Man Arrested Trying to Save His Dog

Off Topic
81

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
matsm21 wrote:
Bud, that’s fine, go save your dog. Just don’t call the police, and then get angry when they attempt to do it the safest way possible THEN engage them in an altercation and run like a lunatic into the water.

First, I agree, the guy is a dumbass, but the cops weren’t much better.

Second, the cops weren’t attempting anything, they were waiting.

Third, the safest for whom? Not the dog. Not the rescue guys (they were already going to be going out on the ice for the dog). The guy is the one really taking all the risk and that’s his prerogative, plus the rescue guys were already on the way so I don’t think the chances of him seriously getting hurt were all that high.

The police made notifications to do it the safest way possible.

Ice rescue is dangerous. It’s not like they are out there for the dog and will just swing by the guy, grab him and head in.

So I guess the question is, if you were the police, would you let that guy run into the water at that point in time?

[/quote]

If it’s that dangerous, and the dog is that un-important, why would the rescuers go in after the dog?

And yes, then I would have laughed at him and thanked him for attempting to rid himself from the gene pool.

82

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
matsm21 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

They have no right to keep me alive if I choose not to live. Ever heard of a DNR order?

You have a right to be an idiot and risk your life. Much more so in order to save a valued, irreplaceable friend.

Well, yes they do. If someone wants to commit suicide the police(and other agencies as well) have an obligation to step in and prevent it if notified. In the case of the dog, the reasoning is more a product of our litigious society and the fact that the white trash family in the video would sue the local municipality if the dumbass died.

In the world you imagine in your head where everyone does their own thing and never affects anybody else, it’s fine for the police to let you jump in the water. That’s not the world we live in though. They don’t do what they do because they want to tell people what to do. There are reasons.

And I would disagree as much with them suing the cops if he died. “To avoid a lawsuit” isn’t legal authorization for actions though. Besides, if the dog had died, you think they wouldn’t have sued?

It’s a sad world if police are having to start basing policies on suing avoidance rather than the law.

Some do some don’t, depends on the cop. Unfortunately I think the people that get into it for the right reasons are in the minority. However, my experience isn’t conclusive evidence.

If we are going to make it a crime to do something stupid, we are going to have serious over crowding problems in jails.[/quote]

Already there.

83

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

If it’s that dangerous, and the dog is that un-important, why would the rescuers go in after the dog?

And yes, then I would have laughed at him and thanked him for attempting to rid himself from the gene pool.[/quote]

I think you’re getting a little crazy here. They are doing a service for the guy. The dog is important enough. The fact of the matter is that it IS dangerous enough, and there is no need for it to be made even more so.

And if anything would have happened to that guy while you stood idly by(all caught on camera of course) You would have lost your job. You can say all you want how it should be and it’s the big old governments fault, we are so controlled wah wah wah. That’s the real world. Don’t like it go live in the woods by yourself and you can save dogs all you want.

84

[quote]elusive wrote:
shoo wrote:
As much as I hate those police officercs for hauling him off to jail they were right in stopping him from going into the lake. I didn’t hear them say they had those ice surfers on the way either, in that case they’re genuine assholes.

In case they did say help was coming, then if he wanted to rescue the dog himself he wouldn’t wait 30 minutes until the newsteam and some cops arrived.

He’d either storm in quickly or wait until they got him up. So I’ll assume they didn’t let him know and the family and newsteam did the wrong thing by not knocking those officers down the water after the dog was up.

That is one badass dog though, totally calm going up to the family and then waiting for the fat mom when she turns back. If I was in ice cold water for half an hour I’d run home fast as hell for some heat.

On another note, who the hell is that in your avatar? =P[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing!

85

[quote]Christine wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Christine wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
matsm21 wrote:
you’d let another human being die while you saved the dog?

You’d let a being that you’d raised since birth, cared for, loved you and were loved back by in return, die while you saved some total, complete stranger just because he more closely resembles what you see in the mirror?

Wouldn’t even think twice about it.

Remarkably cold-hearted.

See, I think the same thing about anyone who would choose an animal over a human. I guess there are PETA freaks who would probably agree with you.

I suppose you would have no problem with me saving a cat instead of your child (or brother, sister, best friend, etc.)?
[/quote]

This is a really stupid rhetorical question. of course I would prefer that you save MY child/brother/etc over some animal to whom I have no connection. But then again I would prefer that you save MY child/brother over your own child/brother/etc. The fact that you wouldnt save my brother over your own brother doesnt mean that I dont understand your decision.

Is the fact that this hypothetical boy in the lake somebody’s son what is driving you? What if he’s an orphan? What if he’s a drifter? Really, what is the connection, here, what is the imaginary dividing line in your mind?

I called you cold-hearted because you’re ignoring your emotions; while I have emotions, common human empathy, for the hypothetical boy in the lake, those emotions are not as strong as the ones I woudl feel for my hypothetical dog. The fact that you are saying that you could love, care for, raise and share your life with your dog and then - snap - turn those emotions off just like that, like a robot, is so frightening to me and makes me question whether or not you’re capable of those very feelings that you claim to be able to possess.

86

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Christine wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Christine wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
matsm21 wrote:
you’d let another human being die while you saved the dog?

You’d let a being that you’d raised since birth, cared for, loved you and were loved back by in return, die while you saved some total, complete stranger just because he more closely resembles what you see in the mirror?

Wouldn’t even think twice about it.

Remarkably cold-hearted.

See, I think the same thing about anyone who would choose an animal over a human. I guess there are PETA freaks who would probably agree with you.

I suppose you would have no problem with me saving a cat instead of your child (or brother, sister, best friend, etc.)?

This is a really stupid rhetorical question. of course I would prefer that you save MY child/brother/etc over some animal to whom I have no connection. But then again I would prefer that you save MY child/brother over your own child/brother/etc. The fact that you wouldnt save my brother over your own brother doesnt mean that I dont understand your decision.

Is the fact that this hypothetical boy in the lake somebody’s son what is driving you? What if he’s an orphan? What if he’s a drifter? Really, what is the connection, here, what is the imaginary dividing line in your mind?

I called you cold-hearted because you’re ignoring your emotions; while I have emotions, common human empathy, for the hypothetical boy in the lake, those emotions are not as strong as the ones I woudl feel for my hypothetical dog. The fact that you are saying that you could love, care for, raise and share your life with your dog and then - snap - turn those emotions off just like that, like a robot, is so frightening to me and makes me question whether or not you’re capable of those very feelings that you claim to be able to possess.

[/quote]

I’m going to risk jumping in for Christine since I agree with her position entirely. She didn’t once say she is ignoring her emotions. If she is anything like me, it would be acting in spite of those emotions. In my opinion, there is no imaginary dividing line. The importance of a human life will always trump the importance of an animal’s life. Life is sometimes about difficult, heart wrenching decisions. Because you believe you would make certain decisions in spite of your emotions does not make you heartless or robotic.

87

good thing that dogs alright!

88

Watching that video made me mad as fuck. I’m with Threewhitelights on this.

I’ve had my dog for over 6 years and I consider him a member of my family, a brother.

It’s stupid saying “if there was a person or a dog in a lake…” because there wasnt a fucking person on the lake. When that happens, we’ll discuss it.

That police department couldnt find a 25 foot rope? Anywhere?

There were cars around. There were plenty of people around. They could have managed to get the dog out relatively safely had everyone thought about it for a minunte.

As stated before, humans are way tougher than we think. People have fallen in the ice before for longer than 5 minutes and lived.

Take your clothes off, heat up a car with the heat blasting, tie a rope securely around your torso/legs, and slide out there to get your fucking dog. Yeah, I’m risking hypothermia (or worse*) for a loved one.

I put that * there because the police and the others could have pulled my ass out of the ice if need be. They also could have provided me CPR if need be. They also could have dried me off inside the absurdly hot car that’s been blasting the heat for the past 5 minutes to warm my body temperature.

I would bet that the majority of the people who said they would try to save the dog are, or at one point, were dog owners. I’d also bet that the majority of the people who said they wouldnt save the dog are not, or were never dog owners.

89

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Christine wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Christine wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
matsm21 wrote:
you’d let another human being die while you saved the dog?

You’d let a being that you’d raised since birth, cared for, loved you and were loved back by in return, die while you saved some total, complete stranger just because he more closely resembles what you see in the mirror?

Wouldn’t even think twice about it.

Remarkably cold-hearted.

See, I think the same thing about anyone who would choose an animal over a human. I guess there are PETA freaks who would probably agree with you.

I suppose you would have no problem with me saving a cat instead of your child (or brother, sister, best friend, etc.)?

This is a really stupid rhetorical question. of course I would prefer that you save MY child/brother/etc over some animal to whom I have no connection. But then again I would prefer that you save MY child/brother over your own child/brother/etc. The fact that you wouldnt save my brother over your own brother doesnt mean that I dont understand your decision.

Is the fact that this hypothetical boy in the lake somebody’s son what is driving you? What if he’s an orphan? What if he’s a drifter? Really, what is the connection, here, what is the imaginary dividing line in your mind?

I called you cold-hearted because you’re ignoring your emotions; while I have emotions, common human empathy, for the hypothetical boy in the lake, those emotions are not as strong as the ones I woudl feel for my hypothetical dog. The fact that you are saying that you could love, care for, raise and share your life with your dog and then - snap - turn those emotions off just like that, like a robot, is so frightening to me and makes me question whether or not you’re capable of those very feelings that you claim to be able to possess.

I’m going to risk jumping in for Christine since I agree with her position entirely. She didn’t once say she is ignoring her emotions. If she is anything like me, it would be acting in spite of those emotions. In my opinion, there is no imaginary dividing line. The importance of a human life will always trump the importance of an animal’s life. Life is sometimes about difficult, heart wrenching decisions. Because you believe you would make certain decisions in spite of your emotions does not make you heartless or robotic.[/quote]

Thank you, ouroboro. The funny thing here is that I really don’t like people all that much. They sort of annoy me, generally speaking that is.

But yes, KBC, I would choose any of my own relatives above yours. But I also have no doubt I would let any animal die before sacrificing almost any human life. And I only say almost in the case I run into Bin Laden or someone equally as horrific. You would have to be a very seriously bad person before I would consider the life of an animal before yours.

90

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

I would bet that the majority of the people who said they would try to save the dog are, or at one point, were dog owners. I’d also bet that the majority of the people who said they wouldnt save the dog are not, or were never dog owners.[/quote]

I wouldn’t save a dog’s life over a human life.

I would attempt to save a dog’s life. Just not at the expense of my own or another human life.

This has nothing to do with ever having owned a dog or not.

91

[quote]Christine wrote:

I wouldn’t save a dog’s life over a human life.

I would attempt to save a dog’s life. Just not at the expense of my own or another human life.

This has nothing to do with ever having owned a dog or not.

[/quote]

It also doesn’t have much with “but what if a person AND the dog were in the water?” because there isn’t a person in the water freezing while people stand by. What I said, is my dog is my family, and I would risk my life to save him. Apparently some people here think that is convoluted (not even the right use of the word) and that it makes my values twisted.

I don’t have much “real” family. I grew up with a screwed up upbringing, and the only living things that were ever close to me were my sister and my dog. Yes, I care for that dog more than I care for most people, and yes, he is my family. I’d have no problem going into freezing water for him, and I sure as shit don’t care if some asshole thinks that means I have twisted values.

92

[quote]TC wrote:

For all intents and purposes, these dogs are my children and I tell you without hesitation or exaggeration that if someone came to my house to destroy them, I would do whatever was necessary to thwart them. And, if I had to, I would kill the intruders using whatever tool was available, a butcher knife, a chain saw, a baseball bat, my bare hands, or a gun.

[/quote]

For the record, I’m not the only one that feels this way…

93

[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
Christine wrote:

I wouldn’t save a dog’s life over a human life.

I would attempt to save a dog’s life. Just not at the expense of my own or another human life.

This has nothing to do with ever having owned a dog or not.

It also doesn’t have much with “but what if a person AND the dog were in the water?” because there isn’t a person in the water freezing while people stand by. What I said, is my dog is my family, and I would risk my life to save him. Apparently some people here think that is convoluted (not even the right use of the word) and that it makes my values twisted.

I don’t have much “real” family. I grew up with a screwed up upbringing, and the only living things that were ever close to me were my sister and my dog. Yes, I care for that dog more than I care for most people, and yes, he is my family. I’d have no problem going into freezing water for him, and I sure as shit don’t care if some asshole thinks that means I have twisted values.

[/quote]

If there were a person (a stranger to me) and a dog in the water at the same time and I were the only person there to save them, I would attempt to save the person first.

I have no problem with anyone attempting to save their animal.

I do have a problem with anyone thinking that the life of an animal trumps that of a human.

94

The real underlying question is why, if the man thought it would be a good idea to jump in the lake at that point in time did he not do it without calling the police? Your going to do it, why get in an argument about it. I have a feeling there are some other (possibly mental) issues going on.

Oh and for the guy who’s going to tie a rope to himself and jump in: Have you ever jumped in frigid water like that? I have. Your body goes into shock and you cannot move. If the water’s over head height you’re going to drown. But again, if you’re going to do it, fine. Why call the police?

95

[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
TC wrote:

For all intents and purposes, these dogs are my children and I tell you without hesitation or exaggeration that if someone came to my house to destroy them, I would do whatever was necessary to thwart them. And, if I had to, I would kill the intruders using whatever tool was available, a butcher knife, a chain saw, a baseball bat, my bare hands, or a gun.

For the record, I’m not the only one that feels this way…[/quote]

Dude, no one thinks your fucked up for saving a dog. A dog over a human yes, but that was a tangent that wasn’t really related to this situation.

96

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
threewhitelights wrote:
TC wrote:

For all intents and purposes, these dogs are my children and I tell you without hesitation or exaggeration that if someone came to my house to destroy them, I would do whatever was necessary to thwart them. And, if I had to, I would kill the intruders using whatever tool was available, a butcher knife, a chain saw, a baseball bat, my bare hands, or a gun.

For the record, I’m not the only one that feels this way…

Dude, no one thinks your fucked up for saving a dog. A dog over a human yes, but that was a tangent that wasn’t really related to this situation.
[/quote]

I agree that it was a stupid tangent that occurred, but nonetheless it happened.

The guy in the video waited for other people to come and help him. He could have chosen to attempt to rescue his dog on his own, but didn’t. The guy in the video then threw a hissy fit while waiting for people to come and rescue his dog.

I don’t even agree that the police should have shown more empathy to the situation. Their job was to make sure the situation didn’t deteriorate. The job of the police was not to save the dog. If the guy had jumped into freezing water, the situation would have been worse. There would have been a person and a dog in need of rescue then.

97

[quote]Christine wrote:

I agree that it was a stupid tangent that occurred, but nonetheless it happened.

The guy in the video waited for other people to come and help him. He could have chosen to attempt to rescue his dog on his own, but didn’t. The guy in the video then threw a hissy fit while waiting for people to come and rescue his dog.

I don’t even agree that the police should have shown more empathy to the situation. Their job was to make sure the situation didn’t deteriorate. The job of the police was not to save the dog. If the guy had jumped into freezing water, the situation would have been worse. There would have been a person and a dog in need of rescue then.

[/quote]

+1 and the police still notified a crew to come out and rescue the dog, I guess the response time didn’t satisfy the nut.

98

[quote]Christine wrote:
I wouldn’t save a dog’s life over a human life.

I would attempt to save a dog’s life. Just not at the expense of my own or another human life.

This has nothing to do with ever having owned a dog or not.

[/quote]

Christine, what I was trying to say is that I think people who have owned dogs understand the bond that a dog has with his/her owner. Have you ever owned a dog?

I didnt get a dog until I was 14 or so, and I do remember before then thinking that some people I know are crazy for doing some things they do for their dogs. Now that I’ve had my [amazing] dog for 6 years, I honestly would bare the brunt of jumping into that frozen lake to save my best friends life.

99

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
Christine wrote:

I agree that it was a stupid tangent that occurred, but nonetheless it happened.

The guy in the video waited for other people to come and help him. He could have chosen to attempt to rescue his dog on his own, but didn’t. The guy in the video then threw a hissy fit while waiting for people to come and rescue his dog.

I don’t even agree that the police should have shown more empathy to the situation. Their job was to make sure the situation didn’t deteriorate. The job of the police was not to save the dog. If the guy had jumped into freezing water, the situation would have been worse. There would have been a person and a dog in need of rescue then.

+1 and the police still notified a crew to come out and rescue the dog, I guess the response time didn’t satisfy the nut.
[/quote]

Exactly. ill say it again, the only thing the police did wrong was not control the guy better from the begining. He should have been in the back of the police car until the dog was rescued. As for the police being more compassionate, thats kind of hard to do when the entire family is screaming and the guy is dropping F bombs right in the cops face.

100

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
threewhitelights wrote:
TC wrote:

For all intents and purposes, these dogs are my children and I tell you without hesitation or exaggeration that if someone came to my house to destroy them, I would do whatever was necessary to thwart them. And, if I had to, I would kill the intruders using whatever tool was available, a butcher knife, a chain saw, a baseball bat, my bare hands, or a gun.

For the record, I’m not the only one that feels this way…

Dude, no one thinks your fucked up for saving a dog. A dog over a human yes, but that was a tangent that wasn’t really related to this situation.
[/quote]

You apparently do. I call my dog “my baby” and you think it’s fucked up.

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
threewhitelights wrote:

Yes, I treat my dog as I would treat my child. Is there a problem with that?

yes. your values are fucked up.

[/quote]