Misconceptions of Christianity

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
701

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

This is why I am all for Justice system of the OT, if a man sleeps with a woman before she is married, he automatically (through force of the community) has to marry her and support her.[/quote]

…like this?[/quote]

That is a hilarious. No, I am not a violent man, there are other ways to service justice. Dude is completely out of it, I think they drugged him too. But the Indian music got to me, so I had to stop watching.[/quote]

…but it’s the same kind of justice you propose, isn’t it?
[/quote]

I’m more for the shunning treatment, not beat the man unconscious.

702

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…what’s the difference between not knowing the truth, and not believing this truth is truth at all?
[/quote]

Not knowing the truth, is that out of ignorance you do not know the truth (not that you are stupid), not believing this truth is truth at all, if I am comprehending correctly, that you are not ignorant of the truth, and you know what is Holy, but you deny it’s due anyway.[/quote]

…what does the Catholic Church say is the Truth? Let’s not beat around the bush here: whatever the truth is, i’ll deny its due by not believing it’s truth at all…[/quote]

So you just haven’t in your life seen that Jesus is the Truth?

What is the Truth? Oh jeeze, Bible + Doctrine + Revelation + I’m not sure what else actually. Just those three.[/quote]

…what does that mean, “seen”? Before you can start to “see” you need to believe, right?

703

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

This is why I am all for Justice system of the OT, if a man sleeps with a woman before she is married, he automatically (through force of the community) has to marry her and support her.[/quote]

…like this?[/quote]

That is a hilarious. No, I am not a violent man, there are other ways to service justice. Dude is completely out of it, I think they drugged him too. But the Indian music got to me, so I had to stop watching.[/quote]

…but it’s the same kind of justice you propose, isn’t it?
[/quote]

I’m more for the shunning treatment, not beat the man unconscious.[/quote]

…it’s in quotes Chris, “through force of the community”. Or does that simply mean ignoring someone exists until he bows to the wishes of the community? Either way, that’s a fucked-up way to live…

704

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

This is why I am all for Justice system of the OT, if a man sleeps with a woman before she is married, he automatically (through force of the community) has to marry her and support her.[/quote]

…like this?[/quote]

That is a hilarious. No, I am not a violent man, there are other ways to service justice. Dude is completely out of it, I think they drugged him too. But the Indian music got to me, so I had to stop watching.[/quote]

…but it’s the same kind of justice you propose, isn’t it?
[/quote]

I’m more for the shunning treatment, not beat the man unconscious.[/quote]

…it’s in quotes Chris, “through force of the community”. Or does that simply mean ignoring someone exists until he bows to the wishes of the community? Either way, that’s a fucked-up way to live…
[/quote]

Chris, if a man sleeps with a woman, it was consensual, and she does not get pregnant as a result, why would he need to marry her? What “crime” has been committed here? I’ll give you credit - at least you don’t want to pass a law against this.

BTW - I too went through confirmation at around age 18. Ironically, the priest told us we shouldn’t do it because our parents wanted us to do it but because we desired to be Catholics. At the time I already considered myself an agnostic so I didn’t want to go through with it. My parents, however, didn’t care what the priest said. As long as I lived at home I was going to do it. So I did. I was bored to tears in those confirmation classes. So, I was basically confirmed under duress. As far as I’m concerned, my confirmation was never valid.

705

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

Chris, if a man sleeps with a woman, it was consensual, and she does not get pregnant as a result, why would he need to marry her? What “crime” has been committed here? I’ll give you credit - at least you don’t want to pass a law against this.

[/quote]

You continue to talk as if the actions of individuals are isolated from the whole of the community. Fine, that girl didn’t pregnant. Problems is, many will. They’ll get pregnant even in high school, where your tax dollars will now also provide child care, besides the usual books.

Set the moral bar low, you’ll get low morality. And, you WILL pay for it. They will demand that you pay, and a politician will see the opportunity.

706

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

It’s internal. I PMed ephrem a link to a video series by a psychologist, who is an atheist, who has analogized religious doctrine to a computer virus. He notes that all of the world’s major religions (even Buddhism, he says) have very strict rules about sex.

And he’s not talking about the rules that actually hurt someone, such as “don’t rape,” but rules about practices that hurt no one - a victimless crime. He uses masturbation as an example. This act hurts no other person. Yet every religion prohibits it.

Why? Because everyone is going to do it at some point in their lives, and if we’re talking about teenage boys, we’re talking about a near-daily activity, sometimes more than once. Sexual tension builds up, the teenage boy (if he is very religious) may try his best not to think “dirty” thoughts, read his Bible, pray, whatever, but eventually something will give and he’ll go rub one out.

In his mind he has violated “God’s law” and feels extremely guilty. To assuage his guilt, he goes to church (perhaps to confession if he is Catholic) and asks for forgiveness. He’ll generally get forgiveness, or some form of it, and off he goes. The cycle repeats itself.

This guilt cycle, which has been implanted in the brain by priests, is what keeps most people from rejecting religion. It is emotionally abusive because it causes intense feelings of guilt, perhaps even feelings of depression, for no good reason other than to force people to remain with a particular religion.

This is just one method. There are also various hypnotic techniques that preachers use to get people to feel as if the spirit has descended upon them.

Could I get a PM with said links also?[/quote]

Your post doesn’t explicitly say it, but are you implying that the guilt cycle\guilt only exists because of religion?

If not what is your stance on a natural cause for guilt?

707

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
<<< Tirib, I would be very interested to hear your experience that lead to your conversion. I promise I won’t make fun of you. I know that I sometimes don’t keep my promise, but that’s usually when I get pissed off. As yet you haven’t done that. In fact, you’ve been understanding towards my point of view, probably because you were once a non-religious person yourself.[/quote]I haven’t seen you fail to keep any promises so I’m not sure what you mean by that. Whether you would make fun of me or not would have zero influence on what I would choose to share on a forum like this anyway. Nuthin personal. Give me maybe a day or so to pray and think about how to redact my testimony down to a manageable forum post. I have some bits saved that I never posted from when some other threads were going on as well. BTW, I do think I believe you are asking this in good faith. EDIT: (sorta =] )

I did my best. Some of this is from previous posts.

I was raised catholic, but that just naturally fell away as I got older. My parents divorced when I was 4. I hated school despite being exceptionally good at it. I could read and spell at senior high school levels by 3rd grade. They put me in one of these classes for gifted children things and wanted to skip me from 2nd to 4th and then from 3rd to 5th grades. but my mother and step father wouldn’t let them. >>>>>----Fast forward–> I failed 8th grade because I was in jail and otherwise never there practically the whole year finally dropping out of school altogether in 10th grade which should have been 11th. I got myself in sufficient enough trouble with the people I was selling drugs for here in Detroit that it became necessary for me to leave town and I went to Phoenix. I was 17. In short order I wound up homeless (as in sleeping wherever I fell down) for almost a year during which time I was wasted on one thing or another and in and out of jail.

I ended up in alcoholics anonymous through a court order where I actually did get off the drugs and alcohol though I eventually found the whole thing pretty idiotic(still do). That’s where I met Bobby. The guy that led me to the Lord. I saw him speak at a meeting. He was really different. He told everybody, among other things, in his calm confident, but not arrogant manner that God is GOD. He is not some idol you call “higher power” as you understand him.(abbreviated version) I was oddly intrigued. The girlfriend I was sitting with was not at all thrilled, but I called Bobby over anyway. I wasn’t even sure what I was going to say to him. I had very long hair and was dressed in my then typical skin tight n half naked rivethead heavy metal garb complete with chrome studded black leather dog collar and wrist bands.

I have never known anybody else like this guy. After a minute of my stammering small talk and him just looking at me intently he interrupted and said “I know what you’re trying to ask me even though you don’t. If you want answers come to my place tomorrow night at 7”. He wrote an address (no phone number) on a scrap of paper, handed it to me and turned around and walked away. I didn’t even have a driver’s license never mind a car, but I rode my bicycle 12 miles across Phoenix to his apartment not even sure why I was going there. He answered the door and asked me in like I was SUPPOSED to be there. He wasn’t the least bit surprised to see me. He got right to it, asking me what I believed about God and heaven etc. As I sat confidently declaring all my qualifications for heaven, if there was one, Bobby just blankly looked at me smoking his pipe. He was an uneducated, not particularly well spoken former street hustler 20 years my senior, scarred, missing teeth and black as the ace of spades. At that time the very last person on Earth one would think God would use to reach an arrogant self absorbed 20 year old white kid.

He did not argue with me. He bent forward, looked me right in the eye and told me “Son, you are a sinner just like me. Guilty before the throne of holy and just God and you will be sentenced to eternal death and damnation if you continue on this path of rebellion”.

I was stunned and sat there for a minute my mouth hanging open, but what I now recognize as the not only holy and just, but also loving and merciful spirit of the living God told me in the depths of my being that he was right. I was already being made alive with Christ in heavenly places. It was almost like slow motion. I sheepishly asked him “what do I do?” He said “confess to Him that without the saving blood and resurrected life of Jesus Christ you are as a child of the first Adam born in sin and worthy of the full wrath of his justice and ask him to save you”.

I almost laughed, “that’s it?” “That’s it” he said. “He will honor the eternal covenant made with his eternal Son and make you a brother of Christ of which he himself is the firstborn by giving you his very life in the promise of the Holy Spirit dwelling in your heart”. (paraphrases)

I did and so did He. It’s been a rocky road at times and despite my disgraceful excuse-less backsliding for a while, even in the depths of drunken despair when I begged him (and much much worse) to just leave me alone I knew he was there and he never took his loving hand off my life. Quite the contrary. Like I say, the worse I was the nearer He drew Himself to me until it drove me to my knees in tearful repentance. For the past 5 plus years my faith has been greatly renewed again. The crushing pressure of being unemployed and trying to provide for my family, far from bringing discouragement, division and fear has been an opportunity for my wife and I to reach never before dreamed of peace and devotion to one another in Him. “Whom the Lord loves he disciplines and he chastens every son whom he receives”.

This is more than I’ve ever told anybody about myself online, but it is still the very short version. I can hear your psycho babbling humanistic diagnosis already, but as you probably guessed I couldn’t possibly care less what any of you people think though you’re welcome to bring it on.

708

[quote]Sloth wrote:

You continue to talk as if the actions of individuals are isolated from the whole of the community.[/quote]

Yes, that is exactly how I live. I am a very private person - stay the hell out of my business and I’ll stay the hell out of yours. I’m also cynical. I’ve learned long ago that I’ll never be able to save the world, and now I doubt I’ll even save my neighborhood block. I focus only on myself and my family. That’s it. Everyone else’s problems are just that - their problems.

[quote]Sloth wrote: Set the moral bar low, you’ll get low morality.

[/quote]

I agree, which is why I try to set a good example for my family. But I’m not naive to think that if we replace everything on television with Leave it to Beaver reruns our social problems will be solved. Sure, some teenagers engage in sex because they saw sex on television. Some do it to piss off their parents. I don’t like people telling me how to behave because I might be a “bad influence.” That’s that whole “nanny state” idea I always rant against. I’m not a nanny for someone else’s kids. If someone doesn’t do a good job of raising their kids or can’t act responsibly it’s not my job to do it for them. People will always be irresponsible and stupid. Sometimes, you just can’t fix stupid.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And, you WILL pay for it. They will demand that you pay, and a politician will see the opportunity.
[/quote]

If they’re legal adults than the law requires the father to pay child support regardless of whether or not they’ve been married.

709

Tiribulus, thanks very much for your post. No, I won’t try to psychoanalyze you. Obviously, religion has helped turn your life around and I think that’s great, I really do. I won’t try to mess with good results, and I wish you the best going forward.

BTW - The whole breaking a promise thing involved a post on evolution where I promised to have a serious discussion and ended up making fun of Pushharder for believing in fairy tales. He accused me of breaking my promise to have a serious discussion and I probably did. Then again, Push will be Push.

711

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

So I know the Bible is true, because I tested it . . . Have you personally tested it or are you just parroting what someone else has stated . . . who’s being intellectually dishonest now?

[/quote]

ROFLMMFAO!!!

Prove there is a dome above the earth, holding up water, that the sun and moon are set into. Right now.[/quote]

Why would I want to prove your silly statement true - it’s not a bible verse . . . . LMAO![/quote]

I’m going to start calling you Assless.

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

…but you already knew this because you’ve extensively studied the historical accuracy of every word in the bible (nevermind that such a task would take several lifetimes to complete).

So, yeah. Firmament. Waters above, waters below, yeah?[/quote]

did you see anything there talking about a dome? nope . . . didn’t think so - so your first statement is not a bible verse as I indicated . . . so you proved yourself wrong . . . now I will finish the job.

The verse that you quote says (literally in hebrew - translated without addition)

“Said God let there be an expanse the midst of the water become separate among the water the water. Made God the expanse and separated among the water which under the expanse from the water which above the expanse, and it was so. Called God the expanse heaven and there was evening and there was morning day a second.”

if you will look at the verse in context, God is working with the universe - the earth is as of yet unformed. He had already plainly stated in the preceding verses that the earth was void and without form - ie, did not yet exist. He first made light, and then he made the expanse of the universe. This verse is the very creation of the planet.

The word picture is of a great cosmic soup (the word water is figuratively used for juice) and he is dividing up this soup into specific planets. He does not say what he is doing with the rest of the water, but the implication is that he is using it to create the other planets of the universe, but since the focus here is on earth, he is creating the form of the plant from the substance of the universe. This is held true because in the next verses, he divides the oceans from the land forming the first continent.

The earth starts out void/without form - part of the cosmic “waters”, God divides a portion off for the substance and form of the earth and creates the planet. Basically the same accretion process as described by evolutionists in planetary formation except with the direct guided hand and purpose of God actively creating the planet. Seems pretty accurate scientifically to me . . . the earth is made of the same substance as the rest of the planets and the space dividing up the universe is called heaven . . .

Your entire criticism is based off of a poor reading of an English translation . . …

[/quote]

LMAO!!!

“The Firmament is the usual English translation of the Hebrew “raqiya`” (pronounced /raki’ja/ in English) meaning an extended solid surface or dome, considered to be a hemisphere above the ground[1] in many Near Eastern cosmologies.”

So wait, you’re suggesting that all the planets were originally just water? And the “firmament” is just the space between the planets? What about stars and stuff?

712

Ok, you meant space between the universe and heaven. Still leaves the “earth is made of the same substance as the rest of the planets” part.

713

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…what’s the difference between not knowing the truth, and not believing this truth is truth at all?
[/quote]

Not knowing the truth, is that out of ignorance you do not know the truth (not that you are stupid), not believing this truth is truth at all, if I am comprehending correctly, that you are not ignorant of the truth, and you know what is Holy, but you deny it’s due anyway.[/quote]

…what does the Catholic Church say is the Truth? Let’s not beat around the bush here: whatever the truth is, i’ll deny its due by not believing it’s truth at all…[/quote]

So you just haven’t in your life seen that Jesus is the Truth?

What is the Truth? Oh jeeze, Bible + Doctrine + Revelation + I’m not sure what else actually. Just those three.[/quote]

…what does that mean, “seen”? Before you can start to “see” you need to believe, right?
[/quote]

Um, no. If you know that Jesus is Truth and you see Jesus’ works and you say it’s not Jesus.

Example, if I see a miracle, or I see grace working, and I say that it’s the Devil working or it is just chemicals or something like that when I know better. That is Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

714

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

This is why I am all for Justice system of the OT, if a man sleeps with a woman before she is married, he automatically (through force of the community) has to marry her and support her.[/quote]

…like this?[/quote]

That is a hilarious. No, I am not a violent man, there are other ways to service justice. Dude is completely out of it, I think they drugged him too. But the Indian music got to me, so I had to stop watching.[/quote]

…but it’s the same kind of justice you propose, isn’t it?
[/quote]

I’m more for the shunning treatment, not beat the man unconscious.[/quote]

…it’s in quotes Chris, “through force of the community”. Or does that simply mean ignoring someone exists until he bows to the wishes of the community? Either way, that’s a fucked-up way to live…
[/quote]

Yeah, well I am not forcing anyone to be part of my religion either. I just think it is fucking stupid to join a religion and then not follow the Doctrines, &c.

715

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

This is why I am all for Justice system of the OT, if a man sleeps with a woman before she is married, he automatically (through force of the community) has to marry her and support her.[/quote]

…like this?[/quote]

That is a hilarious. No, I am not a violent man, there are other ways to service justice. Dude is completely out of it, I think they drugged him too. But the Indian music got to me, so I had to stop watching.[/quote]

…but it’s the same kind of justice you propose, isn’t it?
[/quote]

I’m more for the shunning treatment, not beat the man unconscious.[/quote]

…it’s in quotes Chris, “through force of the community”. Or does that simply mean ignoring someone exists until he bows to the wishes of the community? Either way, that’s a fucked-up way to live…
[/quote]

Chris, if a man sleeps with a woman, it was consensual, and she does not get pregnant as a result, why would he need to marry her? What “crime” has been committed here? I’ll give you credit - at least you don’t want to pass a law against this.
[/quote]

That’s the Anarchist in me.

Why? All kinds of reasons, I am sure none that will be convincing to you.

  • Support, really.
  • Nuclear family unit.
  • Community, if one person sees two people sleeping out of wedlock and think it is okay, then they have sex out of wedlock and she gets pregnant.
  • Because most times when people are sleeping out of wedlock they use birth control and that goes against G-d’s will for the purpose of sex.

[quote]
BTW - I too went through confirmation at around age 18. Ironically, the priest told us we shouldn’t do it because our parents wanted us to do it but because we desired to be Catholics. At the time I already considered myself an agnostic so I didn’t want to go through with it. My parents, however, didn’t care what the priest said. As long as I lived at home I was going to do it. So I did. I was bored to tears in those confirmation classes. So, I was basically confirmed under duress. As far as I’m concerned, my confirmation was never valid.[/quote]

Your family is part of it definitely but you’ll have to ask an apologetic that knows more about that to know if it was in fact not valid. I am sure there is some kind of will that goes a long with it.

716

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…what does that mean, “seen”? Before you can start to “see” you need to believe, right?
[/quote]

Um, no. If you know that Jesus is Truth and you see Jesus’ works and you say it’s not Jesus.

Example, if I see a miracle, or I see grace working, and I say that it’s the Devil working or it is just chemicals or something like that when I know better. That is Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.[/quote]

…just to get this clear: only a person like you, who is a devout catholic, could blaspheme against the holy ghost because you believe it’s all true and have seen Jesus’ works?

717

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Tiribulus, thanks very much for your post. No, I won’t try to psychoanalyze you. >>>[/quote]Yes you will, you just maybe won’t tell ME about it =] [quote]MikeTheBear wrote:BTW - The whole breaking a promise thing involved a post on evolution where I promised to have a serious discussion and ended up making fun of Pushharder for believing in fairy tales. He accused me of breaking my promise to have a serious discussion and I probably did. Then again, Push will be Push.[/quote]If I have nothing else to do at the moment I may glance in one of these creation/evolution, abortion, prayer in schools etc. threads, but not that often and I practically never post in them. I never saw what you’re talking about.

I am not outraged in the least by unbelievers acting like unbelievers. That’s what they’re supposed to do and their scorn brings no reproach on the name of Christ. The visible church needs to worry about policing herself, not the world at large. It’s those claiming to be Christ’s own who by their words and lives are capable of dishonoring and misrepresenting Him before the world that we are commanded to judge and denounce.

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you."1 Corinthians 5:12-13

It demonstrates a severe deficit in one’s understanding of sin, which starts with their own, to believe that sloppily pasting Christians principles or laws on the face of godless pagan society hell bent on destroying itself will make a shred of difference. On one level it’s a curiously ironic form of elitist collectivism whereby it’s somehow contrived that the group can be forced into practicing the private morality of a minority of it’s members and that without even the transforming spiritual power the minority’s belief system proclaims is necessary for that morality to be consistently practiced.

The church needs to get the beam out her own eye before she starts beating up on unbelievers for the specks in theirs.

718

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

LMAO!!!

“The Firmament is the usual English translation of the Hebrew “raqiya`” (pronounced /raki’ja/ in English) meaning an extended solid surface or dome, considered to be a hemisphere above the ground[1] in many Near Eastern cosmologies.”

So wait, you’re suggesting that all the planets were originally just water? And the “firmament” is just the space between the planets? What about stars and stuff?[/quote]

really - that’s all you have? more weak english translation-based examples?

Once again, your “definition” is not based on Hebrew, but on English translations. The “usual” translation is not substantive proof of anything except that translators differ in their opinions of how the word is to be translated. The example you quote is merely that - the word “raqia” has one meaning expanse - which is usually applied to describe an extended visible surface - but the quality of being an extended visible surface is not demanded by the text - thus the rule is that the base definition applies since nothing contextually demands the use of an alternate descriptive. Thus, the expanse of the universe, not a dome.

“Expanse” can be used in two ways - the width (expanse as a visible surface - ie, the ocean surface) or the depth (expanse as totality - ie the whole ocean inclusive of depth). Neither one negates the properties of the other. Just because something has a visible surface, this does not negate the quality of depth or rank, and just because something has depth, this does not negate the quality of surface.

All you are accomplishing is demonstrating your own ignorance and inability to see beyond the tortured abuse of a text.

Water? really . . . that’s the best you have? Water, fluid, liquid - whatever version of liquid substance you would like to use - go ahead . . . The word is even used for semen - you know - creative liquid? Stars? Have you not read the chapter? Those are created as well . . . The point is that your demand - that the text read God made a dome and put water on one side and water on another side and hung the sun and moon on that dome - is not textually or doctrinally accurate.

You want it to read that specific way so that you have something to criticize. I have shown that a reading of the original does not support your tortured translation, thus removing the validity of your argument. Your argument rest entireley on a single choice of translation - one not supported by the text, not demanded by the text and even when used within the text does not demand the result you are trying to force upon it . . .

give it up and stop trying to use other people’s words to prove your point. As I said originally, you’re just a parrot . . . and you’re out of your league . . .

719

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …just to get this clear: only a person like you, who is a devout catholic, could blaspheme against the holy ghost because you believe it’s all true and have seen Jesus’ works?
[/quote]What is your preoccupation with blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am not getting into the somewhat involved exegetical, expositional meat here, but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a not a single act committed in a point in time. You haven’t committed it and you won’t be able to by consciously trying. Your object lesson is impossible. Give it up.

720

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …just to get this clear: only a person like you, who is a devout catholic, could blaspheme against the holy ghost because you believe it’s all true and have seen Jesus’ works?
[/quote]What is your preoccupation with blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am not getting into the somewhat involved exegetical, expositional meat here, but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a not a single act committed in a point in time. You haven’t committed it and you won’t be able to by consciously trying. Your object lesson is impossible. Give it up.[/quote]

…i’m asking a question here, that’s all…