It was actually a very good book. I would highly recommend it, hope that’s not a crime… 
As far as your other statements go, I understand where you are coming from. I think part of the disconnect is simply the difference between how we (American’s) view thing vs. you guys. Getting permission to travel, for example, is just so foreign to me. Having to defend against downloading or reading “propaganda” again is just so foreign to me.
I usually hate Houellebecq and his works - not to mention that he looks like a sex offender - but Submission is very thought provoking.
Added to my ever growing backlist.
Comrade, it is only as criminal as your guilty mind
It is foreign to my sensibilities as well. But I am honestly at a loss. We lack the capacity of personal self-defense Americans do, but the State seems either impotent or paralyzed, and the problem is getting worse.
I am sick of hearing the words “known to authorities” every time these attacks happen. I am similarly sick of people preaching about the inevitable death of the “Kuffar” on the streets of London.
I’ll reflexively go with my usual standard of remembering that laws enacted in haste are repealed at leisure, and see how things develop.
He writes like a sex offender as well. But Submission had me thinking throughout “this is plausible” and I didn’t like the implications of that thought.
As an outsider, it seems to me this is the real long term problem(s).
I hear you. I do.
I think that’s wise. I mentioned in the Obama wiretapping thread we’re still seeing the fallout from the Patriot Act and the long-term government overreach it unintentionally allowed for.
Would banning Muslims solve the terror issue? In the short-term, probably. Would it create a handful of long-term problems that we can see coming and a handful of ones we can’t? Ya, I’d bet money on it.
Well if what they are preaching is directly against our core values and they are encouraging action to be taken they deserve prison. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
If their speech leads to something like an attack that’s a different story,
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So we must wait till more are killed then detain them? Good reasoning. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
What if you’re doing research for a book? What if it’s an accident? What if it’s a part of a virus?
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Obviously you would be interviewed before prison to see why they owned them. If someone downloads a ISIS handbook on ways to kill as many civilians as possible they deserve the intervention taken. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
I read this last year should I be detained?
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Did it specifically tell you how to maim as many civilians as possible? If no then no. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
Similar to #1.
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If you think supporting a terrorist group by owning their flag is acceptable you are wrong. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
Thought police much?
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I’ll quote someone you probably dislike but he’s got a point:
“I will not just simply allow my people to be slaughtered for the sake of human rights; that’s bullshit,”
Someone writes on Facebook “I sympathise with suicide bombers” they within 24 hours are detained and thoroughly questioned. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
What if you were born in a “terrorist” country and you go back to fight against terrorism or to help family still there or any number of reasons?
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Would need extensive checks to be allowed there and back in. As long as detailed proof of your time there. No exceptions. [quote=“anon50325502, post:140, topic:229963”]
I prefer dangerous liberty over peaceful slavery.
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Funnily enough I would rather a 6 year old girl was still alive over some troglodyte filth having liberty.
I have said this before and I will say it again; you are young, nieve, and haven’t thought this through.
You’re missing the point. It isn’t about the liberty of some “troglodyte filth” it’s about your liberty.
PWI, hilarious as usual.
How would my Liberty be restricted in any way as I am not under a single one of the conditions I laid out.
I would rather have my Liberty restricted than having to fear going out in a crowded city because the terror threat is critical at all moments.
This is something you will learn as your government continues to militarize your police force, when speech becomes a crime (something you’re advocating for), and so on and so forth. I don’t expect you to understand as a teenager, I certainly didn’t.
You are free to your opinion, but this is, again, part of the disconnect between Brits and Americans. I would rather die free than live as a subject. I would think someone that can drive to a castle would understand that.
Honestly I would rather have a police force capable of stopping a attacker than one equipped with batons only. [quote=“anon50325502, post:151, topic:229963”]
when speech becomes a crime
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Speech here is often treated as a crime. Just look at Katie Hopkins being reported to the Met Police for a tweet wanting a solution. [quote=“anon50325502, post:151, topic:229963”]
part of the disconnect between Brits and Americans. I would rather die free than live as a subject.
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You don’t understand that we would not be living as subjects at all. The only people living as subjects would be potential terrorists. Sane normal people have absolutely zero to fear.
Again, you’re welcome to your opinion. For now, anyway.
That’s a shame.
The vast majority of human history says otherwise.
So what do you suggest as an alternative to controlling what a very small minority of people can do?
Controlling what a few can do as a way to ensure safety for the masses is always a good plan.
Do you want teenage girls murdered with no retribution in the name of a small few having liberty?
No. You do realize that the ability to criminalize speech means you’re next right? When the government can arbitrarily decide which thoughts and speech are crimes, then they will eventually decide YOUR speech and YOUR thoughts are a crime.
There is a line between free speech and insighting violence. We need to keep that line crystal clear and not let it go gray. Otherwise next week/month/year a conservative saying “we need less spending” or “the PM is corrupt” will be deemed thoughtcrime.
Sweden is still jailing people for sedition. Not treason or attempting to overthrow the government… just opposing a policy. That is scary as hell. It can happen in the West again. We’ve spilled a lot of blood for millennia to get to the point where we can say in writing: “our executive is an asshole” and nobody comes to lynch you or cut out your tounge. It wasn’t that long ago this wasn’t the case. Many places on earth don’t have that right. Try it in China or Russia…
The powers you are suggesting you give to your government will eventually be pointed at you or someone you care about. You will have no recourse or defense once the genie is out of that bottle.
For now, once you allow the government the liberty of deciding exactly what you can do (whether or not you do that specific thing at the moment) it opens the doors to other liberties being taken, I am with usmc as far as living with dangerous freedom as opposed to peaceful slavery, once you give someone else the ability to govern your thoughts and your movements, you are no longer truly free.
And this is simply silly, engaging in hyperbole like this does nothing to further your case or promote discussion.
Edit: As I was finishing mine, @Basement_Gainz posted his and he said it much better than I could have.
@Basement_Gainz and @Despade covered it very well.
This right here sums up probably 50% of why I oppose a “Muslim ban”.
I realise this. The people decide which lines of thoughts should be punishable by law, not the Government. Simply hold a vote saying should anyone with ISIS ideologies be punished as a way of preventing terror attacks. Only whiny liberal free thought activist would vote against, no one wants to see a repeat of Manchester. [quote=“Basement_Gainz, post:155, topic:229963”]
We need to keep that line crystal clear and not let it go gray.
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I agree one hundred percent. [quote=“Basement_Gainz, post:155, topic:229963”]
Sweden is still jailing people for sedition.
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Sweden has completely “cucked” itself. In an effort to be politically correct and nice they have become the rape capital of Europe. No sympathy from me.
Depends what you are controlling. Controlling actions, absolutely. Controlling thoughts and speech are completely different.
I’m with @anon50325502 and @Basement_Gainz regarding the slippery slope it can create and what history shows.
@hugh_gilly I want to emphasize the quote above, because it was one of the first lessons I learned here. Hyperbole doesn’t not contribute to a meaningful discussion, and is usually comes off as trolling.
