Well said!
2 Likes
It takes political will to say: āInciting violence in this manner wonāt be tolerated. It isnāt welcome here, it is grounds for ejection from our country.ā Some leader has to be strong enough to deliver that message and implement those policies over teeth-grinding, shirt rending cries of āracism!ā and āislamophobiaā.
It would take someone deft enough to parse that message and say āwe are not condemning all 2 billion Muslims. We are not criminalizing speech, but rather the act of inciting violence and recruiting others to commit that violence. We wouldnāt put up with it from any group of non muslims, and we wonāt put up with it from radicalized muslims either.ā
3 Likes
I think the Ahmadis and Sikhs might be more acutely aware of UK Islamists. The Sikhs have been banging their heads against a wall trying to get people to listen for decades.
It makes me go insane when Islam is treated as a monolith following these attacks. Every time, we get a feel good story āMuslims reject terrorā which, on even cursory examination is revealed to be the Ahmadiyya or Shias.
Every time this mistake occurs we are failing these people. They are not all created equally and the Ahmadis are, in particular, badly affected by the mistake.
3 Likes
Prohibitions against treason are as old as tea. We need to start treating this radicalisation (and its deft skirting of current legal standards) as sedition.
You can be a conservative, or deeply conservative Muslim. But if you are advocating for theocracy or acting as a shield for these losers, then this should have ramifications.
1 Like
That is the $1000000 question. I would add, I am somewhat confused by the UK authorities putting radical preachers into state paid government housing for their safety. Give them back their passports and then drone strike them once they hit Syria.
1 Like
And here lies the catch. If youāre a āconservativeā Muslim, meaning radical Sunni Islamist youāre by definition trying to overthrow the infidel political system.
Radical sunni Islamism cannot be contained in the privacy of oneās home or community because following Quran to the letter obliges you to try to impose your moral and social standars on the infidel.
1 Like
Agreed. If it were contained to individual or family action, that would be one thing. it isnāt, so it is another.
The Mayor London is putting up extra bollards in dense areas as well as increased policing in the streets. It will not be enough. As long as these people are free to walk the streets people are at risk. Nothing can be done about someone hiring a van and taking their kitchen knives into the streets. You have to remove the person first and foremost.
The attacker was in a park with a ISIS flag trying to convert children and was somehow still left to be free.
1 Like
I was asked this question under the "Paris Attack " thread on the Combat Forum. Unfortunately unless you are armed, (and then it is very hard to either hit the driver and damn near impossible to stop a vehicle unless armed with a very heavy caliber rifle) then situational awareness becomes your only line of defense.
I wish , I could offer you a better solution. Here is my previous answer:
"Other than a suicide bomber driving a Toyota, who, was hell bent on ramming our vehicle in Baghdad, I have not encountered that situtaion, so, I am not going to be much help. That appears to be a isolated ISIS tactic. If in an active area of operations or in the States, I would simply do my best to either kill the driver or possibly disable the vehicle (would have to be small).
However, if you are in Europe, chances are you will not be armed, since, European governments prize gun control over human lives anyday. Other than being aware of everything around you at all times, avoiding major tourist avenues, one way dead end streets, avoiding streets where you cannot escape the narrow sidewalks, etc. I know that is not much help, but, other than lethal force, I dont know a good way to stop a large heavy truck from running people down. Maybe, someone living in Europe can offer a better solution"
Loppar,
Thanks for the information. I was only speaking from my experience from training and working in western European countries. Even most of the police I worked with at the time, did not carry off duty, hopefully, that is changing now.
4 Likes
This has happened with a fair regularity in Israel. Fortunately, most citizens are military, reserve, or ex-military and have government-issued weapons.
Most recently it happened and a guy jumped up on the hood of the attacking car and shot the driver with his sidearm about 10 times and killed him through the window. So it can be done with a pistol.
4 Likes
Thatās some cool Jew Jitsu right there.
4 Likes
Northern Ireland have a fully armed police force (only one in the UK) and that is entirely due to to terrorism risks. The Met staying the unarmed course now is more for ideological reasons than practical reasons.
We reached our fill of this crap 50 years ago. You can have a free society and take care of Muslim terrorists.
And yes, Muslims in Israel get some annoying and probably unfair scrutiny. But they prefer living in Israel to any other country in the ME.
Why?
Because by screening out the whackos and keeping a lid on the radicals, people donāt view normal Muslims as anything other than fellow citizens. My next door neighbor is a Muslim. I watched his kids play Legos on the floor of my office with my grandchildren for two hours so he could go to Mosque undistracted.
The cure for āIslamaphobiaā is to make people not afraid of Muslims. The way you make people not afraid of Muslims, is you put the radical 3-4% in a hole in the desert.
Youāve got peat bogs in England. Put them to use.
11 Likes
I meant the individual act of diving on the hood of a moving car and shooting the occupant 10 times. Not sure they cover that in basic Krav Maga class. Pretty cool really.
My dad always summarized the Israeli mindset thusly: āThey arenāt going back to the chambers.ā
As a US lawyer who has worked overseas and for one of your magic circle, let me say that youāre going to find yourself in the same catch 22 here unless you move to a red state, in which case your U.K. background will become a challenge. Be careful about the move. Iām actually happy to talk offline if you like.
1 Like
I fucking love the IDF and Israel. You get attacked you defend yourself. Someone threatens to destroy you then you take it seriously. Iām liberal when it comes to the basics of discrimination and the like, but weakness isnāt a damned virtue and thatās something our bubbles here need to learn.
Something Iāve always been wanting to ask you, JB:
How in the world does Israel prevent bad stuff from going down at Ben Gurion airport?
I would imagine that the security has no comparison anywhere in the World?
Probably my favorite single line in this thread. Second that suggestion!!
Jewbacca as always good insights.
1 Like
I would definitely take you up on that offer at some point this weekend.
Worth a read - again, itās about Saudi Arabia