Also, has Rand even been on the site after making an ass of himself last year? I’ve never seen one person get so worked up [internet or real life] over basketball. Someone needs to make sure the poor guy didn’t hurt himself.
^haha
Last I saw him post was at the end of the Finals. He dropped in, posted a Lebron joke and then never returned.
He’s also a huge Boston Red Sox fan, a team that recently suffered one of the biggest collapses in sports history.
[quote]overstand wrote:
- Lebron
[/quote]
How is this possible? Did you not see the complete breakdown he had his last series. Great athlete, Great player but to be Number 1 you have to figure out ways to get the ball up when your team needs you. He was completely helpless at some points. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any Great player in that position.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
- Lebron
[/quote]
How is this possible? Did you not see the complete breakdown he had his last series. Great athlete, Great player but to be Number 1 you have to figure out ways to get the ball up when your team needs you. He was completely helpless at some points. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any Great player in that position.[/quote]
And do you know how ridiculous it is to base your judgement on one series??
Did you see him play during the season or in the rest of the playoff series?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Some of the posts here are hysterical. Bryant 4th best? Dwight Howard top 2-3? Bryant put up 25/5/5 playing his fewest minutes since his 2nd year WHILE being injured AND having played basketball FOR 3 STRAIGHT YEARS. If he’s rested and rehabbed this off-season he’ll be on a mission, and I fully expect him to kick ass out there.
And, I’d put Howard top 10, but that’s just 'cause outside of Bynum he’s the only true center left in the league. The only thong he does well is be more athletic than any of todays “centers”. He gets one major lower body injury and he’s nothing more than a giant paperweight.[/quote]
Howard is the best defender in the NBA and was dramatically better on offense last year. He had 23/14/2.5 pts/rebs/blocks and no other center in the league is capable of anywhere near those numbers.
25/5/5 does NOT make you the best player in the league. I doubt you were calling Brandon Roy the best player when he was putting up those same totals with higher percentages. Wade and LBJ both did it last year.
BTW Kobe is not getting younger, “being injured” is one of the reasons he’s not higher because there’s no reason to expect him to start getting injured less often. There is every reason to expect he will get injured more often. It’s what age does.
I can’t wait till he goes 23/5/4.5 this year and you still argue he’s the best in the league.[/quote]
You are out ot your mind if you think Howard is the best defender in the league. He’s a good shotblocker and rebounder but when matched against a competent center he gets schooled, like when Yao would eat his lunch. Beating up on the Kendrick Perkins and Taj Gibsons of the world doesn’t impress me.
Comparing Brandon Roy to Bryant is laughable. Roy played to his absolute max to get those numbers. Kobe contains himself to get 'em. And, I understand being injured is part of getting older. But, I think his injuries have more to do with overuse than age. If he comes out and regresses from last year I’ll concede his top spot. But what if he comes out and wrecks? Will you finally give him the credit he deserves? If he’s sorted his injuries out you can bank on it.
[/quote]
Getting on this late, haven’t read the whole thread but I think a healthy Kobe is the top player in the league. However, it’s not really his age relative to injuries that is key here, it’s the fact that his “playing age” is much higher since he came straight out of high school. He’s got more miles on his body than the average NBA player than did college time (and the shorter college seasons). This type of arc for him was predicted for him years ago. We may see the same thing for LeBron years from now.
They play roughly 30 games a season in college x four years or less is 120 games max (if you’re a starter or full time contributor all those years). NBA is 82 games plus all the travel (not to be underestimated especially since it takes most young knuckleheads YEARS to learn how to take care of themselves, their bodies and get enough rest) or roughly 320 games over the same span. That’s 200 extra games on the body or almost 3 full NBA seasons.
Kobe is probably “3 years older” than his chronological age.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
He’s also a huge Boston Red Sox fan, a team that recently suffered one of the biggest collapses in sports history.
[/quote]
Yeah, I don’t think anyone had a worse year as far as heartbreak from their teams losing and the way they lost as Randman. At least I had the Bruins winning the cup and the Pack taking the Super Bowl lol.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Face it: you have to be non-objective to think Kobe is the best in the game. No one who’s NOT A LAKERS FAN argues for Kobe as the best in the game, which means pretty obviously that he no longer is.
Plenty of people who don’t care about the Heat think LBJ/Wade are top 2… plenty who don’t care about the Magic think DH is top 2.
I don’t like or dislike the Lakers or Kobe one way or the other. But both are very overrated by their fan base. [/quote]
I’m not a fan by any stretch of the imagination. This season will tell if Kobe is on the decline or not. However, he is definitely the better player of LBJ and Wade. It’s not close in my mind.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Face it: you have to be non-objective to think Kobe is the best in the game. No one who’s NOT A LAKERS FAN argues for Kobe as the best in the game, which means pretty obviously that he no longer is.
Plenty of people who don’t care about the Heat think LBJ/Wade are top 2… plenty who don’t care about the Magic think DH is top 2.
I don’t like or dislike the Lakers or Kobe one way or the other. But both are very overrated by their fan base. [/quote]
Clearly you do dislike Bryant 'cause you’re saying he’s overrated. There are SEVERAL people who are part of the pro game who still consider Bryant the best. I’m done arguing with you on this point as you seem to just want to bash the guy, and have been doing it now for the last couple of NBA threads. [/quote]
lol I’m just saying - I’ve never heard anyone who’s not a fan call him the best in the NBA.
I don’t think simply saying he’s not the best player in the NBA is a “bash”. It’s not like I’m calling him a detriment to the team. I just think a couple guys have passed him. It’s not like I am alone in this opinion.
I don’t think he’s overrated by most people - I do think you personally overrate him.
If there’s one theme in all my posts it’s that I draw people towards the middle… you think he’s the best and I disagree… but if someone was saying he’s like the 10th best I would also call them an idiot.
edited to fix quote fuckup[/quote]
To the casual fan he may no longer be the best. However, the casual fan has been raised on ESPN highlights. I bet the player consensus would be a healthy Kobe as the best player in the game right now. I’d bet a large sum of money on it.
Let me get this out of the way: LeBron is not the best player in the league. Perhaps the best athlete and capable of being dominant. But as far as complete player than knows how to win and not disappear at critical times? NO. And he has, and continues to lack a mid-range game. It’s one of two things with LBJ; run it to the rim or launch a 3. If he ever learns to get a closer shot off the dribble he’ll be unstoppable.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Face it: you have to be non-objective to think Kobe is the best in the game. No one who’s NOT A LAKERS FAN argues for Kobe as the best in the game, which means pretty obviously that he no longer is.
Plenty of people who don’t care about the Heat think LBJ/Wade are top 2… plenty who don’t care about the Magic think DH is top 2.
I don’t like or dislike the Lakers or Kobe one way or the other. But both are very overrated by their fan base. [/quote]
Clearly you do dislike Bryant 'cause you’re saying he’s overrated. There are SEVERAL people who are part of the pro game who still consider Bryant the best. I’m done arguing with you on this point as you seem to just want to bash the guy, and have been doing it now for the last couple of NBA threads. [/quote]
lol I’m just saying - I’ve never heard anyone who’s not a fan call him the best in the NBA.
I don’t think simply saying he’s not the best player in the NBA is a “bash”. It’s not like I’m calling him a detriment to the team. I just think a couple guys have passed him. It’s not like I am alone in this opinion.
I don’t think he’s overrated by most people - I do think you personally overrate him.
If there’s one theme in all my posts it’s that I draw people towards the middle… you think he’s the best and I disagree… but if someone was saying he’s like the 10th best I would also call them an idiot.
edited to fix quote fuckup[/quote]
To the casual fan he may no longer be the best. However, the casual fan has been raised on ESPN highlights. I bet the player consensus would be a healthy Kobe as the best player in the game right now. I’d bet a large sum of money on it. [/quote]
Healthy and 5 years younger are not the same thing. Is he the highest ranked current player on the GOAT list? Absolutely, maybe top 10 GOAT. Is he the best player in the league, healthy or otherwise? HELL NO! I would take that bet in an instant. He would probably be voted “Most Clutch” or something similar, but he is obviously well past his prime. This is not saying he’s a bad player, I put him 7th in my top 10, and you could arguably swap him with Derek Rose at 6th. But top 5, let alone #1? Only a Lakers fan drinking the last bit of koolaid would believe that.
Explain to me how Kobe is better than any of these guys: Lebron, Dirk, DWade, Howard, Durant.
And to the other guy, I am a Mavericks fan, nobody was happier than me to see Lebron choke in the fourth quarter of the finals. But I’m not foolish enough to think that one series defines who he is as a player (he played great through the rest of the playoffs). He’s #1 no doubt about it.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Let me get this out of the way: LeBron is not the best player in the league. Perhaps the best athlete and capable of being dominant. But as far as complete player than knows how to win and not disappear at critical times? NO. And he has, and continues to lack a mid-range game. It’s one of two things with LBJ; run it to the rim or launch a 3. If he ever learns to get a closer shot off the dribble he’ll be unstoppable. [/quote]
I honestly don’t think James will ever try and develop other parts of his game. He’s been in the league, what, 8 years now and he’s added NOTHING since his first game, he’s just more physically mature and more polished at what he’s always been good at. It’s sad, 'cause while there are better athletes, and better players, there are not any better or more athletic basketball playing athletes right now, and if he could add even one thing like a simple post move he would open up so many more spots for himself and his team. And, I don’t mean post game, I literally mean just one move. Don’t think his ego will let him recognise he needs work.
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Face it: you have to be non-objective to think Kobe is the best in the game. No one who’s NOT A LAKERS FAN argues for Kobe as the best in the game, which means pretty obviously that he no longer is.
Plenty of people who don’t care about the Heat think LBJ/Wade are top 2… plenty who don’t care about the Magic think DH is top 2.
I don’t like or dislike the Lakers or Kobe one way or the other. But both are very overrated by their fan base. [/quote]
Clearly you do dislike Bryant 'cause you’re saying he’s overrated. There are SEVERAL people who are part of the pro game who still consider Bryant the best. I’m done arguing with you on this point as you seem to just want to bash the guy, and have been doing it now for the last couple of NBA threads. [/quote]
lol I’m just saying - I’ve never heard anyone who’s not a fan call him the best in the NBA.
I don’t think simply saying he’s not the best player in the NBA is a “bash”. It’s not like I’m calling him a detriment to the team. I just think a couple guys have passed him. It’s not like I am alone in this opinion.
I don’t think he’s overrated by most people - I do think you personally overrate him.
If there’s one theme in all my posts it’s that I draw people towards the middle… you think he’s the best and I disagree… but if someone was saying he’s like the 10th best I would also call them an idiot.
edited to fix quote fuckup[/quote]
To the casual fan he may no longer be the best. However, the casual fan has been raised on ESPN highlights. I bet the player consensus would be a healthy Kobe as the best player in the game right now. I’d bet a large sum of money on it. [/quote]
Healthy and 5 years younger are not the same thing. Is he the highest ranked current player on the GOAT list? Absolutely, maybe top 10 GOAT. Is he the best player in the league, healthy or otherwise? HELL NO! I would take that bet in an instant. He would probably be voted “Most Clutch” or something similar, but he is obviously well past his prime. This is not saying he’s a bad player, I put him 7th in my top 10, and you could arguably swap him with Derek Rose at 6th. But top 5, let alone #1? Only a Lakers fan drinking the last bit of koolaid would believe that.
Explain to me how Kobe is better than any of these guys: Lebron, Dirk, DWade, Howard, Durant.
And to the other guy, I am a Mavericks fan, nobody was happier than me to see Lebron choke in the fourth quarter of the finals. But I’m not foolish enough to think that one series defines who he is as a player (he played great through the rest of the playoffs). He’s #1 no doubt about it.[/quote]
This is just silly. How do you define “best player” across teams of different composition and positions? You cannot.
Let me put it this way. We are playing for all the marbles - the intergalactic basketball championship. One game for all the money. Your team is comprised of perfect players at every position except shooting guard and you have one opening. One game. One and done. You can choose between LBJ, Wade or a healthy Kobe.
LOL I have Kobe and I’m coming home with the trophy. LBJ, Wade, D-rose, etc. are not getting you that one win.
You’re confusing “relative performance” over a season with “best player”. You first need to resolves issues of “labels” (what is “best”) before you have the argument.
[quote]overstand wrote:
He’s #1 no doubt about it.[/quote]
No he’s not.
You sir are the “casual fan”. I played the sport. Still in contact with those that played in the league. He is not regarded in that fashion at the present time although I do certainly understand why the average fan would feel that way.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Let me get this out of the way: LeBron is not the best player in the league. Perhaps the best athlete and capable of being dominant. But as far as complete player than knows how to win and not disappear at critical times? NO. And he has, and continues to lack a mid-range game. It’s one of two things with LBJ; run it to the rim or launch a 3. If he ever learns to get a closer shot off the dribble he’ll be unstoppable. [/quote]
I honestly don’t think James will ever try and develop other parts of his game. He’s been in the league, what, 8 years now and he’s added NOTHING since his first game, he’s just more physically mature and more polished at what he’s always been good at. It’s sad, 'cause while there are better athletes, and better players, there are not any better or more athletic basketball playing athletes right now, and if he could add even one thing like a simple post move he would open up so many more spots for himself and his team. And, I don’t mean post game, I literally mean just one move. Don’t think his ego will let him recognise he needs work.[/quote]
3 words. MID RANGE GAME. If he gets that, he cannot be stopped. I don’t care about post moves but point taken. He can shoot from the outside. He can get to the hole. What he can’t do is put the ball on the floor, advance it to a mid range spot on the floor, put his defender on his heels and pull up for a reliable shot.
I do agree with you though. Apparently after 8 years, I think it’s safe to we won’t see much more development in his core skills/game.
lol, I guess only “casual fans” know that Lebron doesn’t even play SG, he’s a small forward. I played varsity HS basketball too dude. Your entire argument is an appeal to authority (I know you like to figure yourself the master of all logical fallacies).
And speaking of perfect players at every position, if you’ll recall, Kobe had a vastly superior supporting cast in the WC Semi Finals vs. Dirk and the Mavs. How did that turn out?
Shit I can’t even believe I’m defending Lebron here. I hate the dude, but as somebody who actually watches NBA games I have absolutely no doubt he is the best player in the league. Also, being a superior athlete is part of being a better player. Ray Allen is the best shooter in the league, yet he has no where near the impact Lebron does. Skill is only part of the equation.
@Whiteflash: Did you see the recent ESPN interview with Lebron? It was on like yesterday or the day before. He was totally humble and admitted he should have done things differently (but I suspect that’s more of an effort to rehab his image than a genuine feeling). But he said he was working with Hakeem all summer on his post game, and he’s got some new “tricks in his bag”.
Knicks on the verge of signing Tyson Chandler, thatll form a nasty front line! I think Im gonna call the Knicks front office and tell them Im available to play Point Guard…I liken myself to a bulkier John Crotty. Chauncey we hardly knew theee
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Let me get this out of the way: LeBron is not the best player in the league. Perhaps the best athlete and capable of being dominant. But as far as complete player than knows how to win and not disappear at critical times? NO. And he has, and continues to lack a mid-range game. It’s one of two things with LBJ; run it to the rim or launch a 3. If he ever learns to get a closer shot off the dribble he’ll be unstoppable. [/quote]
I honestly don’t think James will ever try and develop other parts of his game. He’s been in the league, what, 8 years now and he’s added NOTHING since his first game, he’s just more physically mature and more polished at what he’s always been good at. It’s sad, 'cause while there are better athletes, and better players, there are not any better or more athletic basketball playing athletes right now, and if he could add even one thing like a simple post move he would open up so many more spots for himself and his team. And, I don’t mean post game, I literally mean just one move. Don’t think his ego will let him recognise he needs work.[/quote]
3 words. MID RANGE GAME. If he gets that, he cannot be stopped. I don’t care about post moves but point taken. He can shoot from the outside. He can get to the hole. What he can’t do is put the ball on the floor, advance it to a mid range spot on the floor, put his defender on his heels and pull up for a reliable shot.
I do agree with you though. Apparently after 8 years, I think it’s safe to we won’t see much more development in his core skills/game. [/quote]
I was just using that “one move” to illustrate a point. It could’ve literally been ANYTHING other than standstill 3 or bulling his way to the rim. We’re in agreement though. Anything he added to open up the floor for him would make him unstoppable, in theory. The problem is he’d still have an alligator mouth and humming bird heart, and I don’t think there’s any amount of work that can fix that.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Face it: you have to be non-objective to think Kobe is the best in the game. No one who’s NOT A LAKERS FAN argues for Kobe as the best in the game, which means pretty obviously that he no longer is.
Plenty of people who don’t care about the Heat think LBJ/Wade are top 2… plenty who don’t care about the Magic think DH is top 2.
I don’t like or dislike the Lakers or Kobe one way or the other. But both are very overrated by their fan base. [/quote]
Clearly you do dislike Bryant 'cause you’re saying he’s overrated. There are SEVERAL people who are part of the pro game who still consider Bryant the best. I’m done arguing with you on this point as you seem to just want to bash the guy, and have been doing it now for the last couple of NBA threads. [/quote]
lol I’m just saying - I’ve never heard anyone who’s not a fan call him the best in the NBA.
I don’t think simply saying he’s not the best player in the NBA is a “bash”. It’s not like I’m calling him a detriment to the team. I just think a couple guys have passed him. It’s not like I am alone in this opinion.
I don’t think he’s overrated by most people - I do think you personally overrate him.
If there’s one theme in all my posts it’s that I draw people towards the middle… you think he’s the best and I disagree… but if someone was saying he’s like the 10th best I would also call them an idiot.
edited to fix quote fuckup[/quote]
To the casual fan he may no longer be the best. However, the casual fan has been raised on ESPN highlights. I bet the player consensus would be a healthy Kobe as the best player in the game right now. I’d bet a large sum of money on it. [/quote]
Healthy and 5 years younger are not the same thing. Is he the highest ranked current player on the GOAT list? Absolutely, maybe top 10 GOAT. Is he the best player in the league, healthy or otherwise? HELL NO! I would take that bet in an instant. He would probably be voted “Most Clutch” or something similar, but he is obviously well past his prime. This is not saying he’s a bad player, I put him 7th in my top 10, and you could arguably swap him with Derek Rose at 6th. But top 5, let alone #1? Only a Lakers fan drinking the last bit of koolaid would believe that.
Explain to me how Kobe is better than any of these guys: Lebron, Dirk, DWade, Howard, Durant.
And to the other guy, I am a Mavericks fan, nobody was happier than me to see Lebron choke in the fourth quarter of the finals. But I’m not foolish enough to think that one series defines who he is as a player (he played great through the rest of the playoffs). He’s #1 no doubt about it.[/quote]
This is just silly. How do you define “best player” across teams of different composition and positions? You cannot.
Let me put it this way. We are playing for all the marbles - the intergalactic basketball championship. One game for all the money. Your team is comprised of perfect players at every position except shooting guard and you have one opening. One game. One and done. You can choose between LBJ, Wade or a healthy Kobe.
LOL I have Kobe and I’m coming home with the trophy. LBJ, Wade, D-rose, etc. are not getting you that one win.
You’re confusing “relative performance” over a season with “best player”. You first need to resolves issues of “labels” (what is “best”) before you have the argument. [/quote]
No, see now you’re manipulating the conversation. This discussion isn’t about hypothetical scenarios or who is more skilled or better in his prime. This is about judging effectiveness based on face value right now. Trading Kobe for a LBJ, Wade, D-Rose, Dwight, or Durant would be fair simply because they are extreme talents on the rise while Kobe is on the decline. You have to think about the future and practicality. Past NBA threads have exhausted those extensive arguments about the “better” player.
ESPN did a list during the lockout of top-something players in the league right now and Kobe was no.7.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
He’s #1 no doubt about it.[/quote]
No he’s not.
You sir are the “casual fan”. I played the sport. Still in contact with those that played in the league. He is not regarded in that fashion at the present time although I do certainly understand why the average fan would feel that way. [/quote]
Larry Bird and Scottie Pippen both said they think when it’s all said and done, Lebron will be the best player to have ever played the game.
So much for opinion of the players as a valid argument huh??
So if best player is too broad, who was the most dominant player in the NBA last season from a statistical standpoint?
Does anyone here think that player was Kobe?