Didn’t the Jays do a deal with the White Sox as well, for Edwin Jackson?
Ervin Santana just got done with a no-hitter, and the Angels won 3-1. Wonder how often you get a no-hitter that’s not a shutout.
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
Didn’t the Jays do a deal with the White Sox as well, for Edwin Jackson?
[/quote]
Yeah, they flipped him to Cardinals, there was never any intention of keeping him. In my last post I included what the Jays gave up to the Sox (Jason Frasor and Zach Stewart)
Yeah, just read about the deal now, when I saw the story earlier they were only talking about what was happening between the Sox and the Jays, and the Jays and the Cardinals, I didn’t connect the two. Kinda surprised they would deal Rasmus, I guess they’re just frustrated with him? I wouldn’t have made that trade in fantasy land lol.
Is Beltran on the Giants now?
Or has it not happened yet?
Beltran isnt in the Mets lineup tonight.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beltran isnt in the Mets lineup tonight. [/quote]
Yeah, he’s a Giant now. I think the only reason it hasn’t been finalized yet is that the Mets have agreed to send cash to the Giants as well and they’re just figuring out how much. From what I’ve heard, Beltran has already cleared his locker out in NY and is expected to be in the lineup tomorrow night in Philly.
The Giants gave up a pretty good prospect for him in Zach Wheeler. Word is the guy throws a HARD sinker, almost Kevin Brown-like, which is the best sinker I’ve ever seen and probably ever will. He has a good hard curveball and a halfway decent changeup. In 88 innings this year he has a 3.99 era (which I think is actually supposed to be pretty good for the league he plays in) with 98 strikeouts, an opponents avg of somewhere around .220, BUT he has 49 walks as well.
After watching the game last night, I knew by the end of the day today Beltran would be a Giant. They looked fucking SHIT last night. Worley shoved it right up their ass and that guy is a motherfucking fraud! I hadn’t seen him pitch until yesterday and he isn’t anything special at all. 88-90 with little movement, not much deception to his delivery, an average curve, some sort of cutter that doesn’t do a whole lot and not much of a changeup. Sabean saw that pitiful performance from the Giants’ hitters and probably called the Mets right after the game and said “Fuck it, who do we have to give you to get Beltran right now?”
Now if only they would sack up and shitcan that worthless Triple-A pitcher Zito once and for all. If they give me a pair of season tickets for the rest of my life I’ll gladly bash that fucker’s left arm with a bat and kick him in the teeth then burn all of the stuffed animals that fucking faggot carries around on the road with him.
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
Yeah, just read about the deal now, when I saw the story earlier they were only talking about what was happening between the Sox and the Jays, and the Jays and the Cardinals, I didn’t connect the two. Kinda surprised they would deal Rasmus, I guess they’re just frustrated with him? I wouldn’t have made that trade in fantasy land lol.[/quote]
I’ve been hearing for a couple weeks now that LaRussa is fucking done with the guy. Obviously he’s been struggling this year, didn’t really show any improvement between 2009 and last year and apparently the last straw was his refusal to work with the Cardinals’ hitting coach, instead working with a private instructor not affiliated with the team.
^ That private instructor is his dad and he is denying it.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/27/rasmus-dad-blasts-tony--la-russa
LaRussa is a head case. The guy drove Scot Rolen out of town and forced the Cardinals to make a bad trade. Now he’s doing the same with Rasmus.
He’s young controllable talent with a ridiculously high ceiling. As for his progression, I haven’t seen him play much but from looking at his stats his HRs increased by 7 and BA by 25 points between '09 and '10. I’ll agree he has taken a step back this year.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beltran isnt in the Mets lineup tonight. [/quote]
Yeah, he’s a Giant now. I think the only reason it hasn’t been finalized yet is that the Mets have agreed to send cash to the Giants as well and they’re just figuring out how much. From what I’ve heard, Beltran has already cleared his locker out in NY and is expected to be in the lineup tomorrow night in Philly.
The Giants gave up a pretty good prospect for him in Zach Wheeler. Word is the guy throws a HARD sinker, almost Kevin Brown-like, which is the best sinker I’ve ever seen and probably ever will. He has a good hard curveball and a halfway decent changeup. In 88 innings this year he has a 3.99 era (which I think is actually supposed to be pretty good for the league he plays in) with 98 strikeouts, an opponents avg of somewhere around .220, BUT he has 49 walks as well.
After watching the game last night, I knew by the end of the day today Beltran would be a Giant. They looked fucking SHIT last night. Worley shoved it right up their ass and that guy is a motherfucking fraud! I hadn’t seen him pitch until yesterday and he isn’t anything special at all. 88-90 with little movement, not much deception to his delivery, an average curve, some sort of cutter that doesn’t do a whole lot and not much of a changeup. Sabean saw that pitiful performance from the Giants’ hitters and probably called the Mets right after the game and said “Fuck it, who do we have to give you to get Beltran right now?”
Now if only they would sack up and shitcan that worthless Triple-A pitcher Zito once and for all. If they give me a pair of season tickets for the rest of my life I’ll gladly bash that fucker’s left arm with a bat and kick him in the teeth then burn all of the stuffed animals that fucking faggot carries around on the road with him.[/quote]
Do you think it was worth it to give up our 2nd best prospect, behind Gary Brown, for a rental player this year?
I know Beltran will help the line-up alot, but so far it’s only him and Sandovol. I’m still holding out hope for Huff and Belt to surprise me in October.
[quote]fnf wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beltran isnt in the Mets lineup tonight. [/quote]
Yeah, he’s a Giant now. I think the only reason it hasn’t been finalized yet is that the Mets have agreed to send cash to the Giants as well and they’re just figuring out how much. From what I’ve heard, Beltran has already cleared his locker out in NY and is expected to be in the lineup tomorrow night in Philly.
The Giants gave up a pretty good prospect for him in Zach Wheeler. Word is the guy throws a HARD sinker, almost Kevin Brown-like, which is the best sinker I’ve ever seen and probably ever will. He has a good hard curveball and a halfway decent changeup. In 88 innings this year he has a 3.99 era (which I think is actually supposed to be pretty good for the league he plays in) with 98 strikeouts, an opponents avg of somewhere around .220, BUT he has 49 walks as well.
After watching the game last night, I knew by the end of the day today Beltran would be a Giant. They looked fucking SHIT last night. Worley shoved it right up their ass and that guy is a motherfucking fraud! I hadn’t seen him pitch until yesterday and he isn’t anything special at all. 88-90 with little movement, not much deception to his delivery, an average curve, some sort of cutter that doesn’t do a whole lot and not much of a changeup. Sabean saw that pitiful performance from the Giants’ hitters and probably called the Mets right after the game and said “Fuck it, who do we have to give you to get Beltran right now?”
Now if only they would sack up and shitcan that worthless Triple-A pitcher Zito once and for all. If they give me a pair of season tickets for the rest of my life I’ll gladly bash that fucker’s left arm with a bat and kick him in the teeth then burn all of the stuffed animals that fucking faggot carries around on the road with him.[/quote]
Do you think it was worth it to give up our 2nd best prospect, behind Gary Brown, for a rental player this year?
I know Beltran will help the line-up alot, but so far it’s only him and Sandovol. I’m still holding out hope for Huff and Belt to surprise me in October.[/quote]
I can’t tell you whether or not it’s worth it. We’ll know at the end of October or in a couple years. Obviously, if Wheeler is the Real Deal and Beltran doesn’t do shit then no, it wasn’t worth it. But Beltran IS a proven commodity who gives the Giants a good chance to repeat, better than the chance they had without him anyways. I’m never crazy (in fact, I downright abhor it) giving up good young pitching. I remember when Alex Rios had a great year for the Blue Jays a few years back and everyone on KNBR was demanding that the Giants trade Lincecum or Cain for him. I called in to them and berated the host (can’t remember his name, the guy who’s on weekend nights) because good, young pitching should NEVER be given up.
BUT, when you are the defending World Champs and you have a first place team and you have the chance to directly address the one weakness that could prevent you from repeating, especially when you already have arguably the best staff, 1 through 12, in the majors, you have to take it. I think what makes this a good trade, barring future performances from the players traded, is that the Giants receive cash as well. This gives them extra latitude if they want to pursue another bat and want to assume the entirety of that contract in order to stay away from having to give up another top prospect.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]fnf wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beltran isnt in the Mets lineup tonight. [/quote]
Yeah, he’s a Giant now. I think the only reason it hasn’t been finalized yet is that the Mets have agreed to send cash to the Giants as well and they’re just figuring out how much. From what I’ve heard, Beltran has already cleared his locker out in NY and is expected to be in the lineup tomorrow night in Philly.
The Giants gave up a pretty good prospect for him in Zach Wheeler. Word is the guy throws a HARD sinker, almost Kevin Brown-like, which is the best sinker I’ve ever seen and probably ever will. He has a good hard curveball and a halfway decent changeup. In 88 innings this year he has a 3.99 era (which I think is actually supposed to be pretty good for the league he plays in) with 98 strikeouts, an opponents avg of somewhere around .220, BUT he has 49 walks as well.
After watching the game last night, I knew by the end of the day today Beltran would be a Giant. They looked fucking SHIT last night. Worley shoved it right up their ass and that guy is a motherfucking fraud! I hadn’t seen him pitch until yesterday and he isn’t anything special at all. 88-90 with little movement, not much deception to his delivery, an average curve, some sort of cutter that doesn’t do a whole lot and not much of a changeup. Sabean saw that pitiful performance from the Giants’ hitters and probably called the Mets right after the game and said “Fuck it, who do we have to give you to get Beltran right now?”
Now if only they would sack up and shitcan that worthless Triple-A pitcher Zito once and for all. If they give me a pair of season tickets for the rest of my life I’ll gladly bash that fucker’s left arm with a bat and kick him in the teeth then burn all of the stuffed animals that fucking faggot carries around on the road with him.[/quote]
Do you think it was worth it to give up our 2nd best prospect, behind Gary Brown, for a rental player this year?
I know Beltran will help the line-up alot, but so far it’s only him and Sandovol. I’m still holding out hope for Huff and Belt to surprise me in October.[/quote]
I can’t tell you whether or not it’s worth it. We’ll know at the end of October or in a couple years. Obviously, if Wheeler is the Real Deal and Beltran doesn’t do shit then no, it wasn’t worth it. But Beltran IS a proven commodity who gives the Giants a good chance to repeat, better than the chance they had without him anyways. I’m never crazy (in fact, I downright abhor it) giving up good young pitching. I remember when Alex Rios had a great year for the Blue Jays a few years back and everyone on KNBR was demanding that the Giants trade Lincecum or Cain for him. I called in to them and berated the host (can’t remember his name, the guy who’s on weekend nights) because good, young pitching should NEVER be given up.
BUT, when you are the defending World Champs and you have a first place team and you have the chance to directly address the one weakness that could prevent you from repeating, especially when you already have arguably the best staff, 1 through 12, in the majors, you have to take it. I think what makes this a good trade, barring future performances from the players traded, is that the Giants receive cash as well. This gives them extra latitude if they want to pursue another bat and want to assume the entirety of that contract in order to stay away from having to give up another top prospect.
[/quote]
Agreed, It’s simply a move the Giants had to make. We’re in the unique position to repeat and have little power in our current lineup, thus getting power now and giving up potential down the road is a logical transaction.
It is always nice to get a proven commodity for “could be potential”, but I would have preferred Upton, Rasmus, or Pence instead.
Now that he’s here though, I will fully support Beltran, and hope that his lefty bat can bring us some splash hits, and an eventual October run.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
^ That private instructor is his dad and he is denying it.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/27/rasmus-dad-blasts-tony--la-russa
LaRussa is a head case. The guy drove Scot Rolen out of town and forced the Cardinals to make a bad trade. Now he’s doing the same with Rasmus.
He’s young controllable talent with a ridiculously high ceiling. As for his progression, I haven’t seen him play much but from looking at his stats his HRs increased by 7 and BA by 25 points between '09 and '10. I’ll agree he has taken a step back this year.[/quote]
That’s a copout to blame LaRussa for any of this. Maybe the Cardinals traded Rolen because in both 2005 and 2007 he injured himself and had season-ending surgery rather than follow team doctors’ advice and try to let the injuries heal themselves, thus being able to play in the postseason. Maybe the Cardinals and Tony LaRussa simply “run players out of town” who don’t follow the advice and wishes of their employers, especially when they can’t stay healthy or are not producing.
Same with Rasmus. He has seriously regressed this year and he was expendable. John Jay has played better than him this year. Also, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard about Rasmus and his attitude. He’s been on my fantasy team 3 years in a row so I’ve followed him a little closer than I normally would. The guy has a bit of a reputation for being hard to coach and hard to work with. There was a guy who was performing better than him, is willing to listen to his employers and Rasmus could bring back pitching help in return. So they made the deal. That’s it. I don’t buy Rasmus’ denials of using his father as a hitting coach, either.
I love the trade for Rasmus.
La Russa has an extensive track record of being very impatient(read: bad) with young players. That doesn’t mean Rasums isn’t also a problem. It is impossible for outsiders to know who the main problem is, but the reality is it’s probably a bit of both.
Jays gave up essentially nothing for someone who COULD be awesome. In that division you have to make those kinds of trades whenever you can.
Giants needed Beltran. He’s having an awesome year for sure. The problem with him is health, but, just like the Jays, that’s a risk that they need to take in their current situation. You go for it when your window is open IMO. Championship flags fly forever.
Now let’s get some Nationals chatter up in here! Johnny Gomes baby!!!
sigh
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
^ That private instructor is his dad and he is denying it.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/27/rasmus-dad-blasts-tony--la-russa
LaRussa is a head case. The guy drove Scot Rolen out of town and forced the Cardinals to make a bad trade. Now he’s doing the same with Rasmus.
He’s young controllable talent with a ridiculously high ceiling. As for his progression, I haven’t seen him play much but from looking at his stats his HRs increased by 7 and BA by 25 points between '09 and '10. I’ll agree he has taken a step back this year.[/quote]
That’s a copout to blame LaRussa for any of this. Maybe the Cardinals traded Rolen because in both 2005 and 2007 he injured himself and had season-ending surgery rather than follow team doctors’ advice and try to let the injuries heal themselves, thus being able to play in the postseason. Maybe the Cardinals and Tony LaRussa simply “run players out of town” who don’t follow the advice and wishes of their employers, especially when they can’t stay healthy or are not producing.
Same with Rasmus. He has seriously regressed this year and he was expendable. John Jay has played better than him this year. Also, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard about Rasmus and his attitude. He’s been on my fantasy team 3 years in a row so I’ve followed him a little closer than I normally would. The guy has a bit of a reputation for being hard to coach and hard to work with. There was a guy who was performing better than him, is willing to listen to his employers and Rasmus could bring back pitching help in return. So they made the deal. That’s it. I don’t buy Rasmus’ denials of using his father as a hitting coach, either.[/quote]
Funny, how the negative labels went away as soon as Rolen left STL. There were no complaints about Rolen while he was in Toronto and I haven’t heard anything negative out of Cincinnati. Weird huh?
I don’t know how you can fault Rolen for having season ending surgery, the guy obviously felt his shoulder was not healthy enough to help the team in the playoffs and the injury still nags him today. Anyways, it was still a bad trade and I doubt they would have made it if LaRussa and Rolen were on good terms. LaRussa and Rolen went MONTHS between speaking to each other. Is Glaus even in the League anymore?
As for Rasmus, sure he is “expendable” THIS year for THIS playoff run, but what about a couple years down the road? Hell no, and aside for Mark Rzep, none of the players the Cards received will likely be around after this year.
If you want to draw a parallel why not draw it to Yunel Escobar? in ATL he was categorized as overly flashy, having an attitude problem, poor demeanour and statistically had a terrible year. A year later he’s fielding much better, his BA is up 50 points and he’s easily a top 5 SS in the AL. Except in this situation Yunel is 27 and Rasmus is only 24. Were you expecting him to crash and burn like you do with Rasmus?
Remember the “hard to coach” label is the opinion of ONE organization. He hasn’t been traded around, this isn’t the opinion of several teams just ONE. Even if he ends up exactly as you are predicting he’s making next to nothing the next few years and Jays gave up minimal talent for him.
If this were a non-contending year for the Giants would you not make this deal for a similar set of players?
[quote]scj119 wrote:
I love the trade for Rasmus.
La Russa has an extensive track record of being very impatient(read: bad) with young players. That doesn’t mean Rasums isn’t also a problem. It is impossible for outsiders to know who the main problem is, but the reality is it’s probably a bit of both.
Jays gave up essentially nothing for someone who COULD be awesome. In that division you have to make those kinds of trades whenever you can.
Giants needed Beltran. He’s having an awesome year for sure. The problem with him is health, but, just like the Jays, that’s a risk that they need to take in their current situation. You go for it when your window is open IMO. Championship flags fly forever.[/quote]
Yeah I don’t completely fault the Cardinals for making this trade, except for the Red Sox and Yankees windows for championship are so short. The main criticism I would throw their way is they should have at least waited for the offseason. I hear your Nationals were really interested in Rasmus and I bet they would’ve given up a hell of a lot more in the offseason.
Apparently the Rays offered Nieman and JP Howell for Rasmus, and the Red Sox also made an offer but it was never made public what the Cardinals would potentially receive.
The Giants really had no choice but to make this trade.
If the Giants make the playoffs again this year, what are the chances Aubrey Huff and Cody Ross play at the level they did in the 2010 playoffs?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
^ That private instructor is his dad and he is denying it.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/27/rasmus-dad-blasts-tony--la-russa
LaRussa is a head case. The guy drove Scot Rolen out of town and forced the Cardinals to make a bad trade. Now he’s doing the same with Rasmus.
He’s young controllable talent with a ridiculously high ceiling. As for his progression, I haven’t seen him play much but from looking at his stats his HRs increased by 7 and BA by 25 points between '09 and '10. I’ll agree he has taken a step back this year.[/quote]
That’s a copout to blame LaRussa for any of this. Maybe the Cardinals traded Rolen because in both 2005 and 2007 he injured himself and had season-ending surgery rather than follow team doctors’ advice and try to let the injuries heal themselves, thus being able to play in the postseason. Maybe the Cardinals and Tony LaRussa simply “run players out of town” who don’t follow the advice and wishes of their employers, especially when they can’t stay healthy or are not producing.
Same with Rasmus. He has seriously regressed this year and he was expendable. John Jay has played better than him this year. Also, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard about Rasmus and his attitude. He’s been on my fantasy team 3 years in a row so I’ve followed him a little closer than I normally would. The guy has a bit of a reputation for being hard to coach and hard to work with. There was a guy who was performing better than him, is willing to listen to his employers and Rasmus could bring back pitching help in return. So they made the deal. That’s it. I don’t buy Rasmus’ denials of using his father as a hitting coach, either.[/quote]
Funny, how the negative labels went away as soon as Rolen left STL. There were no complaints about Rolen while he was in Toronto and I haven’t heard anything negative out of Cincinnati. Weird huh?
I don’t know how you can fault Rolen for having season ending surgery, the guy obviously felt his shoulder was not healthy enough to help the team in the playoffs and the injury still nags him today. Anyways, it was still a bad trade and I doubt they would have made it if LaRussa and Rolen were on good terms. LaRussa and Rolen went MONTHS between speaking to each other. Is Glaus even in the League anymore?
As for Rasmus, sure he is “expendable” THIS year for THIS playoff run, but what about a couple years down the road? Hell no, and aside for Mark Rzep, none of the players the Cards received will likely be around after this year.
If you want to draw a parallel why not draw it to Yunel Escobar? in ATL he was categorized as overly flashy, having an attitude problem, poor demeanour and statistically had a terrible year. A year later he’s fielding much better, his BA is up 50 points and he’s easily a top 5 SS in the AL. Except in this situation Yunel is 27 and Rasmus is only 24. Were you expecting him to crash and burn like you do with Rasmus?
Remember the “hard to coach” label is the opinion of ONE organization. He hasn’t been traded around, this isn’t the opinion of several teams just ONE. Even if he ends up exactly as you are predicting he’s making next to nothing the next few years and Jays gave up minimal talent for him.
If this were a non-contending year for the Giants would you not make this deal for a similar set of players?
[/quote]
Look, all of this is speculation, including what I said about Rolen. We’re not in the clubhouse, we’re not in the dugout and we’re not inside the heads of any of the people in question. We don’t know what happened with Rolen in St. Louis and we don’t know what happened with Rasmus in St. Louis. The only thing we DO know is that LaRussa is a winner and, at this point in his career, Rasmus is not.
I understand that LaRussa has a reputation as being tough to play for at times. But Rasmus DOES have a part in all of this. That’s my point here, not that LaRussa is entirely blame-free. Rasmus is only 24 and yet he already has a reputation in the league that isn’t flattering. Did his production go up from 2009 to 2010? Sure, but his strikeouts also went WAY up. His batting average went up 29 points to a less-than robust .279 and now he’s seriously regressed and is batting something like .240.
Maybe all he needs is a change of scenery. The guy is talented for sure. But I don’t like his chances of improving and living up to his potential if he has the same attitude about his time in St. Louis that you have, namely that LaRussa is at fault for his lack of production. He needs to own up to his part in all of this. It’s all he can control.
So why are the Rockies shopping Ubaldo?
Just looking into the park differences between the Rogers Centre and Busch Stadium and Busch Stadium absolutely KILLS left handed power.