Misconceptions of Christianity 2

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
<<< Having the discussions I have with every one of you on this website only encourages me to walk more with my God. I have spent more time meditating on his word, and what he wants us to be because of you all. I would like to thank all of you for what you are doing and did not even know you were doing it. God is using you all for his greater good. I am wrestling now with the tough questions. I want to hear God, and I get that in his word. >>>[/quote]I couldn’t agree more with every word of this. The whole experience of interacting with all kinds of people here has been edifying and helpful. Rereading my own posts at times has been an unpleasant reminder of the remaining arrogance in my own heart that never seems to quite take it’s last breath.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
If you want to know God do this

Matthew 7:7-8 7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

I promise if you spend some time seeking God you will find him. [/quote]
Agreed again.

62

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I will not speak for Katz, but in my own personal life I will agree with all you have just posted. I can see why you hate Christianity because of the Christians. I almost went the same path as you do. The most hurt I have ever felt has come from Christians especially my pastors. One was a mentor who cheated on his wife. Another cared more for the money in his pocket then helping people in his congregation that were volunteering that were unemployed. God blessed me and taught me a lot in those times. There was a string of 10 years that I thought God could not exist. He has changed that thinking of mine. He blesses me daily.

I will say coming on to T-Nation actually showed me that God does exist. Having the discussions I have with every one of you on this website only encourages me to walk more with my God. I have spent more time meditating on his word, and what he wants us to be because of you all. I would like to thank all of you for what you are doing and did not even know you were doing it. God is using you all for his greater good. I am wrestling now with the tough questions. I want to hear God, and I get that in his word.

If you want to know God do this

Matthew 7:7-8 7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

I promise if you spend some time seeking God you will find him. [/quote]

First, I appreciate the positive post and not piling on with all the atheist/agnostic bashing.

Second, “hate” is a strong word, but any “hate” I may have applies to all religions. For instance, I think Islam is an extremely violent and repugnant religion. I approach Christianity with a certain skepticism. This is especially true when people make the claim that Christianity will solve all of our moral and social problems and atheism is a path to destruction. I then think back to all of those Christians who were less than Christian and I have to ask the question, “Does Christianity really make people good?” For some, yes; for many others, no.

Finally, I have never denied the possibility that some type of god exists. I see myself as being on a journey to find God. To this end, I’ve read up on Christianity as well as other religions. I’ve also read a lot about atheism as I don’t think this question can be answered without understanding the arguments for a disbelief in God. As yet, I have not seen evidence or arguments that has convinced me without a doubt that there is a God. And that is where I stand at the moment. I don’t worship myself, or money, or power, nor do I wish to shake the moral foundations of society. I am simply searching for answers to my questions, and I am comfortable with the fact that they may never be answered.

63

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Again you are falling into the trap of accusing Hitchens of not being as good as the picture the Church and the woman herself paints of Mother Teresa and therefore discounting what he wrote (which I doubt you have actually read).[/quote]

So wait, wait, wait. We’re supposed to take you and Hitchens seriously because she was, let’s say, 5 thousands times more the physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens. As opposed to 6 thousand times physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens deem she should’ve been. So not only are you and Hitchens detached from any obligation to charity, therefore immune to criticism about your own degree of charity, you can turn right around and play arm chair quarterback about how much or how she engaged the poor and the dying.

This is atheism.

64

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I will not speak for Katz, but in my own personal life I will agree with all you have just posted. I can see why you hate Christianity because of the Christians. I almost went the same path as you do. The most hurt I have ever felt has come from Christians especially my pastors. One was a mentor who cheated on his wife. Another cared more for the money in his pocket then helping people in his congregation that were volunteering that were unemployed. God blessed me and taught me a lot in those times. There was a string of 10 years that I thought God could not exist. He has changed that thinking of mine. He blesses me daily.

I will say coming on to T-Nation actually showed me that God does exist. Having the discussions I have with every one of you on this website only encourages me to walk more with my God. I have spent more time meditating on his word, and what he wants us to be because of you all. I would like to thank all of you for what you are doing and did not even know you were doing it. God is using you all for his greater good. I am wrestling now with the tough questions. I want to hear God, and I get that in his word.

If you want to know God do this

Matthew 7:7-8 7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

I promise if you spend some time seeking God you will find him. [/quote]

First, I appreciate the positive post and not piling on with all the atheist/agnostic bashing.

Second, “hate” is a strong word, but any “hate” I may have applies to all religions. For instance, I think Islam is an extremely violent and repugnant religion. I approach Christianity with a certain skepticism. This is especially true when people make the claim that Christianity will solve all of our moral and social problems and atheism is a path to destruction. I then think back to all of those Christians who were less than Christian and I have to ask the question, “Does Christianity really make people good?” For some, yes; for many others, no.

Finally, I have never denied the possibility that some type of god exists. I see myself as being on a journey to find God. To this end, I’ve read up on Christianity as well as other religions. I’ve also read a lot about atheism as I don’t think this question can be answered without understanding the arguments for a disbelief in God. As yet, I have not seen evidence or arguments that has convinced me without a doubt that there is a God. And that is where I stand at the moment. I don’t worship myself, or money, or power, nor do I wish to shake the moral foundations of society. I am simply searching for answers to my questions, and I am comfortable with the fact that they may never be answered.[/quote]

Christianity in it purest context will be able to solve all our moral and social problems. I think what puts a kink in all of it is us fallen sinful Humans. We distort what God truely wants for us. I will never say that life will be easy because that is not what is promised. All God promises is that he will be there for us. God wants to help and love us. Below is a link to a poem that I truely love. You want to know what God does for some please read the poem.

65

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.

66

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< "There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know. (John Heywood 1546)
Though I am sure that you would throw the same back at me[/quote]
[i]So come lose your life for a carpenter’s son
For a madman who died for a dream
And you’ll have the faith His first followers had
And you’ll feel the weight of the beam
So surrender the hunger to say you must know
Have the courage to say I believe
For the power of God’s paradox opens your eyes
And blinds those who say they can see

We in our foolishness thought we were wise
He played the fool and He opened our eyes
We in our weakness believed we were strong
He became helpless to show we were wrong
And so we follow God’s own fool
For only the foolish can tell-
Believe the unbelievable
And come be a fool as well[/i]

Michael Card

67

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.[/quote]

…you wouldn’t want give a bald man a haircut, would you? Yet you insist that that bald man needs a haircut, when there’s no hair to be cut. He is bald. There’s no hair. No hair. At all. Insisting the bald man needs a haircut, that he’s wrong to believe he’s bald, altough anyone can see he has no hair and thus a haircut is unnecessary, is folly. I’m going to bed now, to hopefully sleep a dreamless sleep, and i’ll check this thread tomorrow confident that nothing’s changed…

68

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.[/quote]

…you wouldn’t want give a bald man a haircut, would you? Yet you insist that that bald man needs a haircut, when there’s no hair to be cut. He is bald. There’s no hair. No hair. At all. Insisting the bald man needs a haircut, that he’s wrong to believe he’s bald, altough anyone can see he has no hair and thus a haircut is unnecessary, is folly. I’m going to bed now, to hopefully sleep a dreamless sleep, and i’ll check this thread tomorrow confident that nothing’s changed…[/quote]

You did admit there that he has a belief about the state of his head though.

69

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< I’m going to bed now, to hopefully sleep a dreamless sleep, >>>[/quote]And it appears just in the nick of time too. I think you need some =] If there is not a deeper meaning than the apparently obvious in your bald man story, I must confess I’m disappointed. After your last neo-metaphysical self contemplation my standard for you had been raised. [quote]ephrem wrote:
and I’ll check this thread tomorrow confident that nothing’s changed…[/quote]Don’t be late and have us all worried. I just love the way these guys can’t stay away from these threads LOL!

70

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Again you are falling into the trap of accusing Hitchens of not being as good as the picture the Church and the woman herself paints of Mother Teresa and therefore discounting what he wrote (which I doubt you have actually read).[/quote]

So wait, wait, wait. We’re supposed to take you and Hitchens seriously because she was, let’s say, 5 thousands times more the physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens. As opposed to 6 thousand times physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens deem she should’ve been. So not only are you and Hitchens detached from any obligation to charity, therefore immune to criticism about your own degree of charity, you can turn right around and play arm chair quarterback about how much or how she engaged the poor and the dying.

This is atheism.

[/quote]

No she was an evil woman who needlessly prolonged and worsened the suffering of others instead of trying to help them.

71

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.[/quote]

Not at all, I am open minded, therefore I am open to the idea that I may be dogmatic. Give me strong evidence that I am and I will accept that I am dogmatic.

72

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.[/quote]

…you wouldn’t want give a bald man a haircut, would you? Yet you insist that that bald man needs a haircut, when there’s no hair to be cut. He is bald. There’s no hair. No hair. At all. Insisting the bald man needs a haircut, that he’s wrong to believe he’s bald, altough anyone can see he has no hair and thus a haircut is unnecessary, is folly. I’m going to bed now, to hopefully sleep a dreamless sleep, and i’ll check this thread tomorrow confident that nothing’s changed…[/quote]

You did admit there that he has a belief about the state of his head though.[/quote]

Based on evidence. Though if someone provides evidence of hair, he will accept he is not bald.

73

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Again you are falling into the trap of accusing Hitchens of not being as good as the picture the Church and the woman herself paints of Mother Teresa and therefore discounting what he wrote (which I doubt you have actually read).[/quote]

So wait, wait, wait. We’re supposed to take you and Hitchens seriously because she was, let’s say, 5 thousands times more the physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens. As opposed to 6 thousand times physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens deem she should’ve been. So not only are you and Hitchens detached from any obligation to charity, therefore immune to criticism about your own degree of charity, you can turn right around and play arm chair quarterback about how much or how she engaged the poor and the dying.

This is atheism.

[/quote]

No she was an evil woman who needlessly prolonged and worsened the suffering of others instead of trying to help them.[/quote]

If she was evil then you MUST be a monster. Not one person would believe you or Hitchens has done more for the sick, the orphaned, and the dying than that nun.

74

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.[/quote]

…you wouldn’t want give a bald man a haircut, would you? Yet you insist that that bald man needs a haircut, when there’s no hair to be cut. He is bald. There’s no hair. No hair. At all. Insisting the bald man needs a haircut, that he’s wrong to believe he’s bald, altough anyone can see he has no hair and thus a haircut is unnecessary, is folly. I’m going to bed now, to hopefully sleep a dreamless sleep, and i’ll check this thread tomorrow confident that nothing’s changed…[/quote]

You did admit there that he has a belief about the state of his head though.[/quote]

Based on evidence. Though if someone provides evidence of hair, he will accept he is not bald.[/quote]

Wait what? you have evidence for your view?

75

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Again you are falling into the trap of accusing Hitchens of not being as good as the picture the Church and the woman herself paints of Mother Teresa and therefore discounting what he wrote (which I doubt you have actually read).[/quote]

So wait, wait, wait. We’re supposed to take you and Hitchens seriously because she was, let’s say, 5 thousands times more the physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens. As opposed to 6 thousand times physically-on-the-spot-humanitarian than you or Hitchens deem she should’ve been. So not only are you and Hitchens detached from any obligation to charity, therefore immune to criticism about your own degree of charity, you can turn right around and play arm chair quarterback about how much or how she engaged the poor and the dying.

This is atheism.

[/quote]

No she was an evil woman who needlessly prolonged and worsened the suffering of others instead of trying to help them.[/quote]

If she was evil then you MUST be a monster. Not one person would believe you or Hitchens has done more for the sick, the orphaned, and the dying than that nun. [/quote]

Why not? Because we don’t talk about it? because we are not raised up as an example by the Catholic Church?

Teresa did nothing to alleviate the suffering of the sick, the orphaned and the dying.

76

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Why not? Because we don’t talk about it? [/quote]

Don’t even try to imply it…

77

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< I would challenge that. What one thing do I believe dogmatically?[/quote]
That you are not dogmatic.[/quote]

…you wouldn’t want give a bald man a haircut, would you? Yet you insist that that bald man needs a haircut, when there’s no hair to be cut. He is bald. There’s no hair. No hair. At all. Insisting the bald man needs a haircut, that he’s wrong to believe he’s bald, altough anyone can see he has no hair and thus a haircut is unnecessary, is folly. I’m going to bed now, to hopefully sleep a dreamless sleep, and i’ll check this thread tomorrow confident that nothing’s changed…[/quote]

You did admit there that he has a belief about the state of his head though.[/quote]

Based on evidence. Though if someone provides evidence of hair, he will accept he is not bald.[/quote]

Wait what? you have evidence for your view?[/quote]

Evidence of baldness

78

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Why not? Because we don’t talk about it? [/quote]

Don’t even try to imply it…

[/quote]

No seriously, I would say I have done far less evil in my life than Mother Teresa. I am no saint, I have done plenty of things wrong but I have not systematically caused the suffering of thousands of people (unless you count the people that work for me)

79

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

I wouldn’t trust Hitchens with much - I certainly wouldn’t trust him on anything having to do with Christianity. He’s got a major axe to grind; and one can hear the grinding going on in the background every time he puts pen to paper or his toungue wags.

I actually feel sorry for the man; but not enough to believe much of what he says. I hope he gets well. Even more - I hope he comes to his senses; he’s doing an awful lot of damage by spreading his nonsense.

[/quote]
Read the book, he makes his sources very clear. I agree he has an axe to grind against organised religion. His book ‘God is not great’ is pretty clear on that.

His style is to be a contrarian. He looks for people who stick themselves on the pedestal as paragons of virtue then points out the other side to them.

Doesn’t mean he is wrong though.[/quote]

I like his brother, Peter Hitchens.

[/quote]

So do I, they are both very erudite though I disagree with him on a number of things.[/quote]

Like he is a Christian?

80

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Why not? Because we don’t talk about it? [/quote]

Don’t even try to imply it…

[/quote]

No seriously, I would say I have done far less evil in my life than Mother Teresa. I am no saint, I have done plenty of things wrong but I have not systematically caused the suffering of thousands of people (unless you count the people that work for me)[/quote]

Okay, these are just plain lies.