You may have to search but I remember something about D3 lowering e2.
You may want to cut back on the D3 like you said. Maybe even stop for a few days then start 1k a day. D3 stays in the body it’s fat soluble. I take a 5k pill a week.
Then I would reassess how you feel before moving dose higher since your free t is above range already.
Vitamin D is a fat - soluble vitamin . In contrast to water- soluble vitamins, the body has no easy way of getting rid of fat - soluble vitamins. For this reason, excessive amounts may build up inside the body
You may be right. I took some ashwaghanda today too and I think that’s when I felt some body aches - when I don’t take it I don’t notice anything. Last I checked E2 it was on the low side (806 T to 27.7 E2).
Will stop Vit D for a few days, then will do 1,000ius for a month before changing anything. If still not that great will go to 28mg dailies. Hopefully this is the fix.
Update: The past few weeks reduced my Vit D from 5,000ius daily to 1,000ius daily, didn’t notice a difference. Week 8-11 still just feeling ok/slightly tired. Still a massive improvement to my 15mg daily protocol where I never felt descent.
One anomaly today and yesterday: Started using a .5 CC syringe with the same dose as usual (22mg derived from 200mg/mL T Cyp to the 11 mark in a 1CC/mL insulin syringe). No idea why this would change anything but been feeling a lot more tired than usual, even took a nap midday. Maybe I slightly overestimated the dose in the 1CC syringe by 1-2mg or so; that’s all I can think of, but it feels like my body is re-syncing or something.
I think tomorrow I’ll go ahead and just do 28mg for 8 weeks straight. If that’s no good, I’m just not someone that feels that good on injections - will have to resort to creams. However, one other potential anomaly is sometimes I feel low e2. Not feeling low e2 anymore since stopping all supplements (ashwagandha, turmeric) except Vit D3 1000ius. Potentially I may do better on EOD, although I’m a bit doubtful. Hopeful 28mg dailies (196mg/weekly) is my perfect dose.
Hey @bcostigan41 how are you on your protocol? I know you were also on 22mg. Personally it helped a lot going from 15mg to 22mg but at almost 12 weeks now, I think the best I’ll get from this protocol is “descent/slightly tired feeling”, will try bumping to 28mg tomorrow for a new protocol. I’m hopeful this is it or I’ll bite the bullet and go with twice a day creams.
Any change so far? If you’ve started 28mg a day? We were in a similar situation, but 150mg put me at 1400+ TT 30+FT and 80+ E2, still without symptom relief, and honestly feeling worse at times compared to 650 TT 22FT and 40E2. Curious if bumping your dose even more seems to have helped, because I’m about to head in the opposite direction. Alot of people disagree that’s the right thing to do, but I’ve never felt as good as I did at 50mg a week. Sounds crazy I know but I think it’s worth a shot
Did you stick with it for 8 weeks? Many people don’t reach homeostasis until 8-12 weeks.
Yep, over 2 weeks in and most of the time I feel pretty good, especially after the injections (worst feeling after waking/before injections). Still have fluctuations so how I feel now likely won’t match after more time passes.
It is possible. Most people on TRT feel best on the upper range of T levels, but there are outliers. They tend to be people with other conditions like diabetes it seems.
If you believe you’ll feel better on 50mg, then commit to it for enough time. I’d personally just do 20mg lower or higher than what got you to “650 TT 22FT and 40E2” and will assess from there. If you feel slightly worse going lower, then go slightly higher a full 8 weeks each protocol change. This should confirm which direction is a positive/negative influence.
The chances you only need 50mg a week is like 1/1000. The chances you need 100mg+ is like 99%. The chances you need 150-200mg is like 90%. More people need 200-300mg than under 100mg I would bet. Note: I pulled these percentages out of my ass, but I’m inclined to think they’re roughly true based observation and many many people who found symptom-relief.
The biggest negative of going too low is you might be stuck in a constant trough through the duration of your protocol. When I switched to 15mg everyday (~100mg/week). I felt like shit everyday for 2 months straight. Pure depression. Bumping my weekly dose by another 50mg/week made me feel like my old self, almost cried, forgot what it felt like to not feel shitty. All because I thought I was “high E2”. With dailies, there’s less room for error but it guarantees the most consistency as your peak and trough are virtually the same.
Interesting. The only time I felt better on 150mg was the first few weeks, and then crashed. One of 2 things happened. #1 my natural production shut down and my leveles decreased ( highly unlikely, as I’ve been on TRT for over a year), OR my T levels rose faster than my E2 and then my E2 caught up and got higher than before.
Your first month ever on TRT doesn’t count to homeostasis as you still retain your natural production of testosterone AND add the injection of T. Most people feel better as their levels are too low. If you took your bloodwork before TRT, your levels should be higher than that. 50mg might get you lower than were you started, thus feeling worse.
2nd. You didn’t say how long you were on 150mg. All I know is you were on it a few weeks (and I assume you stopped?) Anything below 8 weeks doesn’t count as a protocol.
Just stop thinking about E2. Unless you have a rare condition called Aromatase excess syndrome. E2 is a very healthy hormone. Your problem is your testosterone levels are not where they need to be AND you are not on something long enough to reach hemeostasis.
I was on 150mg for over 3 months. So 12+ weeks and my levels were far over normal ranges, nearly 1500 TT, and FT showed 35, but those tests are in accurate so it was definitley higher. No way that at nearly 1500 TT and whatever my FT actually was, it wasn’t enough for me, especially considering my low SHBG. It’s not a lack of T, so it’s another factor. Thyroid panel was fine, cbc looked good, yes I am overweight, but I was losing weight and doing well until increased my dosage, even on the same. Diet and exercise for over a month after that dosage. At some point I think you’d be maxed at with what T can do for you. I think I’m way past that point, but the E2 can still have a negative impact as it goes up. If the benefits of T never stopped at certain levels, you’d see people with 10, 000 TT and crazy FT levels. The thing is, there is a limit until it hurts more than it helps. When you reach the max level of T that benefits you, you’re there, BUT if you keep increasing E2 its gonna hurt you more and more. My levels Pre-trt was in the mid to high 200s. 100mg a week put me at 650TT. 50MG I would think puts me around 350-400 and around where I’m at now (84mg) would put me in the 400-600 range. I was doing better at 650 than I am at almost 1500. And yes I know that 400 would be around the bottom of the range, but people at 400 TT with 40 SHBG are gonna have alot less to use than myself at 400 TT and less than 20 SHBG. I just don’t think I need as much. Sorry for grammar, on my junk phone. On 50mg I felt better than I ever have, and yes I’m sure my weight had an effect, but I don’t beleive that’s the only issue.
Need to get under 15-20% bodyfat or you’ll have problems. Did you feel good after 8 weeks on the previous protocol?
Yep, I’m proposing taking the lowest amount for symtom-relief. Many people need higher doses for this relief. But some do need lower doses.
Why?
Ok, try 50mg for 8 weeks and report back. That should put you at around 400 range. As long as it’s decently higher than your pre-T levels it should be worth trying.
I’m kind of scared to take such a big drop, but I’m thinking about it. I wasn’t on the slight dose drop for 8 weeks, I only did it for 5. Thing is, they recommended a dosage drop and AI. I don’t want the AI, so to combat E2, I’m lowering my dose more than they recommended. I did their plan for 5 weeks, taking AI and all, and I just decided I truly don’t want an AI, so I did the other thing to combat it. Yes I know body fat increases E2 conversion, and I’m working on that too. And as far as “why” e2 negatively impacts you as it rises, it just does. Men aren’t supposed to have that much E2, as it rises it wrecks your body. High e2 increases risk of death and other issues through various ways by a good amount, increases body fat and water retention, affects erections and libido just like low T. As T goes UP however its meant to improve these symptoms. As E2 goes up, it’s going to worsen symptoms. High E2 and Low T symptoms are very similar. I’m about to take my injection right now and I’m debating 50mg. Another thing I’ve read, is that certain people’s bodies just can’t metabolize that much test, and it overloads their system. I don’t know what “system” the posts were referring to, but thyroid was mentioned