McCain/Obama and Economy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]hedo wrote:
Obama knows next to nothing about the economy. I’m sure his economic mentor Franklin Raines, the former Chief Executive of Fannie Mae, will be able to advise him brilliantly.

Franklin always thought highly of Obama and donated lavishly to him in the short 146 days he was in the senate before he was summoned to save the world.

Franklin did a wonderful job for Fannie Mae don’t you think?[/quote]

[i][b][Obama’s] Free-market economic team

Key economic advisers include a few Washington veterans such as Michael Froman, a Citigroup executive and former chief of staff to then-Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the Cabinet member most closely identified with the Clinton administration’s pro-free trade, business-friendly policies.

There are also several scholars from prestigious universities whose approaches are anchored in dominant market-oriented economic thought. One is Austan Goolsbee, a 38-year-old star University of Chicago Business School professor and New York Times columnist with centrist Democratic views who has argued for eliminating tax returns for many Americans with simple finances.

Alan Blinder, former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, described Obama’s top economic advisers as “mainstream with a dash of creativity.”

“These are people who think new thoughts – within the mainstream, new without a capital N,” said Blinder, now a professor at Princeton University.[/i][/b]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/chi-obama_mon_nusep17,0,3844054.story

42

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
hedo wrote:
Obama knows next to nothing about the economy. I’m sure his economic mentor Franklin Raines, the former Chief Executive of Fannie Mae, will be able to advise him brilliantly.

Franklin always thought highly of Obama and donated lavishly to him in the short 146 days he was in the senate before he was summoned to save the world.

Franklin did a wonderful job for Fannie Mae don’t you think?

[i][b][Obama’s] Free-market economic team

Key economic advisers include a few Washington veterans such as Michael Froman, a Citigroup executive and former chief of staff to then-Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the Cabinet member most closely identified with the Clinton administration’s pro-free trade, business-friendly policies.

There are also several scholars from prestigious universities whose approaches are anchored in dominant market-oriented economic thought. One is Austan Goolsbee, a 38-year-old star University of Chicago Business School professor and New York Times columnist with centrist Democratic views who has argued for eliminating tax returns for many Americans with simple finances.

Alan Blinder, former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, described Obama’s top economic advisers as “mainstream with a dash of creativity.”

“These are people who think new thoughts – within the mainstream, new without a capital N,” said Blinder, now a professor at Princeton University.[/i][/b]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/chi-obama_mon_nusep17,0,3844054.story

[/quote]

Rubin was one of the architects of the subprime lending scheme. I think I have had about enough of his “creativity”.

Why isn’t there a congressional investigation into F&F? I mean - they couldn’t have investigations fast enough over Enron. Freddie goes from $80-something a share to a pink sheet stock, but no one in Washington thinks this should be investigated?

Kinda makes me wonder.

43

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
hedo wrote:
Obama knows next to nothing about the economy. I’m sure his economic mentor Franklin Raines, the former Chief Executive of Fannie Mae, will be able to advise him brilliantly.

Franklin always thought highly of Obama and donated lavishly to him in the short 146 days he was in the senate before he was summoned to save the world.

Franklin did a wonderful job for Fannie Mae don’t you think?

[i][b][Obama’s] Free-market economic team

Key economic advisers include a few Washington veterans such as Michael Froman, a Citigroup executive and former chief of staff to then-Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the Cabinet member most closely identified with the Clinton administration’s pro-free trade, business-friendly policies.

There are also several scholars from prestigious universities whose approaches are anchored in dominant market-oriented economic thought. One is Austan Goolsbee, a 38-year-old star University of Chicago Business School professor and New York Times columnist with centrist Democratic views who has argued for eliminating tax returns for many Americans with simple finances.

Alan Blinder, former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, described Obama’s top economic advisers as “mainstream with a dash of creativity.”

“These are people who think new thoughts – within the mainstream, new without a capital N,” said Blinder, now a professor at Princeton University.[/i][/b]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/chi-obama_mon_nusep17,0,3844054.story

[/quote]

Rubin good grief. You have to be kidding.

Goolsbee “Professor and NY Times Columnist”. Mainstream with a dash of creativity…are you serious.

Sheltered college professors running the economy…yeah that’s what we need. New with a capital N indeed.

44

Case in Point:

Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act

WASHINGTON �?? Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says that paying higher taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans.

Biden says he and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama want to “take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people.”

Under the Democrats’ economic plan, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less �?? the vast majority of American taxpayers �?? would receive a tax cut.

Biden told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Thursday that, in his words, “it’s time to be patriotic … time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.”

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080918/ap_on_el_pr/biden_taxes_1

Remember, my Leftist friends, a Government that Giveth, also Taketh away. Verbal confirmation of class warfare and income distribution alive and well in America.

45

[quote]beebuddy wrote:
lol, nobody uses that definition of inflation anymore! My previous post was 100% accurate. [/quote]

It doesn’t matter if it is no longer used it is the only one that is defined by logic. CPI means exactly jack shit. Tell me what prices are taken into account and how they can come to only one measure for inflation that makes any sense? Keep in mind I am a physicist and will point out to you bad math.

If you keep using the definitions of the institutions that have failed the people you will keep getting failure.

46

[i] Sen. Obama is relying on former Clinton administration heavyweights, while Sen. McCain is looking to veterans of the Reagan administration and both Bush presidencies. During Sen. Obama’s conference call, former Treasury bosses Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers, ex-Fed Chairman Paul Volcker and University of California at Berkeley economist Laura Tyson agreed: The message should be that the financial chaos stems from eight years of a Republican hands-off attitude toward financial regulation, a point of view they planned to pin on Sen. McCain.

Sen. McCain’s financial team includes John Thain, the chief executive of Merrill Lynch & Co., who just engineered the firm’s emergency sale to Bank of America. Another aide, Harvard economist Martin Feldstein, is a former adviser to President Reagan and a current member of AIG’s board of directors, while Peter Wallison served as general counsel in the Reagan Treasury and Michael Boskin was an economic adviser to President George H.W. Bush.

When asked about a possible conflict of interest between his advisers and the campaign, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said he saw no such problem. Mr. Feldstein has “no unique influence on John McCain’s policy and no unique influence on AIG’s policy.” As for Mr. Thain, Mr. Bounds said, “He took over a troubled company that eventually sold.” [/i]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122170340100750899.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

47

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[i] Sen. Obama is relying on former Clinton administration heavyweights, while Sen. McCain is looking to veterans of the Reagan administration and both Bush presidencies. During Sen. Obama’s conference call, former Treasury bosses Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers, ex-Fed Chairman Paul Volcker and University of California at Berkeley economist Laura Tyson agreed: The message should be that the financial chaos stems from eight years of a Republican hands-off attitude toward financial regulation, a point of view they planned to pin on Sen. McCain.

Sen. McCain’s financial team includes John Thain, the chief executive of Merrill Lynch & Co., who just engineered the firm’s emergency sale to Bank of America. Another aide, Harvard economist Martin Feldstein, is a former adviser to President Reagan and a current member of AIG’s board of directors, while Peter Wallison served as general counsel in the Reagan Treasury and Michael Boskin was an economic adviser to President George H.W. Bush.

When asked about a possible conflict of interest between his advisers and the campaign, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said he saw no such problem. Mr. Feldstein has “no unique influence on John McCain’s policy and no unique influence on AIG’s policy.” As for Mr. Thain, Mr. Bounds said, “He took over a troubled company that eventually sold.” [/i]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122170340100750899.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[/quote]

Fascinating.

You do realize that AIG was a victim of the mortgage and credit crisis rather then a reason (fannie and freddie) and prime driver of that crisis.

Do you agree with Pelosi that the Democrats have no responsibility for this crisis?

48

[quote]hedo wrote:
Do you agree with Pelosi that the Democrats have no responsibility for this crisis?
[/quote]

It is hardly possible that the entire class of politicians who call themselves Democrats are to blame. How can Democrats have any culpability and none of the Republicans do?

This fiasco is the entire responsibility of bad monetary policy and central banking. To that extent the people who prop theses fallible institutions up are to blame in the long run.

49

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
Do you agree with Pelosi that the Democrats have no responsibility for this crisis?

It is hardly possible that the entire class of politicians who call themselves Democrats are to blame. How can Democrats have any culpability and none of the Republicans do?

This fiasco is the entire responsibility of bad monetary policy and central banking. To that extent the people who prop theses fallible institutions up are to blame in the long run.[/quote]

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-dems-bear-no-responsibility-for-economic-crisis-2008-09-16.html

Pelosi: Dems bear no responsibility for economic crisis
By Klaus Marre
Posted: 09/16/08 04:14 PM [ET]

“House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, when asked Tuesday whether Democrats bear some of the responsibility regarding the current crisis on Wall Street, had a one-word answer: �??No.�??”

I agree both sides share the blame. That view isn’t shared by Madame Speaker Pelosi however.

50

Oh God… you guys with your outdated and stereotypical terms like “Marxist” and “Socialist” when referring to the left.

Maybe we lefties should start describing the right as “Fascist” and “Nazi”.

51

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Oh God… you guys with your outdated and stereotypical terms like “Marxist” and “Socialist” when referring to the left.

Maybe we lefties should start describing the right as “Fascist” and “Nazi”. [/quote]

But, you guys really are. Every social problem needs more government intervention. Debt is reduced by tax increases, not spending decreases. You’ve chased the small government democrats out of the party. And, whatever… The Republicans today are pretty much the Democrats of 20-30 years ago.

52

IronDwarf -

The difference is that Socialism and Marxism are terms that Democrats accept and use euphemisms for, while “Nazi” was a party (of Socialists, btw) and Fascism is misunderstood as applied in the U.S.

Government doling out social programs like Welfare, Education, Retirement (ie SS), and other benefits/social engineering, is, by definition, Socialism.

Incidentally, the Democrats push to tighten control of corporations either by regulation or by simply taking over their functions (like healthcare and insurance) is fascism. Research Mussolini’s Italy sometime. He demanded Minimum Wage, like today’s Dems. Corporate (ie unelected quasi-govt) control of industry (Think Nature Conservancy, etc),

About the only thing nearing Fascism from the ‘conservative’ (I use the term loosely) is that class warfare is abhorred and a sense of nationalism.

The more you learn about Fascism, the more you learn that todays Democrats have the worst attributes of it (minus the Nationalism, of course).

53

[quote]hedo wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
[i] Sen. Obama is relying on former Clinton administration heavyweights, while Sen. McCain is looking to veterans of the Reagan administration and both Bush presidencies. During Sen. Obama’s conference call, former Treasury bosses Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers, ex-Fed Chairman Paul Volcker and University of California at Berkeley economist Laura Tyson agreed: The message should be that the financial chaos stems from eight years of a Republican hands-off attitude toward financial regulation, a point of view they planned to pin on Sen. McCain.

Sen. McCain’s financial team includes John Thain, the chief executive of Merrill Lynch & Co., who just engineered the firm’s emergency sale to Bank of America. Another aide, Harvard economist Martin Feldstein, is a former adviser to President Reagan and a current member of AIG’s board of directors, while Peter Wallison served as general counsel in the Reagan Treasury and Michael Boskin was an economic adviser to President George H.W. Bush.

When asked about a possible conflict of interest between his advisers and the campaign, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said he saw no such problem. Mr. Feldstein has “no unique influence on John McCain’s policy and no unique influence on AIG’s policy.” As for Mr. Thain, Mr. Bounds said, “He took over a troubled company that eventually sold.” [/i]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122170340100750899.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Fascinating.

You do realize that AIG was a victim of the mortgage and credit crisis rather then a reason (fannie and freddie) and prime driver of that crisis.

Do you agree with Pelosi that the Democrats have no responsibility for this crisis?

[/quote]

This is a potential problem for McCain. His economic advisors are readily associated with the crashes going on around Wall Street. That makes it easy picking for BO to say “Oh noez --he’s getting advice from the people who wrecked our economy!!!11!!!11!” incorrect of course, but an easy play to make to a lot of people.

I agree AIG was a victim. But they’re not wholly inculpable. I don’t think either political party is wholly inculpable either, although my opinion is that the dems hold more responsibility for F/F than the reps do.

54

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I agree AIG was a victim. But they’re not wholly inculpable. I don’t think either political party is wholly inculpable either, although my opinion is that the dems hold more responsibility for F/F than the reps do.
[/quote]

Why’s that?

55

Why’s what?

56

Fan/Fred is the Democratic Party’s Frankenstein monster. It was created during FDR’s New Deal. It was sewn together with the body parts of a private corporation and the public checkbook by LBJ in 1968. To prevent discredited charges of “discrimination” in the mortgage industry it was directed to make risky, no-down-payment loans by a Democratic Congress in 1992.

As a side note, looky at who F/F gave the money to:

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2008/09/show-me-money.html

57

Bring back Bill Clinton, the country was kicking ass back then.

58

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Fan/Fred is the Democratic Party’s Frankenstein monster. It was created during FDR’s New Deal. It was sewn together with the body parts of a private corporation and the public checkbook by LBJ in 1968.

To prevent discredited charges of “discrimination” in the mortgage industry it was directed to make risky, no-down-payment loans by a Democratic Congress in 1992.

As a side note, looky at who F/F gave the money to:

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2008/09/show-me-money.html[/quote]

Ok thanks

I’ve been asking for a couple of weeks now why people thought the clinton admin and dems were more responsible for this whole debacle. Now I’ve finally received an answer.

I haven’t clicked on that link yet but was there any specific legislation put out that directed or incentivized fannie and freddie to make more risky loans? If the answer is in that link you can ignore this question.

59

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Why’s what?

[/quote]

I was asking why you thought the dems were more responsible.

60

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Bring back Bill Clinton, the country was kicking ass back then.[/quote]

If you use today’s standards and stances of the two parties, it turns out Clinton was a pretty good Republican…