I’m not either. It’s just something that’s been requested aside from healthcare , housing and food
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Universal healthcare, no for-profit prisons, free education.
Work less, paid more.
I do give the younger generation credit for seriously questioning work life balance because I believe we have it wrong in this country. I know men who retired and died within a year. But, there are costs to this. You don’t get to live a carefree life where you can travel limitlessly and have a nice home and Tesla while working 20 hours a week. Outcomes will, and should, be related to effort and talent. But when everyone gets an A or a trophy, your expectations get skewed.
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I would agree with this but remember, someone has to pay for it.
I believe all that’s being asked for is wages that keep up with inflation and housing. It’s a giant problem and why many millenials still can’t buy houses. I got lucky and bought my house in 2017, but even those a few years younger then me in good STEM careers cannot afford housing now.
Yes, but many other places have shown better health outcomes and work/life balance with 35-36 hour work weeks with little to no drop in actual productivity.
For sure
I think only idealogues actually think this is possible (or “alpha” dudes with podcasts)
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It literally does.
I think the vast majority of people understand “levels” of reaction of sorts.
Would you say that hitting or violence in general is absolutely never justified over words?
As a separate question, if a kid was spanked because he kept trying to play with an electric socket while not understanding ramifications, is any potential violent reaction for the rest of his life directly attributed to the spanking he received to avert death via behavior modification as a young child?
Do you see any wiggle room for a child to experience corporal punishment (not abuse mislabeled as corporal punishment) and turn out fine? Actually “understanding when they got older” so to speak?
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But do you think spanking caused this? Or is it a natural human reaction?
Do kids who were not corporally punished universally not wind up in fights over self-pride challenges?
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I think we loosely agree that corporal punishment as an intentional, and strategically utilized practice does have its useful place. Not to be confused with the outright assaults and abuse that seem to be getting tied in when they are really a separate issue altogether.
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I think its a good bit of both, but there is an awful lot of reinforcement to the idea that “you get your ass beat for saying that” from spanking.
Anecdotally, I’d say not nearly as much.
A large part of how we respond is modeled by the same sex parent. Individual choice always wins of course, but modeling gives a pretty good indication of “whats going to happen if…”.
Leads to different levels of the exact same outcomes in terms of external behavior
No. And screw those dumb studies that claim otherwise.
Like usual, the genetic component is conveniently left out. Dumber guys hit their kids, and those kids will largely be dummies as well and lash out.
For the record, while I never, ever hit my kids (so far ;), a form of corporal punishment must be kept in reserve, so to speak. They must know that daddy would absolutely destroy them if they did something unspeakable, like torturing a puppy. I don’t think I’d ever will have to resort to such measures (having raised no psychos), but the potential to mete out physical justice must be tangible. Just like I don’t plan to punish a home invader, nontheless the family should trust in me bringing the wrath of Gods to such scoundrels.
Now we alI can talk cheap shit from the armchair, as we’ve grown up in relative peace and modest wealth. Beating kids, however, was the norm throughout christian history for the last thousand years. The data gets much fuzzier if you go back further although at some point, like 10’000 years ago, Europeans probably didn’t beat their kids.
In a nutshell, everyone’s family has had hardcore child abusers if you go back a century, or two at the most.
All this nonsense about the toxicity of laying a hand on your kid, ie spanking stems from the neoliberal uber-state. They want you feeble, among other nasty things. While I agree that hitting your kid isn’t great in itself, they are largely correct that on some unconscious pathways, it connects to violent agency. People who beat their kids may be be stupider, but they are also probably rougher and tougher in every other way. And that’s somewhat concerning to the elite and their bootlickers.
The same politicians and journalists who cowered in fear when a couple boomers took a silly stroll through the capitol can’t abide people who might redirect their spontaneous anger towards, dunno, handing out Israel another 100 million to kill more babies and granting them free access to the strategic oil reserve.
It’s a subconscious thing. For the same reason that liberals, who, on average, are weaker and less aggressive, hate gun culture because they feel it makes them even weaker.
I’d be curious to see quantified data here. I remember one the hottest heads in the neighborhood growing up had a single mom that he ran all over. This is a one off example of course, but I think there are far more and complex reasons than parental corporal punishment (not to be confused with examples of straight up assault and abuse peppering in) for outbursts, fights and violence in general.
Doesn’t make it okay to do.
The rest of your post borders on BS alpha male nonsense.
Of course there are other reasons, I don’t think anyone is denying that fact. Some people are simply sociopaths. Doesn’t make the aforementioned correlation untrue.
Yeah, thats unmanaged behavior at its finest. If you never tell a kid no, or stop them from acting on impulse, or teach them boundaries they’ll just be out of control little nit-wits. Then, the parent gets completely fed up and lashes out at the kid in anger, creating an obstinate, impulsive boundary breaker with a nasty explosive temper.
I’ve never seen an adult like that who didn’t have chronic level tendencies toward doing ridiculously stupid shit, and was truly puzzled to find that the world doesn’t appreciate their shit.
Me too. There are all kinds of learning cues that go with violence, but I’m of the opinion that it has to be normalized somehow (within an individual or group), to come out as an action.
Like gangs beating people in. Blood in, blood out type stuff. If a kid wants to be part of the local group but never experienced that type of familial violence at home, Bam! Bam! You have now! Welcome to the family!
Even in my neighborhood, we weren’t a “gang” per se, but did have an initiation. Everybody needed to know that if you’re one of us, you need to be able stand up for yourself and the group. Being at the center of a slugfest was a rite of passage.
I legitimately believe this is just natural behavior that we are currently, as a sweeping statement, attempting to repress and label as “bad” while searching for and likely more often than not creating the “why” behind it.
I didn’t have gangs around growing up or even groups remotely resembling them, but I do remember backyard boxing matches, after school fights, sports team hazing et cetera.
Normally the fights were in response to an anger triggering event but I think it’s a hard sell to convince me Johnny beat up Mikey not because Mikey kissed Johnny’s girlfriend but because Johnny was spanked for repeatedly turning the knobs on a gas stove even after being reprimanded and having the potential consequences explained to him.
Backyard boxing was legitimately boys being boys. Who is toughest, who can challenge who. This is age old shit that has existed in one form or another in every culture across the world, ever.
Team hazing would be the closest thing to an initiation I experienced but in the end it was truly about bonding, no matter what a she/he/they/xe “it’s all relative and nothing matters….unless a white male says it and then it’s completely damaging” psychiatrist thinks. Anything coming from someone actively attempting to change a paradigm due to personal subjective opinion can be disregarded imo.
Behavior modification is exactly that, whether it’s manipulated via words or physicality. Both can be exaggerated in to abuse causing lasting damage and both can be useful tools to learn and grow from if applied correctly.
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Since when did premises not matter?
When the outcome is known (detrimental effects on human psychology by all available indications) and the initial conditions (i.e. human biology hasn’t changed much in the last millennium) are known. You have the initial conditions, the function (corporal punishment), and the outcome - nothing is left to find.
Don’t you dare bring logic into this conversation.
Yeah, I’m largely in agreement there.
My son was in a tussle in first grade. One kid though he was out, he though he was safe. They exchanged words until another kid ran up and my son punched him in the face.
According to him, he felt teamed up on. Me and the principal discussed it, and it was agreed upon that it was just playground stuff, and they all got held from recess the next day.
To date (4 years later), they’re all buddies now and have formed their own club, with those three as the founding members.
Yeah, its when stuff goes out of bounds that gets bad results. Like if you see a kid or adult that beats somebody into submission and beyond- you know that came from somewhere bad.
Like, with my son, dad voice works 99.9% of the time. The other .1% escalates to deprivation of privileges.
Key to this is consistency and unity. If either I or Mom says something, its just as good as if the other said it.
Another often misunderstood concept is the installation of discipline. He understands and wants to do good because he knows its worth it, not out of fear of reprisal or getting smacked. Thats not discipline, its avoidance.
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