http://newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm
http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-03-03.htm
How would this work exactly? I’ll confess I’m not overly versed on the non cash version of AA reparations. What does a non cash payout reparations look like that achieves this goal?
This isn’t simply because a value is “difficult.” If Washington came together on it they could stick a number to it in a week and never look back. It’s about the links in this chain. Every one of those questions that need to be answered, that aren’t/can’t be based in math, create an opportunity to breed and fester more racial tension.
My concern is that the very nature of how complex an issue this is creates and insurmountable task re: net gain to America.
It simply changes the verbiage. You’re most likely acutely aware that clickbait headline “news” on social media seems to be the latest trend in influencing people personally. The problem I mention here isn’t necessarily a deal-breaker for reparations on its own, it’s just another to add to the heap of negatives that have to be overcome.
Ay Dios Mio, reparations again, joy.
Isn’t investment in SGI education a form of reparations?
Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparations?
Is this not a form of reparations?
Is this not a form of reparations? ____________(insert a thousand things)
How about the disruption to white families whose father’s, brother’s, and son’s died on the battlefield in Gettysburg, do their descendants deserve something?
“Exactly” how such a trust-fund system would be implemented and run is not my forte. Broadly, the process would decrease the education, employment and (ultimately) wealth gaps, which are the primary objective socioeconomic indicators of the legacy of slavery/JC/de facto racism.
I recognize and accept that you think valuation is impossible to accomplish in a productive manner.
These are legit questions.
Sure, if their descendants can demonstrate a substantial, group-wide, current socioeconomic disadvantage owing to de jure, then de facto discrimination.
I was more interested in the specifics. Conceptually, “fast track to being average Americans with respect to wealth, opportunity, and mobility” seems like a mighty tall task for a trust fund (or even a cash payout), but I’m open to the concept given that it’s not just currently a theoretical in the world and specifics exist.
Determining specifics would be the task of a group of individuals–all far better-informed on the subject than an ophthalmologist shooting his mouth off online–holding hearings, taking testimony, debating the issue in-depth, and finally coming to a consensus.
Have you seen any theoretical specifics posited by other people? Or is this just “we should investigate whether or not this is even possible” territory?
Yes. There are many examples readily accessible on the web, including scholarly work on valuation (mentioned because it is a matter of stated concern for you).
Why does it have to be related to discrimination? I doubt it’d be that hard to provide evidence that losing a father has an adverse effect on a child. Father’s died to end slavery. Personally, I think the “South” should have to write the “North” a fat check.
You don’t seem keen on going into reparations any deeper than what we have already. I’ll bow out at this point as reparations are an exceedingly low priority topic for me. Have a great one.
Well, for one thing, the men who fought and died volunteered to do so. I am led to believe the same was not true of most slaves, as well as AA who suffered under Jim Crow and de facto discrimination.
Debating the nitty-gritty of a subject I know next to nothing about is something I try to avoid.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You have a great one as well.
The great majority of Union soldiers were volunteers, but there were about 50,000 Union soldiers drafted during the Civil war and another 100,000 or so who were paid substitutes.
There were major riots during the Civil War in New York City over the draft.
The difference doesn’t impact the resulting effect on their descendants.
Plus, why are we factoring in personal choice (that leads to a negative net wealth outcome) for white descendants, but not for black ones?
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That would make for a good movie.
Now if they can just demonstrate a substantial, group-based, current socioeconomic disadvantage owing to de jure, then de facto discrimination, they’ll be in like Flynn.
See above. Also, as a rule we don’t expect the govt to make whole every family that suffered any sort of misfortune at any point in their lineage. Finally, the govt does pay pensions/benefits to the appropriate surviving members of a veteran’s family.
Because we’re talking about the ultimate (ie, initial and primary) cause. In other words, because of its laws, policies and judicial actions (or lack thereof), the Federal govt bears ultimate responsibility for the current socioeconomic plight of AAs writ large (ie, as a group). It (the Feds) got the slavery legacy-ball rolling, so to speak. Just how much of the current S-E plight of AAs is attributable to the Feds is a matter for study, deliberation and debate.
Wealth gap? Really? Disparate outcomes means disparate opportunities right? Ugh.
But you said above that personal choice causes effects down the road and have to be accounted for, for whites. That’s true for blacks, too, right?
What credit does the Federal government get for prosecuting a war to end slavery, the Reconstruction Amendments, and all of the policies, laws, etc. that have been helpful to AAs since 1865? Any?
The ultimate cause of a volunteer soldier’s death in wartime is the fact that he volunteered. It has nothing to do with being white or black.
As for the role of AAs’ decisions in their plight, it is a subject worthy of debate/discussion.
The AA-white wealth gap is a fact. If you have an explanation for this fact that is so much more compelling than the legacy of slavery/JC/de facto discrimination as to render it (the discrimination-legacy account) insignificant, I’m all ears.
Agreed, which is why I’m raising it - personal decision-making of course has tremendous impact on outcomes, and such decision-making is highly individualized and unique (it being personal). How can any one fairly discount personal choice (as they should) when it varies so widely for individuals? One AA’s grandfather was a drunk and a wastrel, another built his own business and passed it along to his heirs. Do each of these AAs get the same amount under reparations?
In response to the moderator posing the question, “How can you argue that racism is not a driving factor in income inequality,” Shapiro, to the head-shaking and arm-flailing of his fellow panelists, fired back, “Because it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.”
“Explain to me why black kids aren’t graduating high school,” Shapiro continued. “Explain to me why black kids are shooting each other at significantly higher rates than whites are shooting each other. Explain to me why 13 percent of the population is responsible for 50 percent of the murder. Explain to me why the number of black kids in prison is so high. Explain to me, if it has nothing to do with culture, why the single-motherhood rate in the black community jumped from 20 percent to 70 percent in the same course of time that the civil rights movement has made such tremendous strides. Is America more racist now than it was in 1960? And if it is please explain to me how that happened.”
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