got the low-post threat they desperately needed in Bynum, whose presence around the basket should dramatically help all those perimeter players, starting with Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner. Andre Iguodala’s style is tailor-made for what Denver does. Orlando is getting crushed for getting no star player, not even Bynum, in return for Howard. But Rob Hennigan, Orlando’s new GM, is from the OKC school and may want to go about building a team just this way, which is to say with draft picks. We won’t be able to fairly judge Orlando’s yield for years and years, which is about the same amount of time it’ll take for the Magic to be worth watching again."

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Basketball is centred around only a handful of individuals stars basically mean everything. Furthermore, you don’t get the level of control over a player in the NBA as you do in the MLB.[/quote]

This is very true. I believe it was Simmons who first said that most seven-game series are ultimately decided by which team has the best (read: most unstoppable) player. That after all the coaching adjustments, it all just comes down to star power in the end. I don’t think he’s wrong.

The other thing is that these hoop prodigies get coddled/worshipped from junior high AAU onward. They’ve always been taller, more athletic, more skilled than everyone else and don’t often have to earn their way up the ladder like many, many baseball players. One can imagine the sense of entitlement, Ima-always-do-what-I-want sentiment that comes with that.

929

It’s funny I only had a chance to tune in to the gold medal game for about 6 minutes, and during those 6 minutes Pau Gasol put up like 12/5/3 and looked completely unstoppable.

930

Here’s what I don’t get: if the goal is to keep players on their teams, why not ban sign-and-trades? I.e., make any signed player wait a minimum of a year before he can be traded.

Currently, a guys’ own team can offer him more years/money in Free Agency than other teams… but all that happens is he gets signed and traded to wherever he wants to go (or traded before his contract is up). It’s not a real advantage unless you abolish the sign-and-trade.

Players Union would probably try and fight it, but it wouldn’t depress salaries at all (same $ being offered either way) so I can’t imagine it would be a giant issue.

edit: You can make the argument that a team can “take the hard line” and tell their player to either take their max offer or walk for less money, but then you have a) a disgruntled player, b) a reputation that you won’t help out your players when their contract is up, and that you’re only in it for you - point b) hurts you in signing future free agents. It’s really not an option to have the reputatin as a hardliners when all 29 other teams are doing it the other way.

931

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Furthermore, most of Lakers greats outside of Kobe have been acquired via trade, not draft or free agency. There is nothing preventing small market teams from competing in the trade market.

Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol (not a “great” but turned them from playoff-team to championship-team with Kobe). [/quote]

Most of those examples are from a different CBA! They don’t count!

So you are allowed to bring examples from any era even as far as Kareem, but I’m relegated only to the current CBA?

[quote]scj119 wrote:

There are only 2 teams that have been successful with the “intentionally bottoming out” model in the last 15 years:the Thunder, who got by far the best 2nd overall pick in the draft in NBA history, as well as SOMEHOW two more top-4 picks in consecutive years- it’s not a repeatable strategy!!! [/quote]

What about the Cavaliers? Or the Heat? or the Nuggets? Or is 2003 irrelevant?

[quote]scj119 wrote:

And, the Magic, who drafted a player (Howard) so good that he took a team whose second best player was Jameer Nelson into the Finals. You could say it worked in that one instance, and they’ve been in the luxury tax with shitty teams ever since.

You can point to teams before that, but the CBA was so different it’s not comparable.[/quote]

They got to the Finals.

932

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^ haha, the guy is just such a douche that I almost want him to fail. From stealing Shaq’s identity, to his treatment of the Magic, to his fathering THREE illegitimate children during the SAME MONTH (Oct '10) to his fake holey roller act, the guy is just despicable. If karma exists, he’s fucked.[/quote]

Have you read his bio (on his own website)?

http://www.dwighthoward.com/bio[/quote]

This can’t be his real website

BIO:

“Orlando Magic center Dwight David Howard Jr. is not just a basketball player. He is one of the most charismatic and thus popular basketball player on earth. His muscular physique resembles a 6â??11 bronze statue of Apollo. His resume belies his 24 years of age while reading like the first chapter of a sports monopoly. The home grown Atlanta, Georgian has pillared his brand on ferocious dunks and electric smiles.”[/quote]

DwightHoward.com is linked on Dwight Howard’s verified twitter account. I doubt it’s fake.

That being said, he may be going for humour here.

933

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Furthermore, most of Lakers greats outside of Kobe have been acquired via trade, not draft or free agency. There is nothing preventing small market teams from competing in the trade market.

Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol (not a “great” but turned them from playoff-team to championship-team with Kobe). [/quote]

Most of those examples are from a different CBA! They don’t count![/quote]

Fair enough, I was trying to argue something slightly different - just that spending wildly on free agents in a big market isn’t how they’ve built their success. But I’ll give you that.

[quote]

[quote]scj119 wrote:

There are only 2 teams that have been successful with the “intentionally bottoming out” model in the last 15 years:the Thunder, who got by far the best 2nd overall pick in the draft in NBA history, as well as SOMEHOW two more top-4 picks in consecutive years- it’s not a repeatable strategy!!! [/quote]

What about the Cavaliers? Or the Heat? or the Nuggets? Or is 2003 irrelevant?[/quote]

The Nuggets? Because in 1 of Melo’s 7 years there, they made it past the first round of the playoffs (lost in WCF), then he got traded for pennies on the dollar? That’s an example of the strategy working? I actually think their current team (lots of tradeable talent, good cap situation, opportunity to pounce if a superstar becomes available via trade) is pretty decent despite not having a “star”.

The Heat? Miami had the 5th overall pick when they got Wade, not exactly bottoming out for a number 1 pick. Not to mention, they had to TRADE ASSETS FOR SHAQ to win it all, they were not going to win a title with the Wade/Butler/Odom team that they accrued after drafting Wade. They kept tradeable assets and made a deal for a superstar who became available so I would say it was combination of our 2 strategies.

I’ll address the Cavs below.

Something I neglected to mention, that I would’ve liked the bottoming out method more back when high school players were draftable. It takes them longer to be ready which gives 1-2 more chances at the lottery before they are ready to be centerpieces of a deep playoff run.

The bottom line is, I am all about playing the odds. There is a 75 % chance the bottom team doesn’t get the number 1 pick (hasn’t happened since 2004), there is probably a 50 % chance that a franchise-changing talent isn’t even available (let alone multiple ones available like when the Thunder could take Durant at 2). On top of that, you may not even get last place if you try, because multiple teams will be tanking to get that pick as we saw last year. So let’s say you hit that ~5percent chance of getting your franchise changer with the first pick, now you have 14 other roster spots that belonged to players who just earned a 20-win season, and you have to find talent at a minimum of 7 other spots on your roster.

It’s easy to point out a bunch of examples to prove a rule. What about all the teams that were shitty but FAILED in getting their franchise changer? It’s much, much larger than the 5 or so teams it’s worked for that you mentioned.

934

[quote]scj119 wrote:

The Nuggets? Because in 1 of Melo’s 7 years there, they made it past the first round of the playoffs (lost in WCF), then he got traded for pennies on the dollar? That’s an example of the strategy working? I actually think their current team (lots of tradeable talent, good cap situation, opportunity to pounce if a superstar becomes available via trade) is pretty decent despite not having a “star”.
[/quote]

Before this discussion goes any further, we need to agree upon what constitutes a successful rebuild. I told you earlier my definition of a successful rebuild is when a team reaches the conference finals or further.

You on the other hand are waffling. In one breath you’ll give MEM tons of slack for their injuries even when there’s absolutely no indication they’ll reach the conference finals over the next couple of years. In another breath you’ll criticize the Denver Nuggets for only getting to the conference finals once in 7 years with Melo.

So please tell me exactly how you define a successful rebuild. Please do not give a nebulous answer.

935

You guys are talking about GMs and building teams and haven’t mentioned the Spurs yet?!

Mike Wilbon is wrong. Mitch Kupchek doesn’t deserve to unanimously win the GM of the Year award. It should go to the GM who made a team better by giving less. There should be some criteria b/ Mitch Kupchek didn’t bring in Howard or Nash, Kobe, the city of LA and the Laker reputation convinced those guys to want to put on that purp’ and gold.

936

scj

ny-lions

937

3264×2448 2.17 MB

In Philly right now and rolled by the official Mitchell and Ness store.

Decided to splurge and dropped 3 bills on a throwback 99-00 Vince Carter Toronto Raptors Jersey.

938

3264×2448 1.54 MB

Also picked up a gym shirt I like but I’m not sure if it will hold up long term.

:slight_smile:

939

For anyone on this site who plans to buy a throwback Mitchell and Ness jersey beware: They run small compared to Adidas swingman jerseys, a high end replica. Adidas also makes the current authentic jerseys so I wouldn’t be surprised if current authentics are bigger than Mitchell and Ness’s stuff.

It’s a lot tighter around the upper back and peck area compared to my Swingman Kobe jersey.