Majority Against Auto Industry Bailout

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Government, union bullshit AND mickey mouse management have all three turned the city that put the world on wheels into a financial joke. The worst possible thing that could happen would be for these congressional vultures to get their poisonous claws even further into these companies by loaning them money and then setting policy for them.

[/quote]

If the car business would do so much better without government assistance, why aren’t the executives aiming the business into chapter 11 and shedding the more dysfunctional labor agreements? Why are they asking for money?

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Many are afraid of Ch11 → Ch7 with the current lack of credit available. I haven’t really looked into it, but it seems the govt role should be to let them go into ch11, then if the credit markets really aren’t working, prevent a slide into ch7…anyone care to explain these issues? I was watching Sachs and Stiglitz (on two different shows) discussing this, but I’m too damn busy to look it up now.

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[quote]Otep wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Government, union bullshit AND mickey mouse management have all three turned the city that put the world on wheels into a financial joke. The worst possible thing that could happen would be for these congressional vultures to get their poisonous claws even further into these companies by loaning them money and then setting policy for them.

If the car business would do so much better without government assistance, why aren’t the executives aiming the business into chapter 11 and shedding the more dysfunctional labor agreements? Why are they asking for money?[/quote]

Who wants to be at the helm when that happens? Honestly, I don’t think any of them have a clue what to do. That doesn’t mean I’m saying I could do that job, but the auto industry in this country has been in steady decline for a long time.

The union contracts are absolutely prohibitive. The janitors in the building I spent most of my time in made 32 dollars an hour to clean floors and empty garbage. The millrights didn’t do shit and what they were supposed to we could have done, but weren’t allowed to on pain of termination.

Ford people get almost an extra month off each year with pay for “Ford” holidays in addition to national holidays and vacation. We had to take our vacation days to cover that time or go without pay.

Every department views themselves as an isolated entity and does whatever is best for them with no regard for how it will affect the other departments their work will eventually wind up in.

They are forced to pay people who are laid off and engaged in various other forms of nonproductivity which is money down the drain. They are not running charities.

None of this is even to mention that leviathan of a monstrous scam known as healthcare which is probably the single most draining element of all. I have customers who haven’t worked for 20 years and still have full coverage from their auto industry job.

Also for the record, I read an article in Forbes a while ago that did the numbers and if you took the top 5 execs from the Fortune 500 companies and distributed their entire income, salary, expenses and bonuses evenly across the employees of those companies it would add up to a grand total of about 20 bucks a year per person. Executive bullshit is not THE problem.

I will say though that it didn’t go over well when one Friday Bill Ford sent out a global e-mail telling us all how we would have to tighten our belts and make some sacrifices for the good of the company as he was leaving on his private Lear Jet for a 75,000 dollar weekend to Florida to one his many million plus dollar homes.

The auto industry must be re-imagined from the ground up with profitability uppermost in mind and unfettered by those incompetent know nothing know it alls in congress if there is any hope of their long term viability.

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It sickens me that the dems are so trigger happy to throw money at the auto industry. You don’t see Honda, Toyota or any other auto company asking for handouts. If the entire auto industry is in so much trouble, how are these other companies surviving. I don’t see how the dems can’t see that this is basic economics here.

25

[quote]streamline wrote:
Bail them out under these conditions

1/ All union worker take a 25% pay cut

2/ Union workers can not strike for seven years

3/ Management most cancel all bonus, perks and expense accounts

4/ Management must show a financial plan for rebuilding the industry

Put up or fuck off![/quote]

I disagree.

They should get a 40% pay cut and be forced to pay for their health insurance like the rest of us.

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The best part is, Chrysler doesn’t even need the money:

Its always good to have friends on high places.

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[quote]ryanjm wrote:
It sickens me that the dems are so trigger happy to throw money at the auto industry. You don’t see Honda, Toyota or any other auto company asking for handouts. If the entire auto industry is in so much trouble, how are these other companies surviving. I don’t see how the dems can’t see that this is basic economics here. [/quote]

And what a majority of people don’t realize is these cars are actually assembled at plants in the southern US.

28

I was listening to Limbaugh the other day, and he said that instead of throwing money at the big three, Congress should use that money and just buy 15 billion worth of cars from them instead.

I just thought that was a great idea.

29

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
I was listening to Limbaugh the other day, and he said that instead of throwing money at the big three, Congress should use that money and just buy 15 billion worth of cars from them instead.

I just thought that was a great idea.[/quote]

Actually if you look at the first post in this thread, I suggested that they all just give us a check so that we can buy an American car. Why not? Just give us 15K or so in a check that can only be used to buy a car from the big 3; this would enable us to all buy a car that is good on gas, and if you wanted anything beyond this, then you would have to come up with the $$$ yourself.

30

[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
I was listening to Limbaugh the other day, and he said that instead of throwing money at the big three, Congress should use that money and just buy 15 billion worth of cars from them instead.

I just thought that was a great idea.

Actually if you look at the first post in this thread, I suggested that they all just give us a check so that we can buy an American car. Why not? Just give us 15K or so in a check that can only be used to buy a car from the big 3; this would enable us to all buy a car that is good on gas, and if you wanted anything beyond this, then you would have to come up with the $$$ yourself.
[/quote]

Here’s an idea. How bout if they just didn’t take our money to begin with?

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Here’s an idea. How bout if they just didn’t take our money to begin with?[/quote]

I agree, but if they are at least going to take our money and give it to the big 3, why don’t we at least get a new car out of the deal?

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[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:

Here’s an idea. How bout if they just didn’t take our money to begin with?

I agree, but if they are at least going to take our money and give it to the big 3, why don’t we at least get a new car out of the deal?

[/quote]

Because after that you will have to bail out Toyota?

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Its a payoff to the UAW.

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[quote]orion wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:

Here’s an idea. How bout if they just didn’t take our money to begin with?

I agree, but if they are at least going to take our money and give it to the big 3, why don’t we at least get a new car out of the deal?

Because after that you will have to bail out Toyota?

[/quote]

Nah, that’s a job for the Japanese.

35

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
orion wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:

Here’s an idea. How bout if they just didn’t take our money to begin with?

I agree, but if they are at least going to take our money and give it to the big 3, why don’t we at least get a new car out of the deal?

Because after that you will have to bail out Toyota?

Nah, that’s a job for the Japanese. [/quote]

the toyota that builds cars in America?