Misconceptions of Christianity 2

Brother_Chris · August 14, 2010, 2:09am

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
This defines faith…

[/quote]

Awesome.[/quote]This defines self righteous and idolatrous works of the flesh. He doesn’t even attempt to bring glory to Christ with this. He says so.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
<<< You know I had this argument come up to me by 2 friends of mine, basically the same argument. They postulate a hypothetical man either from the amazon jungle or the congo; basically someone who has never had the gospel preached to them, heard the name of Jesus etc… and it relates to what pat has quoted. How will God judge said man or is it a moot point because his Revelation is everywhere, interesting to think about.[/quote]Never underestimate Rome brother. They got that covered. I don’t how much studying you guys have done on catholic dogma. However, especially since Vatican II and the adoption of the CCC over the Baltimore Catechism you absolutely cannot imagine the heartburn inducing bog of sophistry surrounding the church’s teaching on “ignorance”.

They cover every last conceivable event and circumstance that even touches the notion of “ignorance” with a slick vocabulary of terms and labels attached to each individual infinitesimal detail. I kid you not. Actually, all their teachings are festooned with mind numbing extra biblical tradition like that. If you doubt this, make sure it’s an off training day, have a double size shake, get a helmet on and do a search for “invincible ignorance”. A simple bible teaching explicable to a 5 year old child becomes a post graduate semester in the hands of men. It’s been a while. I’d semi forgotten. Ubelieveable, really.
[/quote]I guess 2000 years of questions adds up to a lot of variables and questions to answer.[/quote]Only in the minds of carnal fallen men posing as representatives of Christ. Every answer I’ve ever looked for that really mattered has been right there in that bible and the majority not even that tough to find.

I can’t keep doin this or at least I don’t think I can. I’ll finish up what I started here and then I don’t know. I’m hanging on by the tips of my fingernails keeping from sliding back into my previous view that it is not possible to be in communion with Rome and know Christ. I don’t think I’m there, but I forgot how poisonous this crap was.

If you only knew the knot in my throat. Here we have this huge operation reaching all these people with acts of charity and they name it after Mary and say this:

[quote]MacFarlane-Barrow is driven by his Christian faith, but there is no ministry aspect to his work. “We are very careful to never link feeding and faith,” he says. "We serve those who are in need … period.

"When I think of Mary’s Meals I think of it as a series of lots and lots of little acts of love, " he says. “I’ve learned … that every small act of kindness does make a difference.”[/quote]What a filthy stench in the nostrils of a holy God to turn a magnificent opportunity for bringing the Gospel to the lost into an exercise in idolatry. Oh yeah, I forgot. They’re probably OK already because of this abominable 2000 year revision of biblical truth that now falls under some pagan notion of “ignorance”.

Look people. You and your church are gonna have so much to answer for it’s almost too much to bear. I tried. Sloth when you read this my friend I really really tried. I tried to keep things calm and civil, but when I see hundreds of thousands of people having their bellies fed and their souls starved allegedly in the name of the risen Christ (oops Mary) and that held up and hailed as a great example of Christian faith we are not talkin about the same Gospel.[/quote]

Wow, so we get berated for our view that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church (Luther and Calvin both held this as well, except in their respective denominations), and we get berated in the next breath for saying that if of no fault of their own they have not heard the Good News, they can possible be saved. Thanks for condemning me by the way, I know you didn’t say it. Doesn’t mean I cannot infer.

blacksheep · August 14, 2010, 3:18pm

Stated,

“… you hear testimonies of people coming to Christ through personal revelations in countries like Saudi Arabia without ever receiving the gospel from a person.”

That would be wonderful news but it is not scriptural.

Romans 10:13-14

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”

Paul states that it is the responsibility of the Church to get the Word to everyone. He has already shown in chapters 1 and 2 that even pagan Gentiles who had not heard the written Word did have the unwritten revelation of God in creation (Rom. 1:18-20) and in their conscience (Rom. 2:6-16).

The only way, however, that the pagan can ever find salvation is to hear the Word in some way. Scripture indicates that the person who does not have the Bible but walks in all the light he has will be given more light. Examples are Abraham, Ruth, Rahab, the Ethiopian eunuch, and Cornelius. If we could see God’s agenda in heaven, we would see that he has someone in mind to take the good news to every unreached person.

In the Great Commission, recorded five times (Matt. 28:19-20; Mark 15:16; Luke 24:47-49; John 20:21-23; Acts 1:8), Jesus made clear that the responsibility for taking the good news of salvation rest on His followers. The responsibility of each human being to God (Rom. 1:18 to 3:20) in no way lessens the responsibility of every Christian to do his part in taking the gospel to every creature.

But faith or belief in this gospel depends on hearing it; and this requires preaching; and preaching requires pastors, evangelists, and missionaries carrying the good news to all parts of the world.

The preacher must be sent. He must be God-called. God calls, but men do not hear. Jesus charged the Church to pray that God would send forth laborers (Matt. 9:37-38). How will people hear without a preacher? Preaching is God’s plan (I Cor. 1:21). There are other means of declaring the message, but they must never replace preaching. Righteousness is proclaimed by preaching. If salvation comes to all who call on the lord, then it is imperative that all hear so they can know on whom to call.

Romans 10:17

“So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”

With regard to the question of hearing (Rom. 10:14), salvation is not imparted apart from the word of God (John 5:24; Acts 10:44; Eph. 1:3). And with regard to believing, lost men cannot call without believing. Here is where faith enters in.

Why do the heathen bow to idols of wood and stone? It may be because no one ever told them of the living God and the loving Saviour. Or, why do honest people sincerely believe in the perpetual sacrifice of Christ? It may because no one has ever taught them that Jesus died once for all on the cross, and the price was fully paid. All one needs to do is repent and believe, and sin will be cleansed away, never to be remembered against the sinner again. Or, why do Jewish friends seek the answer through following the legalism of the Law? Could it be because they have not understood that Isaiah 53 pictures their Messiah?

To receive this message of salvation requires faith. The simple truth is that faith comes from hearing the Word of God. The Word is the source of all true faith. The faith which the word produces brings an awareness of God to the soul. By faith the believer hears God’s voice. Faith enables the believer to walk through deep waters and suffer in the furnace of afflictions, for he sees God’s hand in all things. Faith which the Word produces enables the believer to exercise confidence in God and to believe Him for impossible things.

The energizing power of the Word assures us that if we will attune our ears to hear, our faith will be quickened and God will work wondrous things on our behalf.

The word must be preached. The word must be heard. The Word must be believed. That requires the listener to act in faith on the facts of the Word as presented.

JoabSonOfZeruiah · August 14, 2010, 4:45am

Thanks for your reply blacksheep, tirib ill make sure to look into it later lol.

Tiribulus · August 14, 2010, 5:50am

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< Wow, so we get berated for our view that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church (Luther and Calvin both held this as well, except in their respective denominations), and we get berated in the next breath for saying that if of no fault of their own they have not heard the Good News, they can possible be saved. Thanks for condemning me by the way, I know you didn’t say it. Doesn’t mean I cannot infer.[/quote]I don’t know what I can tell you Chris. It took me a few days to get over the exchange with Sloth a couple weeks ago and now I’ve been bummed all night about this again too. It’s been a while since I’ve had this stuff laid bare in front of my face and I’m being reminded of how hideously un and even anti Christian this garbage is.

Don’t you understand? I cannot help it. I’m not angry, I’m bewildered. This is a most difficult part of divine providence for me. That He allows such a horrendous bloated engine of deception to hold sway over so many hundreds of millions of people. I HATE this situation more than you can know , but feeding a lot of people in the name of Mary and hiding Jesus from them because you think they’re already right with God, which is what this “Mary’s Meals’s” thing amounts to, is a damnable practice of human arrogance not an awesome definition of faith. I cannot fathom trying to explain that at the judgment seat of Christ. It’s the very definition of everything especially Paul warned us about. If want an actually scriptural definition of faith read the entire 11th of Hebrews for God’s sake!

I have to get some sleep. I am not necessarily seeing YOU, Chris, as being condemned by the true gospel of the bible, but I have to admit. The more I tune up my studies the harder it gets.
Paul charge against the jews can go for anybody
Romans 10:2-3 [quote]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.[/quote]

Brother_Chris · August 14, 2010, 7:47am

If believing Jesus gave Peter the Keys to Heaven, and built a Church on Peter the Rock as the visible head and foundation of the Church, while Jesus is the invisible head and foundation of the Church is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that salvation is only in the Church, because Jesus gave her the power to loose and bound on earth and that what is will be loosed and bound in Heaven, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing there is the Real Presence in the Eucharist, body and blood, along with Spirit, and is not just a symbol, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing in the communion of Saints is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing in honoring God’s friends the Saints and saints is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is the Catholic Church, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing the Church has authority direct from God, because Jesus did not come to destroy the Law, but fulfill it, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that the Mother of God, perpetual virgin, Blessed Virgin Mary was never with sin and gave virgin birth to Our Lord and Savior, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that you can go to Jesus’ Mother, as the guests did at the wedding, so she on your behalf can ask her Son for your prayers to be answered is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that your salvation is not assumed, and you have to do more than have faith, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that I have no authority to say what Scripture is or isn’t, since I have no authority to do so and I have to rely on someone with authority from God, and of no effort of their own hold the truth, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that there is no invisible church, but instead the Body of Christ, the Mystical Body of Christ, is a sin. Send me to Hell.

If believing in Her and the Holy Catholic Church’s dogmas and truths are a sin. Send me to Hell.

If believing that God setup a indestructible militant army upon this Earth to fight evil, with full hierarchy is a sin. Send me to Hell.

If believing that Jesus and His Mother, who sits at his right hand, sit up the Kingdom of Heaven, is a sin. Send me to Hell.

If submitting to Jesus and his Wife, the Holy Catholic Church is a sin. Send me to Hell.

Because I am Catholic, I am not a Catholic “but” anything. All or nothing. Any dogma that is presented by the Catholic Church, I believe is the truth. I may not know how they work, I may not know all of them and I may think that something is wrong with them. However, I do not have the audacity to challenge 2000 years of truth and the Holy Ghost, because my selfish self thinks I know better than those who God has put in authority to feed his sheep. Instead I come with humility and ask that the Holy Ghost show me the truth.

Yet, you proclaim to know the truth of what the Bible speaks, that my Church’s Apostles wrote and my Church’s councils created, on your own accord, in the half century you have been alive. And, your book even states that there are no private interpretations, so what authority do you have to interpret?

I have zeal for God, I am His Church Militant. I pray for His Church suffering, and hope for the day I join the Church triumphant. I pray that the Holy Ghost gives me His will, and gives me the gift of knowledge. I have no righteousness, except through God. I submit myself before no one except my Lord. And I believe that all that do not kneel before the Lord and submit, at the end of their days will meet before them the fiery wrath of Our Lord. And, [He] will execute great vengeance upon them, rebuking them in fury: and they shall know that [He is] the Lord, when [He] shall lay [His] vengeance upon them.

Godspeed and may the Lord and His Mother keep a watchful eye upon you. Peace, I’m out of here.

JoabSonOfZeruiah · August 14, 2010, 2:11pm

Hey Chris for all of the beliefs that differ from protestants and catholics, is peter being the rock upon which hangs all of the catholic beliefs that differ from protestantism or something else?

Sloth · August 14, 2010, 6:01pm

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Hey Chris for all of the beliefs that differ from protestants and catholics, is peter being the rock upon which hangs all of the catholic beliefs that differ from protestantism or something else?[/quote]

Part of it. But, more generally, Christ did not leave the Bible. He left a church, which absolutely had a ministerial priesthood and hierarchies. From this, the Bible was brought together, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. NOT the other way around. Period. End of story. Full stop. For all the accusations of Catholic idolatry, I often marvel at the ability to take holy scripture and make an idol of it.

There’s some gasoline for this here fire. I’ll check back later. Maybe.

Tiribulus · August 14, 2010, 6:18pm

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If believing Jesus gave Peter the Keys to Heaven, and built a Church on Peter the Rock as the visible head and foundation of the Church, while Jesus is the invisible head and foundation of the Church is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that salvation is only in the Church, because Jesus gave her the power to loose and bound on earth and that what is will be loosed and bound in Heaven, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing there is the Real Presence in the Eucharist, body and blood, along with Spirit, and is not just a symbol, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing in the communion of Saints is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing in honoring God’s friends the Saints and saints is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is the Catholic Church, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing the Church has authority direct from God, because Jesus did not come to destroy the Law, but fulfill it, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that the Mother of God, perpetual virgin, Blessed Virgin Mary was never with sin and gave virgin birth to Our Lord and Savior, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that you can go to Jesus’ Mother, as the guests did at the wedding, so she on your behalf can ask her Son for your prayers to be answered is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that your salvation is not assumed, and you have to do more than have faith, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that I have no authority to say what Scripture is or isn’t, since I have no authority to do so and I have to rely on someone with authority from God, and of no effort of their own hold the truth, is a sin. Send me to Hell.
If believing that there is no invisible church, but instead the Body of Christ, the Mystical Body of Christ, is a sin. Send me to Hell.

If believing in Her and the Holy Catholic Church’s dogmas and truths are a sin. Send me to Hell.

If believing that God setup a indestructible militant army upon this Earth to fight evil, with full hierarchy is a sin. Send me to Hell.

If believing that Jesus and His Mother, who sits at his right hand, sit up the Kingdom of Heaven, is a sin. Send me to Hell.

If submitting to Jesus and his Wife, the Holy Catholic Church is a sin. Send me to Hell.[/quote]I am not willing to go to hell for ANYTHING. NOTHING. No man I refuse to call father, no woman falsely exalted against her will, no pretended vicar of Christ and no unholy abomination with the flagrant audacity to call itself “the holy apostolic church” but has been a non stop breeding ground for rank perversion, greed and despotic corruption for the better part of 2 millenia to this day.

It’s a perpetual motion machine of sin. Everything’s at once a cause and a symptom of everything else. Man made teaching leading to man made practice laying the groundwork for more man made teaching and so on until we arrive at today with a spiritual bureaucracy so deep you’d need a team of archaeologists to dig what might be left of the actual God breathed gospel out from under it all. If you don’t go to hell? It will only because my gospel, THEE gospel, powered alone by the shed blood and resurrected life of Christ reconciling you to a God who could not be clearer on His abhorrence for pomp and ceremony is true.[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Because I am Catholic, I am not a Catholic “but” anything. All or nothing. Any dogma that is presented by the Catholic Church, I believe is the truth. I may not know how they work, I may not know all of them and I may think that something is wrong with them. However, I do not have the audacity to challenge 2000 years of truth and the Holy Ghost, because my selfish self thinks I know better than those who God has put in authority to feed his sheep. Instead I come with humility and ask that the Holy Ghost show me the truth.

Yet, you proclaim to know the truth of what the Bible speaks, that my Church’s Apostles wrote and my Church’s councils created, on your own accord, in the half century you have been alive. And, your book even states that there are no private interpretations, so what authority do you have to interpret?[/quote]My book huh? I really do pray it one day becomes yours as well. It’s Rome who has scandalously forced her voluminous private interpretations on the scriptures and that’s not even what that passage in 2nd Peter means anyway. Read until the end of the chapter. That passage is one of those straightforward childlike statements that simply says that scripture was inspired by God and not by man. It’s not even directly addressing what we commonly refer to as “interpretation” today.

That promised apostasy got underway almost before John’s body was cold. It’s exactly as it’s always been. God preserving His truth even in the midst of the entropy of sin. The whole history of the OT nation of Israel was exactly that. Let’s keep reading in 2nd Peter Ch.2. after the “interpretation” passage in ch.1 you made reference to.
2 Peter 2:1-3 "1-But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2-Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3-and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Boy does this sound familiar

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I have zeal for God, I am His Church Militant. I pray for His Church suffering, and hope for the day I join the Church triumphant. I pray that the Holy Ghost gives me His will, and gives me the gift of knowledge. I have no righteousness, except through God. I submit myself before no one except my Lord. And I believe that all that do not kneel before the Lord and submit, at the end of their days will meet before them the fiery wrath of Our Lord. And, [He] will execute great vengeance upon them, rebuking them in fury: and they shall know that [He is] the Lord, when [He] shall lay [His] vengeance upon them.

Godspeed and may the Lord and His Mother keep a watchful eye upon you. Peace, I’m out of here. [/quote]Yesterday you said this in response to a statement of mine about the laity:[quote]We, laity of the Catholic Church (as well as you since you receive these callings from Baptism), are all called to be Kings, Priests, and Prophets. “Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words” which is commonly attributed to St. Francis of Assisi.[/quote]Is that what you’re doing in the sex forum here? A few days ago I was looking for a post of yours and I saw that you had posted in the “Sex and the Male Animal” forum. For my very first time ever I intentionally went into that forum following one of your links expecting to see you there upholding Christian morality because I had come to respect you at least that much. My heart sank as I saw your posts there. This is your witness? That is preaching the gospel at all times? That is what your holy catholic church does for you?

What do you think those people in that forum think when they see you there and then here pontificating about zeal for God, prayer and preaching the gospel through your actions? Aquinas as your avatar? Do you know why this doesn’t occur to you? Because that fake phony gospel of formulas and rituals of yours HAS NO POWER!!! Pat looked at me cross eyed when I mentioned the transforming power of the gospel through the Holy Spirit of God to him. “Power? What power? I’m not lookin for any power and I’m not lookin to transform anybody either” That’s good because the road you’re on is practically a guarantee of success then. That doesn’t matter though right? Because somewhere in all that vast expansive 2000 year labyrinth of “tradition” is your exoneration and theirs.

Your zeal, just like this “Mary’s Meals” guy is not according to knowledge Chris, but according to another gospel of dead works righteousness (Gal. 1) You’d have to be a catholic to misunderstand that chapter. You’re another guy who could be one of Jesus’s golden crowned champions and there you sit neutered by an anemic man made substitute for the gospel which IS the power of God for salvation and sancification to all them that believe. We’ve been praying for you and about 20 other people here (especially Ephrem) for weeks. That will continue and regardless of what you think I am not your enemy.

Brother_Chris · August 14, 2010, 7:20pm

I guess my sacrasm on the YOUR BOOK went over your head. The book you hold as the Holy Bible came from Catholic Church, formed by Catholic Councils, written by Catholic Apostles that were our Bishops and Popes. You’re holding in your hands a Catholic Book.

I am not perfect, I faulter. What’s your point, I suppose you are perfect.

You’re amazing Tirib, for someone that only needs the Bible you sure don’t know it as well as one would think. Faith and works are clearly outlined as things you are ordered to do. The Catholic Church does not teach that their is assumption of salvation with faith and works, either. I know it is a hard concept to grasp that you’d be required to do something that wouldn’t assure your salvation, but that’s it. No one can do anything for their salvation, only Jesus can. It all matters on what the circumstances are when you die, and how Jesus judges your soul.

I do sin, a lot. I was not religious for a long time, I have bad habits. I smoke, I drink, I fight. I cuss, I swear and spit. I am braggart and I hurt the one’s I love. I don’t hear the voice of God, and never have. I pray into darkness, even when I was ‘born again.’ The only thing that holds me to God is reasoning that He is there. He hasn’t blessed me with the gift of hearing or feeling his presence. Unlike most protestants, that doesn’t matter in the Catholic Church, as we come to God through reason and faith.

I’m a terrible cuss, and stubborn as a dead rock, but since I’ve joined the Church, I know that I am doing His deeds, even it is with a grunt and a snarl. I see no good or bad when it comes to people, because when we look to Our Lord, we are all bad. Only have from Protestant Church’s have I seen the segregation between Christians and heathens.

I would rather be perfect and see myself below that of the worst man on earth, than be faulty and think I am the best. I think the real delusion is those on the Protestant Churches, as they delude themselves that they are the reformers, the real reformers were in the Council of Trent. Protestants just protested and revolted against His Church, and now they revolt and protest against their own church’s. Your houses are divided, and no house divided against itself can stand.

People think they have split the Church, well I tell you it is more like cutting off a foot than splitting into two churches. The foot cannot grow into a human, and the body is now just crippled.

Tiribulus · August 14, 2010, 8:41pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Hey Chris for all of the beliefs that differ from protestants and catholics, is peter being the rock upon which hangs all of the catholic beliefs that differ from protestantism or something else?[/quote]

Part of it. But, more generally, Christ did not leave the Bible. He left a church, which absolutely had a ministerial priesthood and hierarchies. From this, the Bible was brought together, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. NOT the other way around. Period. End of story. Full stop. For all the accusations of Catholic idolatry, I often marvel at the ability to take holy scripture and make an idol of it.

There’s some gasoline for this here fire. I’ll check back later. Maybe.[/quote]Then let’s eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. There is no church and the gospel’s a lie because whatever that abomination in Rome is it has nothing, zero, zilch to do with anything in the bible unless we proceed a-priori with the assumption that it can mean literally anything the papacy says it finds there. In that case why bother with a bible at all.

Look I am not painting all individual catholics with the whole corruption of Rome, but that thing as an institution is evil and it just about always has been. It covers it’s long history of perversion and greed with tantalizing outward works of feigned Pharisaical godliness and charity. They think if they feed some poor people that God and the world will forget that that man posing as the “vicar of Christ” is still living in a monstrously opulent edifice built to the glory of man on the backs of the starving poor 500 years ago.

The ignorant starving poor who trusted the eternal souls of their dead loved ones to men who used them through the perceived authority of a so called church that only the devil himself would attempt to associate with Christ. People who had nothing except their faith and each other and that satanic house of baal took both away from them in the supposed name of Jesus and apostolic succession.

“Yeah, but we repented of all that” BULLSHIT, HE STILL LIVES THERE 500 YEARS LATER!!! Is that how it works in catholic “tradition”? Maybe I’ll rob a bank and build myself a house. When I stand before a human court maybe I’ll get a catholic judge and just tell him "well the holy see was built with money stolen from uneducated peasants living in abject squalor. The “pontiff is still there. Can I go to my new home now?” Repentance means fruit. Not, “welp… that was wrong. Now lemme get back to picking out my fatima themed curtains”.

You’re a very decent man Sloth and I’ve made no secret about my exceptionally high regard for you. How. HOW can you possibly believe that the Christ of the gospels would commission for Himself the building of a sprawling palace of the flesh like the vatican in the first place even if it wasn’t erected by mercilessly crushing the trusting untutored laity under foot? Are you gonna actually tell me that the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Peter, Paul, James and John is smiling on that colossal monument to every single thing he everywhere in the bible screams that he hates? If it weren’t for Luther being used at Wittenberg God only knows whether that crap would still be going on.

I have graciously stayed completely away from all the immorality in the priesthood. For centuries. That’s another whole topic.

I have to believe there will be catholics in heaven, but once again only because of the astonishing mercy of a loving God.

Tiribulus · August 14, 2010, 8:14pm

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I guess my sacrasm on the YOUR BOOK went over your head. The book you hold as the Holy Bible came from Catholic Church, formed by Catholic Councils, written by Catholic Apostles that were our Bishops and Popes. You’re holding in your hands a Catholic Book.

I am not perfect, I faulter. What’s your point, I suppose you are perfect.

You’re amazing Tirib, for someone that only needs the Bible you sure don’t know it as well as one would think. Faith and works are clearly outlined as things you are ordered to do. The Catholic Church does not teach that their is assumption of salvation with faith and works, either. I know it is a hard concept to grasp that you’d be required to do something that wouldn’t assure your salvation, but that’s it. No one can do anything for their salvation, only Jesus can. It all matters on what the circumstances are when you die, and how Jesus judges your soul.

I do sin, a lot. I was not religious for a long time, I have bad habits. I smoke, I drink, I fight. I cuss, I swear and spit. I am braggart and I hurt the one’s I love. I don’t hear the voice of God, and never have. I pray into darkness, even when I was ‘born again.’ The only thing that holds me to God is reasoning that He is there. He hasn’t blessed me with the gift of hearing or feeling his presence. Unlike most protestants, that doesn’t matter in the Catholic Church, as we come to God through reason and faith.

I’m a terrible cuss, and stubborn as a dead rock, but since I’ve joined the Church, I know that I am doing His deeds, even it is with a grunt and a snarl. I see no good or bad when it comes to people, because when we look to Our Lord, we are all bad. Only have from Protestant Church’s have I seen the segregation between Christians and heathens.

I would rather be perfect and see myself below that of the worst man on earth, than be faulty and think I am the best. I think the real delusion is those on the Protestant Churches, as they delude themselves that they are the reformers, the real reformers were in the Council of Trent. Protestants just protested and revolted against His Church, and now they revolt and protest against their own church’s. Your houses are divided, and no house divided against itself can stand.

People think they have split the Church, well I tell you it is more like cutting off a foot than splitting into two churches. The foot cannot grow into a human, and the body is now just crippled.[/quote]We’re talkin past each other. Of course I know what James says about faith and works, but public works of righteousness is not primarily what that means. Fighting the war with your own sin so you can more effectively represent Him to the world is what pleases God most. Seeking His face longing to be more like Him, putting off the old man of the flesh and spiritually feeding the new creature in Christ. That’s where the power is.

Power to resist the allures of the world, temptations of the flesh and the deceptions of Satan. Public works of charity are biblical and performed in the right attitude they are in fact a godly witness, but they are no substitute for personal holiness without which no one can see God. Everybody sins a lot, including me, but were supposed to don the full armor of God and fight man. Not surrender and parade our carnality before a world we’re supposed to be an example to. If you think I’m sitting here with my nose in the air it’s not even possible for you to be more wrong.

I’ve got something to do for an hour or 2.

Sloth · August 14, 2010, 9:51pm

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

There is no church and the gospel’s a lie because whatever that abomination in Rome is it has nothing, zero, zilch to do with anything in the bible unless we proceed a-priori with the assumption that it can mean literally anything the papacy says it finds there. In that case why bother with a bible at all.[/quote]

And obviously the protestant has headed this error off at the pass. Say, which denomination would you recommend? What non-biblical author should I read to convince myself that Genesis isn’t literally saying that there is a dome above our heads? Just curious!

Sloth · August 14, 2010, 9:56pm