[quote]pittbulll wrote:
If they did not want to pay an extra dollar they would have to wash their own car, I personally do not buy the lowest priced objects very often. Usually you get what you pay for.
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The whole point of the market is that it is beneficial to the consumers. By mandating minimum wage laws what one is essentially doing is guaranteeing only the more well to do consumers actually get services. You price marginal business out of the market and only high end services will exist.
Most people depend on a job for their livelihood. Many, in fact start out at a low wage and move up to higher rates only after they have been employed for a while. Some entry level work is not productive and not worth higher pay so it disemploys people on the margins. Some still must work multiple jobs and that will never change; however, if there were no barriers to entry into the market with minimum wage laws then there would be MORE service and they would be cheaper too. People working low wage jobs would be able to afford more stuff even though they are marginally productive and make low pay.
Minimum wage laws have the opposite of the intended effect of raising living standards.
You call me naive but I call me young of spirit. It is, in fact, the young of spirit with the capacity for change…and it is them only that understand the concept of independence.
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You call me naive but I call me young of spirit. It is, in fact, the young of spirit with the capacity for change…and it is them only that understand the concept of independence.
You’ve spent WAY too much time listening to Obama
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Ha ha! Is that supposed to be an insult? No, in fact, Obama is quite the opposite of what I propose and for that matter so is McCain.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
If they did not want to pay an extra dollar they would have to wash their own car, I personally do not buy the lowest priced objects very often. Usually you get what you pay for.
The whole point of the market is that it is beneficial to the consumers. By mandating minimum wage laws what one is essentially doing is guaranteeing only the more well to do consumers actually get services. You price marginal business out of the market and only high end services will exist.
Why you have to guarantee a minimum wage is because some people have to depend on their jobs to live, and most other markets are not alive so they have no requirements that a person would have
One of the difference between you and I are what we consider logic.
Most people depend on a job for their livelihood. Many, in fact start out at a low wage and move up to higher rates only after they have been employed for a while. Some entry level work is not productive and not worth higher pay so it disemploys people on the margins. Some still must work multiple jobs and that will never change; however, if there were no barriers to entry into the market with minimum wage laws then there would be MORE service and they would be cheaper too. People working low wage jobs would be able to afford more stuff even though they are marginally productive and make low pay.
Minimum wage laws have the opposite of the intended effect of raising living standards.[/quote]
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
If they did not want to pay an extra dollar they would have to wash their own car, I personally do not buy the lowest priced objects very often. Usually you get what you pay for.
The whole point of the market is that it is beneficial to the consumers. By mandating minimum wage laws what one is essentially doing is guaranteeing only the more well to do consumers actually get services. You price marginal business out of the market and only high end services will exist.
Why you have to guarantee a minimum wage is because some people have to depend on their jobs to live, and most other markets are not alive so they have no requirements that a person would have
One of the difference between you and I are what we consider logic.
Most people depend on a job for their livelihood. Many, in fact start out at a low wage and move up to higher rates only after they have been employed for a while. Some entry level work is not productive and not worth higher pay so it disemploys people on the margins. Some still must work multiple jobs and that will never change; however, if there were no barriers to entry into the market with minimum wage laws then there would be MORE service and they would be cheaper too. People working low wage jobs would be able to afford more stuff even though they are marginally productive and make low pay.
Minimum wage laws have the opposite of the intended effect of raising living standards.[/quote]
Your whole theory about some one moving out of an entry level position to a grander one ,is assuming the person has the ability or drive to do so, which many do not.
I would be willing to bet the car wash is not only making one hell of a profit, they are probably evading taxes as well. Car washes are big cash businesses; they used to be notorious for the Mob to lauder money. Even if they were running such a close profit margin, I would be willing to bet they could squeeze an extra dollar out of the market to pay their help better.
You are stating your theory as fact again; my theory is minimum wage has little effect on any body�??s profit margin or their cost of living. Right now we are seeing record inflation (at least by my definition) and people are spending their money all the same. Big corporations are posting record profits
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Break the law and try to stay in business
Well to be fair the law that was broken isn’t a crime – it is a malum prohibitum.
The consequence of enforcing this minimum wage law is disemployment and a shortage of car washes.
No problem. There is no need for car washes anyway, right?[/quote]
Man you are a jackass. Have you ever even tried to live on $10 an hour? Its fucking impossible to live WEll on that. anyway if you feel different move to hati or someplace where there is no min wage.
All you jackass right libertarians need to read this What's wrong with libertarianism if it can help just one of you overcome your fixed delusions it has done its job.
[quote]mharmar wrote:
All you jackass right libertarians need to read this What's wrong with libertarianism if it can help just one of you overcome your fixed delusions it has done its job.[/quote]
this is complete and absolute garbage. There is not one decent argument on this entire page. I assume this is your only research into Libertarianism? Have you read Locke, Hume, Jefferson, Smith, Hayek, Von Mises, Friedman, Rothbard, Murray, Haslett? Maybe you should and then see what you think of the review you posted.
[quote]1porsche wrote:
Man you are a jackass. Have you ever even tried to live on $10 an hour? Its fucking impossible to live WEll on that. anyway if you feel different move to hati or someplace where there is no min wage.
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Yes, as a matter of fact I have worked minimum wage and jobs not much greater than that. No one is supposed to live on minimum wage; these are the people that should be pooling resources.
Why should employees pay someone greater than what their productivity is worth? Also you must understand that if minimum wage were done away with there would be more employment, more productivity, and cheaper goods an services; those people working low wage jobs would be better off with cheaper goods and services.
You cannot compare Hati to some place like the US that has a skilled work force and a respect for property (although not that much of a respect).
Hamilton’s First Bank of the US was modeled on Adam Smith’s central bank concepts, not free banking. Adam Smith felt it was the governments job to provide free universal education for all. He also favored revenue and retaliatory tariffs and a progressive system of taxation. Murray Rothbard would not approve.
Read “Thomas Jefferson and Civil Liberties: The Darker Side” by Levy and “The Myth of laissez-fare in the Early Republic” by Bourgin. Jefferson was a libertarian in words, not action. Murray Rothbard would not approve.
You can’t put these people under the same umbrella. Von Mises considered Milton Friedman a socialist, at least according to Friedman.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It isn’t slavery. People don’t have to work there. I suspect they get big tips and would much rather work at the car wash than a minimum wage job.[/quote]
People forget wait staff, too. It is legal to pay wait-staff below minimum wage because they get tips. And tipping is the most free market thing there is.
[quote]Jack_Dempsey wrote:
You can’t put these people under the same umbrella. Von Mises considered Milton Friedman a socialist, at least according to Friedman.[/quote]
Politically, certainly not but they were all proponents of liberalism in that they believed in the idea of liberty even if they didn’t all have the same ideas how to bring it about.
Well if you want to startup a carwash and pay your employees more than their market value you are free to do so. Good luck staying in business.
Break the law and try to stay in business
It isn’t slavery. People don’t have to work there. I suspect they get big tips and would much rather work at the car wash than a minimum wage job.[/quote]
It is your supply and demand thing again; too much labor means too much pressure on wages. If there was no illegal immigrants there would be no such problem
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It is your supply and demand thing again; too much labor means too much pressure on wages. If there was no illegal immigrants there would be no such problem
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This is just plain wrong. The market will figure out how much labor is needed in all circumstances. It is precisely the wage rates (prices) that do this. Artificial wage rates – minimum wage laws – will mean the level of employment is not at an optimum level.
In general it is the employment rate that determines productivity. Higher employment means more productivity which means lower prices on goods and services.
Immigration only happens because there are jobs available. This can be remedied one of two ways: 1) destroy the economy so that these jobs no longer exist or 2) get rid of the incentives that create willing unemployment – that is, welfare and minimum wage laws.