Men Going Their Own Way

Dr_Pangloss · August 19, 2014, 5:00pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
Could they also co-sign a legal document that would guarantee both parties equal custodial rights of any child born during the marriage and only find the father culpable for the same financial investment in the upbringing of the baby as the mother pays?
[/quote]

Child support is always, always reviewable. You can make alimony non-modifiable by removing it from the jurisdiction of the courts, you can’t do the same for child support.*

This isn’t exactly what you were asking, but I would imagine the rules are the same.

Pearsy92 · August 19, 2014, 5:06pm

I would take my wife on a cruise through the Bahamas and buy her a brand new elegant rock coat before I took my chances in a court room.

I wonder if there have been any cases of guys giving all their money away and claiming bankruptcy to spite their wife rather than hand half over to her.

Dr_Pangloss · August 19, 2014, 5:15pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
I would take my wife on a cruise through the Bahamas and buy her a brand new elegant rock coat before I took my chances in a court room.

I wonder if there have been any cases of guys giving all their money away and claiming bankruptcy to spite their wife rather than hand half over to her. [/quote]

Of course. It’s called wasting or dissipation of assets. The judge can find you liable for your partners share or take it out of your share of whatever assets are left. Dissipation usually takes the form of gifts to friends/family, gifts to new girlfriend, gambling losses, intentional foreclosure, etc.

For example, you and your wife have an estate worth $300K, half in cash and half in home equity. You withdraw all the cash and lose it/gamble it away/give it to your best friend. The judge could very well say that that was your half and your wife gets the equity in the house.

If you quit your job, that could be considered dissipation of assets as well.

IamMarqaos · August 20, 2014, 2:30am

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
I would take my wife on a cruise through the Bahamas and buy her a brand new elegant rock coat before I took my chances in a court room.

I wonder if there have been any cases of guys giving all their money away and claiming bankruptcy to spite their wife rather than hand half over to her. [/quote]

Of course. It’s called wasting or dissipation of assets. The judge can find you liable for your partners share or take it out of your share of whatever assets are left. Dissipation usually takes the form of gifts to friends/family, gifts to new girlfriend, gambling losses, intentional foreclosure, etc.

For example, you and your wife have an estate worth $300K, half in cash and half in home equity. You withdraw all the cash and lose it/gamble it away/give it to your best friend. The judge could very well say that that was your half and your wife gets the equity in the house.

If you quit your job, that could be considered dissipation of assets as well.[/quote]

Correct. She’d get the home equity and the judge might very well increase the amount of alimony because you squandered her part of the liquid assets.

TheJonty · August 20, 2014, 6:52am

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Damn you guys are lucky.

In British Columbia it’s 2 years before common law kicks in. I have a friend who was telling me about this couple he knew who were living together during university and by graduation they were deemed a common law couple.[/quote]

I thought that there would be no way that this is true.

But it is.

What a fucking nightmare.

http://www.davis.ca/en/publication/bc-new-family-law-act-grants-rights-to-cohabiting-couples/
[/quote]
It sure can be a nightmare.

http://www.thegauntlet.ca/story/student-loan-nightmare

Pearsy92 · August 20, 2014, 11:10am

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
I would take my wife on a cruise through the Bahamas and buy her a brand new elegant rock coat before I took my chances in a court room.

I wonder if there have been any cases of guys giving all their money away and claiming bankruptcy to spite their wife rather than hand half over to her. [/quote]

Of course. It’s called wasting or dissipation of assets. The judge can find you liable for your partners share or take it out of your share of whatever assets are left. Dissipation usually takes the form of gifts to friends/family, gifts to new girlfriend, gambling losses, intentional foreclosure, etc.

For example, you and your wife have an estate worth $300K, half in cash and half in home equity. You withdraw all the cash and lose it/gamble it away/give it to your best friend. The judge could very well say that that was your half and your wife gets the equity in the house.

If you quit your job, that could be considered dissipation of assets as well.[/quote]

Correct. She’d get the home equity and the judge might very well increase the amount of alimony because you squandered her part of the liquid assets. [/quote]

What if you sold the house or donated it to charity or went around the house destroying everything and ripping up the plumbing and making it un-renovationable?

I am talking serious I don’t care if i go homeless and jobless for awhile as long as this gold digger gets nothing. Quit your job, have your cars crushed, give away the house or destroy it, destroy or give away all valuable possessions.

Would that end up with you going to prison?

If I am someone with a great education and who has been a successful business owner I would honestly rather do that than give some leech anything. I mean you can always get it back if you ave the education and experience being a successful business man.

Dr_Pangloss · August 20, 2014, 1:44pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
What if you sold the house or donated it to charity or went around the house destroying everything and ripping up the plumbing and making it un-renovationable?

I am talking serious I don’t care if i go homeless and jobless for awhile as long as this gold digger gets nothing. Quit your job, have your cars crushed, give away the house or destroy it, destroy or give away all valuable possessions.

Would that end up with you going to prison?

If I am someone with a great education and who has been a successful business owner I would honestly rather do that than give some leech anything. I mean you can always get it back if you ave the education and experience being a successful business man.

[/quote]

Now you’re thinking like a woman*.

A divorce is a BUSINESS decision - a breach of contract - and it should be treated like one. Imo, this is where a great divorce attorney can really distinguish himself. Not by fucking over your spouse, but by sitting you down and making you realize that fighting over who gets the damn china makes no financial sense when you’re each paying a lawyer $400 an hour.

If you go into business with a partner and after some amount of time decide to close shop, do you torch your inventory and burn whatever money is in the bank? No. You split it up, lick your wounds, learn from your experience, and move on. A divorce is no different.

Stop thinking like a woman.

Pearsy92 · August 20, 2014, 1:24pm

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
What if you sold the house or donated it to charity or went around the house destroying everything and ripping up the plumbing and making it un-renovationable?

I am talking serious I don’t care if i go homeless and jobless for awhile as long as this gold digger gets nothing. Quit your job, have your cars crushed, give away the house or destroy it, destroy or give away all valuable possessions.

Would that end up with you going to prison?

If I am someone with a great education and who has been a successful business owner I would honestly rather do that than give some leech anything. I mean you can always get it back if you ave the education and experience being a successful business man.

[/quote]

Now you’re thinking like a woman.

A divorce is a BUSINESS decision - a breach of contract - and it should be treated like one. Imo, this is where a great divorce attorney can really distinguish himself. Not by fucking over your spouse, but by sitting you down and making you realize that fighting over who gets the damn china makes no financial sense when you’re each paying a lawyer $400 an hour.

If you go into business with a partner and after some amount of time decide to close shop, do you torch your inventory and burn whatever money is in the bank? No. You split it up, lick your wounds, learn from your experience, and move on. A divorce is no different.

Stop thinking like a woman.
[/quote]

Relationships are not a business deal, in a business partnership you are exactly that, partners. if I spent 20 years building a multi million dollar company and my wife was a house wife or worked a part time job just because she wanted to work, the notion I should just give her half of everything I built and " lick my wounds" is madness.

The idea of giving away all my assets out of principle rather than being extorted by someone for half is acting like a woman who is demanding half my assets for merely being in a mutually consenting relationship is the equivalent of saying just give in and accept the moral validity of a law that entitles someone to take half of your stuff for the mere fact they have a vagina.

This goes against every single notion of equality and freedom, both economic, morally, politically and Legislatively.

It really isn’t even about the money, it is the pure entitlement that some actually thinks begin a wife entitles them to millions of pounds because their husband was a famous sports player. How many 3 pointers did the wife hit? Why should she be compensated, she lived the high life and yet she is now deemed entitled to more and for continued upkeep on top of the wealth she will receive.

Telling people to just get over a loss of civil rights, or a robbery or anything that affects their freedom, their lively hood or their earned wealth is just not something i think is very supportable.

Thinking like a woman would be to demand alimony from the woman in the form of pussy payments, to keep their standard of living the same as before they divorced.

Pearsy92 · August 20, 2014, 1:30pm

Wait were you joking or serious?

I need one of those Fry meme thingys!

Damn now you have edited in that it was indeed a joke. Puts soap box away.

Dr_Pangloss · August 20, 2014, 1:44pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Relationships are not a business deal, in a business partnership you are exactly that, partners. if I spent 20 years building a multi million dollar company and my wife was a house wife or worked a part time job just because she wanted to work, the notion I should just give her half of everything I built and " lick my wounds" is madness.

The idea of giving away all my assets out of principle rather than being extorted by someone for half is acting like a woman who is demanding half my assets for merely being in a mutually consenting relationship is the equivalent of saying just give in and accept the moral validity of a law that entitles someone to take half of your stuff for the mere fact they have a vagina.

This goes against every single notion of equality and freedom, both economic, morally, politically and Legislatively.

It really isn’t even about the money, it is the pure entitlement that some actually thinks begin a wife entitles them to millions of pounds because their husband was a famous sports player. How many 3 pointers did the wife hit? Why should she be compensated, she lived the high life and yet she is now deemed entitled to more and for continued upkeep on top of the wealth she will receive.

Telling people to just get over a loss of civil rights, or a robbery or anything that affects their freedom, their lively hood or their earned wealth is just not something i think is very supportable.

Thinking like a woman would be to demand alimony from the woman in the form of pussy payments, to keep their standard of living the same as before they divorced.[/quote]

You’re such a romantic. It’s adorable.

While relationships may not be a business deal, state-sanctioned marriage is. That’s what you get by going down to City Hall and applying for a marriage license. You’ve agreed to let the State insert itself into an eventual break-up in exchange for tax breaks, social recognition of the union, etc.

And here’s the thing: you know this going in! You know that if the marriage doesn’t last, that your (business) partner has a legitimate claim on half of the assets gained during marriage. They’re not yours. The moment your earn that income, it belongs to both of you.

Whether or not your soon-to-be ex feels entitled to half is immaterial. As are your feelings about it. You entered into a contract recognized by the State knowing full well that if the partnership ends, your partner would have a legitimate claim to some large percentage of the assets.

Like I said, it’s a business decision.

Dr_Pangloss · August 20, 2014, 1:49pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
Wait were you joking or serious?

I need one of those Fry meme thingys!

Damn now you have edited in that it was indeed a joke. Puts soap box away.[/quote]

I put it in there (and removed it), but I’m not joking.

That’s why some (many?) of the older guys on this site are so cool to the idea of marriage.

Marriage can be great, and is great for lots of people. But don’t kid yourself for one second that it’s not also a business decision. And a divorce, especially, should be looked at as a dissolution of the partnership and (ideally) both parties would behave accordingly.

countingbeans · August 20, 2014, 3:26pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
if I spent 20 years building a multi million dollar company and my wife was a house wife or worked a part time job just because she wanted to work, the notion I should just give her half of everything I built and " lick my wounds" is madness.

[/quote]

I stopped here, and will read on after this. But you are out of your god damn mind here. It is beyond fucking ludicrous to envision the imaginary tale that your stay at home spouse wasn’t invested in your career. She certainly was.

Unless we are talking about a trophy wife that did nothing but sit by the pool and fuck the cabana boy all day, this is insane. If she is taking care of your home (cooking, cleaning, kids, shopping, cloths, etc) she is investing in your career, period.

Pearsy92 · August 20, 2014, 4:50pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
if I spent 20 years building a multi million dollar company and my wife was a house wife or worked a part time job just because she wanted to work, the notion I should just give her half of everything I built and " lick my wounds" is madness.

[/quote]

I stopped here, and will read on after this. But you are out of your god damn mind here. It is beyond fucking ludicrous to envision the imaginary tale that your stay at home spouse wasn’t invested in your career. She certainly was.

Unless we are talking about a trophy wife that did nothing but sit by the pool and fuck the cabana boy all day, this is insane. If she is taking care of your home (cooking, cleaning, kids, shopping, cloths, etc) she is investing in your career, period. [/quote]

They chose to be, this would be a voluntary agreement, you should not be entitled to half because you were a good housewife or a good stay at home husband for a successful sports player or movie star.

Kobe Bryant’s wife got around half his fortune estimated at 150 million. Her 75 million share included 3 mansions, cars, money and other assets.

I don’t care how much she thinks she did her value as a wife of 10 years was not 75 million. Her value as a wife should be getting some rent money for her to stay in an apartment until she can get herself a job to support her. A 29 year old woman who is able bodied should be working for a living.

Heather Mills got over 50 million from a Beatle!, He had already made his fortune when he met her and they had maids and cooks and everything was taken care of on Sir Pauls bank roll so they both could live a life of luxury. Again it is insane. To quote Bill Burr

“why is everyone moaning about Arnold cheating, we have an epidemic of money grubbing whores over here!”

angry_chicken · August 20, 2014, 4:58pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
if I spent 20 years building a multi million dollar company and my wife was a house wife or worked a part time job just because she wanted to work, the notion I should just give her half of everything I built and " lick my wounds" is madness.

[/quote]

I stopped here, and will read on after this. But you are out of your god damn mind here. It is beyond fucking ludicrous to envision the imaginary tale that your stay at home spouse wasn’t invested in your career. She certainly was.

Unless we are talking about a trophy wife that did nothing but sit by the pool and fuck the cabana boy all day, this is insane. If she is taking care of your home (cooking, cleaning, kids, shopping, cloths, etc) she is investing in your career, period. [/quote]

Gotta disagree, Beans… Gotta disagree. ANY maid could have done the same thing - housewives don’t contribute anything unique. They aren’t there at work with you making tough decisions or sweating and bleeding along side of you.

A few meals a week, folding some clothes and lying on your back for 20 minutes twice a month IS NOT HALF of an income! That’s some feminist BULLSHIT cool-aide you’ve been drinking, brother…

Pearsy92 · August 20, 2014, 5:02pm

By the way I understand you are not supporting the current state of divorce laws but just pointing out the obvious reality one must accept if taking the current legal ramifications of marriage and possibly divorce on. It just makes me sick to my stomach.

You just got to pray you married a woman because she was awesome, not a Russian 21 year old who was hot as hell.

In my extended family in general its been pretty great as far as divorce goes, amicable, both worked, split everything by who did what.

When my uncle divorced his wife He kept his car, all the stuff he himself bought and his wife stayed in the house with the kids until they sold it. They split the cash on it, it was a joint purchase and she bought a flat in the city and my uncle got a house a couple years later after a couple years renting.

All the women in my family are very blue collar and in general would never dream of acting like the women I hear of who take their men for millions.

They all worked full time jobs, got home and cleaned and cooked for kids. Somehow my mum found time to work and take care of the house and kids while my father worked. She did not feel she was a martyr for an 8 hour work day followed by looking after kids. I really don’t know where house wives get this victim complex from.

You cook and clean a house. It is not the hardest or most valuable of work, it is called being an adult and taking care of the property in which you reside.

IamMarqaos · August 20, 2014, 5:15pm

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
if I spent 20 years building a multi million dollar company and my wife was a house wife or worked a part time job just because she wanted to work, the notion I should just give her half of everything I built and " lick my wounds" is madness.

[/quote]

I stopped here, and will read on after this. But you are out of your god damn mind here. It is beyond fucking ludicrous to envision the imaginary tale that your stay at home spouse wasn’t invested in your career. She certainly was.

Unless we are talking about a trophy wife that did nothing but sit by the pool and fuck the cabana boy all day, this is insane. If she is taking care of your home (cooking, cleaning, kids, shopping, cloths, etc) she is investing in your career, period. [/quote]

They chose to be, this would be a voluntary agreement, you should not be entitled to half because you were a good housewife or a good stay at home husband for a successful sports player or movie star.

Kobe Bryant’s wife got around half his fortune estimated at 150 million. Her 75 million share included 3 mansions, cars, money and other assets.

I don’t care how much she thinks she did her value as a wife of 10 years was not 75 million. Her value as a wife should be getting some rent money for her to stay in an apartment until she can get herself a job to support her. A 29 year old woman who is able bodied should be working for a living.

Heather Mills got over 50 million from a Beatle!, He had already made his fortune when he met her and they had maids and cooks and everything was taken care of on Sir Pauls bank roll so they both could live a life of luxury. Again it is insane. To quote Bill Burr

“why is everyone moaning about Arnold cheating, we have an epidemic of money grubbing whores over here!”
[/quote]

I feel for you cause I’m going through a nasty divorce myself right now BUT I suggest you follow the advice of Pangloss and get yourself a good attorney or at least the best advice money can buy. Pissing and moaning about it, although totally understandable, is not going to make a difference. The law is the law. What you need to do is work within it and get yourself the best outcome possible. Manipulate it, bend it, do whatever, but work within it. Squandering your possessions to get one over on her is NOT the right way to go about it and if she has a good attorney he’ll bend you over and give it to you with a rusty tail pipe.

Now, not all women turn psycho during a divorce. You can always talk to your wife and settle out of court. You can hire a mediator etc. It doesn’t always have to end in World War III.

Pearsy92 · August 20, 2014, 5:19pm