[quote]Sloth wrote:
I think adulterers are immoral. No, it’s not my fault if someone kills one.[/quote]
Why are you contributing to anti-adulterer hate crimes? There is blood on your hands…blood on your hands.
Pretty sure I saw a bunch of tweets that back me up on this.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I think adulterers are immoral. No, it’s not my fault if someone kills one.[/quote]
Adultery has a demonstrable negative to society. It ruins lives, destroys families and is indeed a choice.
Homosexuality is not a choice and harms no one.
You know your example is bunk.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Adultery has a demonstrable negative to society. It ruins lives, destroys families and is indeed a choice.
Homosexuality is not a choice and harms no one.
You know your example is bunk.[/quote]
This is perfect - perfect - to demonstrate your problem.
Sloth’s point was that one person’s moral disapproval for a group of people does not equate to complicity when in someone else’s violence against a member of that group of people. You can’t pin the violence on the perosn who simply happens to disapprove.
And he’s right.
You missed the point completely, and you instead decided to try to explain why adultery is different than homosexuality as a moral matter. It’s irrelevant to the point. The point is that disapproval doesn’t create complicity.
See, you don’t get the point - you can’t follow an argument worth a damn. You didn’t earlier with me re: the Twitter issue, and you don’t now.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I think adulterers are immoral. No, it’s not my fault if someone kills one.[/quote]
Adultery has a demonstrable negative to society. It ruins lives, destroys families and is indeed a choice.
Homosexuality is not a choice and harms no one.
You know your example is bunk.[/quote]
Read T-bolt’s post. But let me ask you a question, since you painted adultery so negatively…Does the adulterous spouse deserve to be murdered by the jilted partner? Does your position here make you guilty in some way of such crimes?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth’s point was that one person’s moral disapproval for a group of people does not equate to complicity when in someone else’s violence against a member of that group of people. You can’t pin the violence on the perosn who simply happens to disapprove.
You missed the point completely, and you instead decided to try to explain why adultery is different than homosexuality as a moral matter. It’s irrelevant to the point. The point is that disapproval doesn’t create complicity.[/quote]
Huh?
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth’s point was that one person’s moral disapproval for a group of people does not equate to complicity when in someone else’s violence against a member of that group of people. You can’t pin the violence on the perosn who simply happens to disapprove.
You missed the point completely, and you instead decided to try to explain why adultery is different than homosexuality as a moral matter. It’s irrelevant to the point. The point is that disapproval doesn’t create complicity.[/quote]
Huh?
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.
[/quote]
So what? We teach adultery to be immoral also.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I think adulterers are immoral. No, it’s not my fault if someone kills one.[/quote]
Adultery has a demonstrable negative to society. It ruins lives, destroys families and is indeed a choice.
Homosexuality is not a choice and harms no one.
You know your example is bunk.[/quote]
Read T-bolt’s post. But let me ask you a question, since you painted adultery so negatively…Does the adulterous spouse deserve to be murdered by the jilted partner? Does your position here make you guilty in some way of such crimes? [/quote]
It’s not for me to decide what happens between a couple when infidelity occurs. That’s for the people in the relationship to decide.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth’s point was that one person’s moral disapproval for a group of people does not equate to complicity when in someone else’s violence against a member of that group of people. You can’t pin the violence on the perosn who simply happens to disapprove.
You missed the point completely, and you instead decided to try to explain why adultery is different than homosexuality as a moral matter. It’s irrelevant to the point. The point is that disapproval doesn’t create complicity.[/quote]
Huh?
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.
[/quote]
So what? We teach adultery to be immoral also.
[/quote]
So What? You are condemning a group who are born a certain way and aren’t doing harm to others.
My original point was anti-gay sentiment. The physical acts of violence against gays can be debated.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth’s point was that one person’s moral disapproval for a group of people does not equate to complicity when in someone else’s violence against a member of that group of people. You can’t pin the violence on the perosn who simply happens to disapprove.
You missed the point completely, and you instead decided to try to explain why adultery is different than homosexuality as a moral matter. It’s irrelevant to the point. The point is that disapproval doesn’t create complicity.[/quote]
Huh?
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.
[/quote]
So what? We teach adultery to be immoral also.
[/quote]
So What? You are condemning a group who are born a certain way and aren’t doing harm to others.
My original point was anti-gay sentiment. The physical acts of violence against gays can be debated.
[/quote]
Condemning them? They’re no more condemned by me then I am by your anti-Christianity.
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.
[/quote]I wrote on 06-28-2011 at 12:44 AM this about Elder Forlife who left his wife and children to be with his “partner”. I stand by every word. [quote]Follow me please. According to the Word of God it is an abomination. A damnable perversion of the created order of the holy designer. Therefore I abhor the practice accordingly as one who proclaims Jesus as my Lord. HOWEVER, my life before Christ was also a damnable abomination and I regularly committed acts of all kinds that should have bought me a one way ticket to the lake of fire. It is only by the unsearchable grace of a merciful God that I type this as a new creature in Christ having been transformed by the power of His blood and resurrection. I am not allowed to hate or self righteously condescend to ANYBODY.
Take elder forlife as an example. I honestly and truly pray for him AND his “partner”. He may not know or believe this, but I have invested myself in him. I care about him. I want him as my brother. How can that ever be if somebody were to round him up and kill him? That’s not what I want. This is not theocratic Israel. One strike and you’re out. I should have been struck dead where I stood ten thousand times. How am I gonna put my nose in the air and cringe and wince at the “filthy fag and his homo boyfriend”? No sir. To me he’s just another lost man who needs Jesus. My hand is always out to him. <<<>>> I would enter a burning building to drag elder forlife to safety. I really would (as I’m preaching the gospel to him even if he was unconscious =] ) That is not just talk and I would not be sorry I did even if he told to f**k off after I saved his life. The Lord loved me and did not give up on me long after I had given up on myself. How can I give anybody else less? Homosexuality is still a capitol crime before the throne of the most high God and I will never dare call it anything else or accept it’s being given social status reserved for a man, his female wife and their children. Many will write me off (again) as an anachronistic fanatical religious antique best put away in an attic somewhere. I couldn’t care less. [/quote]
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Huh?
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.[/quote]
Good Lord, this has become ridiculous. Did you even read the post you responded to?
And who said I was ignoring the fact that Christianity and North American society are intertwined? I didn’t. And what does that have to do with the point I made re: Sloth’s point, that disapproval doesn’t create complicity in violence?
This is comical.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Huh?
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.[/quote]
Good Lord, this has become ridiculous. Did you even read the post you responded to?
And who said I was ignoring the fact that Christianity and North American society are intertwined? I didn’t. And what does that have to do with the point I made re: Sloth’s point, that disapproval doesn’t create complicity in violence?
This is comical.[/quote]
Did you see the part about how the Acts of physical violence is debatable ? My original point was the a to gay sentiment
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America. This isn’t some small minority that disapproves of the gay lifestyle, this is millions upon millions of people. And they are not quiet about it.
Once again, what’s preached in Christians churches effect attitudes in the country as a whole. Christianity and North American society are intertwined. You are completely naive to ignore this.
[/quote]I wrote on 06-28-2011 at 12:44 AM this about Elder Forlife who left his wife and children to be with his “partner”. I stand by every word. [quote]Follow me please. According to the Word of God it is an abomination. A damnable perversion of the created order of the holy designer. Therefore I abhor the practice accordingly as one who proclaims Jesus as my Lord. HOWEVER, my life before Christ was also a damnable abomination and I regularly committed acts of all kinds that should have bought me a one way ticket to the lake of fire. It is only by the unsearchable grace of a merciful God that I type this as a new creature in Christ having been transformed by the power of His blood and resurrection. I am not allowed to hate or self righteously condescend to ANYBODY.
Take elder forlife as an example. I honestly and truly pray for him AND his “partner”. He may not know or believe this, but I have invested myself in him. I care about him. I want him as my brother. How can that ever be if somebody were to round him up and kill him? That’s not what I want. This is not theocratic Israel. One strike and you’re out. I should have been struck dead where I stood ten thousand times. How am I gonna put my nose in the air and cringe and wince at the “filthy fag and his homo boyfriend”? No sir. To me he’s just another lost man who needs Jesus. My hand is always out to him. <<<>>> I would enter a burning building to drag elder forlife to safety. I really would (as I’m preaching the gospel to him even if he was unconscious =] ) That is not just talk and I would not be sorry I did even if he told to f**k off after I saved his life. The Lord loved me and did not give up on me long after I had given up on myself. How can I give anybody else less? Homosexuality is still a capitol crime before the throne of the most high God and I will never dare call it anything else or accept it’s being given social status reserved for a man, his female wife and their children. Many will write me off (again) as an anachronistic fanatical religious antique best put away in an attic somewhere. I couldn’t care less. [/quote]
[/quote]
I’m glad to read this and even thunderdolts comments regarding homosexuality. Unfortunately many show hostility towards homosexuals because god considers it an abomination. From what I’ve read and seen many do not share your perspective
Short responses here typing from phone
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< thunderdolt >>>[/quote]Why is this kinda stuff necessary. Yes, I saw him calling somebody (maybe you) “dumbass” before too. He and I are in the process of falling out and as soon as he sees my post in the hijack haven thread it will probably get worse. Not that that’s what I want, but I ain’t kiddin myself. Regardless, he is in the top one percent… or better in the clear thinking/intelligence/communication department around here. People strut around declaring victory over somebody they’ve just called a moron. Wow, what an achievement. I would much prefer to recognize the capabilities of my opponents. It is one of the greatest fallacies to believe that someone has to be stupid to be wrong. On the contrary. The more brilliant someone is the greater their capacity for monumental error.
It’s not necessary but as a general rule I try to give as good as I get
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< thunderdolt >>>[/quote]Why is this kinda stuff necessary. Yes, I saw him calling somebody (maybe you) “dumbass” before too. He and I are in the process of falling out and as soon as he sees my post in the hijack haven thread it will probably get worse. Not that that’s what I want, but I ain’t kiddin myself. Regardless, he is in the top one percent… or better in the clear thinking/intelligence/communication department around here. People strut around declaring victory over somebody they’ve just called a moron. Wow, what an achievement. I would much prefer to recognize the capabilities of my opponents. It is one of the greatest fallacies to believe that someone has to be stupid to be wrong. On the contrary. The more brilliant someone is the greater their capacity for monumental error.
[/quote]
This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in this tread. It doesn’t even matter who starts it most of the time, but there is a lot of name calling and personal attacks on these threads that is just uncalled for in intellectual debates between adults.
Oh, Thunderbolt, I haven’t ignored your posts asking for an intelligent “lefty” to debate but I still don’t know what this thread is supposed to be about or what you wanted to debate. Homosexual marriage is obviously the main topic, but there are many ways to debate that. We could discuss the legality of anti-gay marriage laws, whether homosexuality is immoral, harmful to society, disgusting, whether the world will end in a fiery blast if homosexuals were allowed to marry. I am open to debate any or all of those as long as we keep things civil.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:<<< If he was that concerned than he wouldn’t have allowed people to BE GAY! If being gay was so bad, they wouldn’t be around, now would they? If they are such an abomination, why hasn’t your God struck them down, committed GENOCIDE? Oh wait, because it’s GENETIC! And STRAIGHT people give birth to GAY people! Shut your hole and go back to being a lurker.[/quote]This level of galactic cluelessness is truly a gold medal achievement.
[/quote]
Give it to raj. He put a lot more effort into earning it here today. He’s also a twisting, unscrupulous little ideologue. Look at the phoney accusations he leveled against TB.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Thousands upon thousands of churches preach homosexuality as a sin to millions of people across North America.[/quote]
As well they should. Just as they preach on adultery, or stealing, or LYING .
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Christianity contributes to anti-gay culture[/quote]
It actually works this way- Some in America think gay is gross, from a purely natural perspective, your pseudo-scientific arguments aside. We Christians also know why its gross, and that God describes it as sin. It’s been that why in the US for DECADES. For many of us, anti-gay=normal. The homoevangelists have been more and more boisterous of late, and those with the opposite view on it are going to answer.
So you see, it’s the gays that are contributing to anti-gay culture. If the homoevangelists would quit banging the gong, ordinary people wouldn’t get so irritated.
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
It cracks me up when people say homosexuality is a choice. Who would chose a lifestyle of ridicule?[/quote]
Who would choose a lifestyle of crack addiction?
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
It actually works this way- Some in America think gay is gross, from a purely natural perspective, your pseudo-scientific arguments aside.
[/quote]
I think a better word would be “counterintuitive.”