[quote]Cortes wrote:
If one did sin, Heaven would no longer be called so. However, one would not. So, it is a bit of a paradox, sure, but, state it this way: Humans who go to Heaven have free will. Hence, they can sin. However, because of their transformed state, they WILL NOT sin. Therefore, Heaven is without sin (literally, there is no sin in Heaven).
[/quote]
If this is true, why wouldnt God just skip the first state, have people be born into the “transformed” state, and not put in them the original state which leads to sin?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< If this is true, why wouldnt God just skip the first state, have people be born into the “transformed” state, and not put in them the original state which leads to sin?[/quote]See the passage above I quoted from the 9th of Romans.
I love turning onto Benny Hinn for shits and giggles. It is hilarious to watch the people fall over though. I saw a guy in real life do this, but there was no one behind him to catch him. I did not know if the guy was knocked out when his head hit the floor, or dead.
To be serious Benny Hinn makes me want to be sick. Benny Hinn is nothing more than an entertainer taking the hard earned money away from the people in the name of God. The man takes a salary of more than $1,000,000 a year. This is not what God wants. He does not want his people to be poor either, but he wants to supply our needs, at the moment that we need it. God has taken care of me every day of my life.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…just for shits and giggles… >>>[/quote]And that’s all it’s worth… minus the giggles. For the record, if it looks, sounds and smells like hack charlatanism to you, it most likely does to me too. Once again 1 Corinthians 5:9-13,
[quote]" 9-I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10-I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11-But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindlerâ??not even to eat with such a one. 12-For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13-But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."[/quote]It’s the people claiming to be members of the church Paul is telling us to judge (so much for “thou shalt not judge”). The modern, especially American Church is on a crusade to force the unbelieving world through secular power to allegedly behave like Christians when so much of the visible church herself is a horrific God dishonoring witness to His holy gospel.
Those taking the name of Christ on their lips engaging in flagrant public displays of the same carnality that enslaves the world. Sex, money and power. It really is no wonder so few take Jesus seriously anymore. We’ve handed them every reason to believe that they’re holier than us already. We look, act and talk just like they do and sometimes worse. That’s Paul’s point. The world will be… well the world. Beyond telling them to repent and believe the gospel Christians are not called to demand that sinners act like saints, but we are commanded to bring the sword of God’s word down on those boldly defaming Christ’s name through doctrine, practice or both.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
<<< The man takes a salary of more than $1,000,000 a year. This is not what God wants. He does not want his people to be poor either, but he wants to supply our needs, at the moment that we need it. God has taken care of me every day of my life.[/quote]Very very good D. Too few Christians understand this. Lord give me enough that I’m not tempted to steal and not so much that I forget I need you.
What is really funny is the early church thought that type of stuff was bs too.
They were against ecstatic prophecy and even had a early heresy called
Montanism. Although I doubt it was anywhere near the level that some of the
televangelists take it to.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
<<< The man takes a salary of more than $1,000,000 a year. This is not what God wants. He does not want his people to be poor either, but he wants to supply our needs, at the moment that we need it. God has taken care of me every day of my life.[/quote]Very very good D. Too few Christians understand this. Lord give me enough that I’m not tempted to steal and not so much that I forget I need you.
[/quote]
I have to fight the prosperity doctrine every chance I get. I am not poor by any stretch of the imagination, but I would not be considered rich either. Money is a huge issue for me. I can get very greedy easily. I learned a long time ago that titheing was not because God needed the money. Titheing was for me. It reminds me that the money and everything I have is 100% God’s and not mine. His gift to me is that I can keep 90% of the money to do as I please, and all he asks for is 10%. Everytime I tithe the 90% seems to go farther, than if I just use the 100%. I know you all are saying you are crazy, but it works out that way. God is faithful and takes care of me and my family.
Agreed. That whole name it n claim it prosperity debacle was once my absolute specialty. Although the practical aspects like prosperity and perpetual health are not the worst issues with that crap. It’s the gnostic, dualistic “theology” behind it that’s what makes it so dangerous.
Their hair raising versions of the godhead, creation, the incarnation, regeneration and even faith, which they believe is a sort of spiritual play dough are every bit as heretical as any cult around. Kenneth Hagan started the modern manifestation of this by further expanding ideas he lifted from EW Kenyon. Nevermind, another story.
I honestly don’t care about cars and clothes and status symbol type stuff like that if that’s what you mean about greed. Though I could spend a childish fortune on computer parts or guns. Thank God for my wife because I’m not that responsible with money though I’m much better than I used to be. My struggle with money is hording, especially with food.
There’s a fine line between frugally stocking up and fearfully hording. I find myself up against that line sometimes. We are in rough shape and I’ll catch myself spending too much on a sale item as if there’s never going to be another opportunity to get more. That’s not child like faith. Children don’t wonder whether their father’s will provide. He always does, though His idea of enough may be radically different from ours.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Agreed. That whole name it n claim it prosperity debacle was once my absolute specialty. Although the practical aspects like prosperity and perpetual health are not the worst issues with that crap. It’s the gnostic, dualistic “theology” behind it that’s what makes it so dangerous. Their hair raising versions of the godhead, creation, the incarnation, regeneration and even faith, which they believe is a sort of spiritual play dough are every bit as heretical as any cult around. Kenneth Hagan started the modern manifestation of this by further expanding ideas he lifted from EW Kenyon. Nevermind, another story.
I honestly don’t care about cars and clothes and status symbol type stuff like that if that’s what you mean about greed. Though I could spend a childish fortune on computer parts or guns. Thank God for my wife because I’m not that responsible with money though I’m much better than I used to be. My struggle with money is hording, especially with food. There’s a fine line between frugally stocking up and fearfully hording. I find myself up against that line sometimes. We are in rough shape and I’ll catch myself spending too much on a sale item as if there’s never going to be another opportunity to get more. That’s not child like faith. Children don’t wonder whether their father’s will provide. He always does, though His idea of enough may be radically different from ours.[/quote]
I love good values and sales. I have an issue with hording money though. I save 15%-25% of every paycheck. My wife wants to spend more money to have more fun, but my idea of saving is so that We can stop working. I want to do Charity work, and not work for the Man my entire life. I want to have the ability so that if God tells me to move I can.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
<<< I love good values and sales. I have an issue with hording money though. I save 15%-25% of every paycheck. My wife wants to spend more money to have more fun, but my idea of saving is so that We can stop working. I want to do Charity work, and not work for the Man my entire life. I want to have the ability so that if God tells me to move I can.[/quote]I don’t know if I’d call that hording. You’re not being a miser out of insecurity you’re saving so you can be used for godly work. As long as it’s Spirit led that’s good.
What’s also good for her sake is that your wife married you and not me =] We’d probably be broke between the 2 of us “having fun” together even if I did make good money.
…but you [plural] do understand how this [widespread] [american] phenomenon shapes and influences people’s perception of christianity? People like Hinn are quacks, snake oil merchants, who will suck your last penny from your wallet if you allow it. And there are so many people who fall for it! Why is that, do you think?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
If one did sin, Heaven would no longer be called so. However, one would not. So, it is a bit of a paradox, sure, but, state it this way: Humans who go to Heaven have free will. Hence, they can sin. However, because of their transformed state, they WILL NOT sin. Therefore, Heaven is without sin (literally, there is no sin in Heaven).
[/quote]
If this is true, why wouldnt God just skip the first state, have people be born into the “transformed” state, and not put in them the original state which leads to sin?[/quote]
Did you miss the part just below where you quoted to where I talk about the Real Doll?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…but you [plural] do understand how this [widespread] [american] phenomenon shapes and influences people’s perception of christianity? People like Hinn are quacks, snake oil merchants, who will suck your last penny from your wallet if you allow it. And there are so many people who fall for it! Why is that, do you think? [/quote]This time you are absolutely correct. That is why my last post about this. Believers are commanded to call out and condemn false doctrine or practice perpetrated by people claiming to speak for Christ. It’s an abomination, a shame and incurs the hot wrath of God, but it is nothing new. All manner of damnable heresies have been with us since the very beginning. Paul’s letters were written largely for the purpose of straightening out somebody’s bad teaching or corrupt morals.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…but you [plural] do understand how this [widespread] [american] phenomenon shapes and influences people’s perception of christianity? People like Hinn are quacks, snake oil merchants, who will suck your last penny from your wallet if you allow it. And there are so many people who fall for it! Why is that, do you think? [/quote]
Very much so. Sadly the American church is full of apathetic unthinking people who do very little outside of warm a seat once a week. They are looking for something of substance and taking the very first thing that has an appearance of that. It is a sad state of affairs,
but the American church as a whole is in that position. People can go to church their whole life and never learn the principles of how to study the Bible, but they do learn that it is inerrent. So if it says it then it must be true. Which makes them easy pray to someone twisting the text like Benny does. They never learn to actually try and understand the message of its original intent, as well as principles of interpretation, and application. In my opinion the Church has failed when it comes to this, and this is the reaping of what we have sown.
That class that I told you about earlier will start with a six week session on studying the Bible. I wish a class like that would have been available to me when I was a teenager. Instead I had to figure it out on my own. While it has been rewarding in itself, it would have been nice to have had someone steering me in the right direction. Instead my youth at church was full or pep rally’s trying to get you excited for Jesus. That is great in a way, but they usually lack any real substance.
So you are not the only one who is disgruntled by the images portrayed by his ilk.
There are well known people though that speak out openly about those guys
and are doing great work to expose them.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…but you [plural] do understand how this [widespread] [american] phenomenon shapes and influences people’s perception of christianity? People like Hinn are quacks, snake oil merchants, who will suck your last penny from your wallet if you allow it. And there are so many people who fall for it! Why is that, do you think? [/quote]
I agree with you completely, and people are taken advantage of daily, and I hate it. Why do you think I am on here letting you know the Benny Hinn is an idiot and does not understand the Bible. People are relying on other people to tell them about God. They do not do their own study. You study the Bible especially the Book of Job, and you see that just because you are poor or rich that God has favor or curses upon you. The Bible is clear to watch out for people that tell you things that tickle the ear. It sounds really good, and is really close to what the Bible says. What is the best lie to tell? One that is 95% truth. The Bible states that what you give to God will be given back to you ten fold. Does that mean that if you give $1,000 you will get a check in the mail for $10,000? No that is not what it means. Guys like Benny Hinn twist this verse to try and get money out of people. Can God use this evil to do good yes. People come to Christ all the time through Benny Hinn. Do I think Benny Hinn is the devil? I do not know because I do not know the man. He beleives what he does for a reason. I just question the motive.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
<<< The man takes a salary of more than $1,000,000 a year. This is not what God wants. He does not want his people to be poor either, but he wants to supply our needs, at the moment that we need it. God has taken care of me every day of my life.[/quote]Very very good D. Too few Christians understand this. Lord give me enough that I’m not tempted to steal and not so much that I forget I need you.
[/quote]
I have to fight the prosperity doctrine every chance I get. I am not poor by any stretch of the imagination, but I would not be considered rich either. Money is a huge issue for me. I can get very greedy easily. I learned a long time ago that titheing was not because God needed the money. Titheing was for me. It reminds me that the money and everything I have is 100% God’s and not mine. His gift to me is that I can keep 90% of the money to do as I please, and all he asks for is 10%. Everytime I tithe the 90% seems to go farther, than if I just use the 100%. I know you all are saying you are crazy, but it works out that way. God is faithful and takes care of me and my family. [/quote]
I would love to have the problem of too much money, since I seem to be stuck on the other side of that equation most of the time. I can always get rid of it if it becomes a problems. I will happily praise the Lord cruising down the road in a Lamborghini LP 670 Super Veloce or Ferrari 599 GTO… After all, folks who make Lamborghini’s and Ferrari’s gotta eat too and that won’t happen if rich people don’t buy them.
I see consumerism as a good thing kept in perspective. If people don’t purchase goods, people don’t eat.
