Hello mate,
Not sure if I missed sth but did you manage to get a script for t injections?
Hi mate - no I did not, its self prescribed. Even if I had you would need a letter from god to be able to inject yourself and split the doses up.
Some are hyper metabolizers of T. Or the T is not the concentration that you think that it is.
What day did you test on?
Neural transmitters: One has to make an educated guess and try some brain meds and see what does what for you.
If you are using anastrozole and increase T=100–>150 mg/week, you need to increase AI dose in proportion to simply tread water.
PCT sometimes works in a TRT context if it is secondary hypogonadism and FSH/LH are low.
Have had confirmation of bloods through and have attached them.
I inject on a Tuesday and Saturday. Bloods were done on a Monday so was expecting it to be a slight trough, just not that low.
Have upped it to 125mg per week divided into 2 shots.
I think you are right with the neurotransmitters, going to try and approach the GP about buporion / Wellbutrin trial next week.
Still feeling absolutely dreadful and am off work, pretty sure low T is not the primary cause of problems now.
Think I will give it another 3 -4 weeks on the slightly increased dose and if no change then look to transition off with HCG, Clomid and DAA.
My Estrogen has also risen from 20 before hopping on TRT to 94.
Ok so as an update.
Felt no benefits from the Testosterone and had my levels re-checked, they were at 23.5 or 680. Libido was unchanged. (See the bottom of the post for a little study I performed)
Transitioned off it onto HCG 1500iu EOD + 1mg Arimidex for the last couple of weeks along with TOCO 8 (Vit E supp) & Dopa Mucuna (15% L-Dopa)
Finished the HCG and in the first week of DAA and Torem which I’m running at 3g and 120/90/60/30 respectively. Adex dropped to 1/2mg Mon / Thurs.
Testicle size doesn’t seem to have grown much - maybe a little. Have felt some hints of libido when on the HCG.
Symptoms remain pretty much unchanged with eyes being the most pressing. Physical energy is not as bad as it was but mental acuity is terrible compared to what it was - memory especially poor and ‘brain fog’ quite apparent.
Last week I saw an opthamologist regarding my photophobic / dry eyes / floaters and he suggested a diagnosis of blepharitis but couldn’t suggesta cause. He has suggested bathing them morning and night which I am trying. Doesn’t seem like a particularly accurate diagnosis however…
I have also had the results of two more tests back - urinary heavy metals and leaky gut testing.
My gut is ok and the heavy metal I was suspecting - lead (in a way hoping - by way of an answer) is within the reference range.
The only toxic elements outside the reference range are:
Thallium: 0.468 (<=0.273)
Gadolinium 0.027 (<=0.019)
Cesium 10.89 (<=10.10)
Rubidium 2,674 (<= 2,486)
I’m not sure how pressing they are or if they could even affect my symptoms.
My sulfur levels are now consistently down to around 400 mg/L and I have been following the methylation protocol as laid out. No positive changes to report so far really.
I have continued to try and add 120 - 130 bpm cardio in on a stationary bike, sometimes with a sweatsuit, and don’t feel any worse for doing it. In fact quite the opposite, I feel better after doing it and don’t seem to encounter any delayed fatigue as a result.
I would also note that over the Xmas period I spent more time with friends and, having not drank for 8 months, allowed myself several drinks on one or two nights. I felt much better during - sharper, more like my old self and didn’t suffer any ill effects other than the usual foggy head in the morning - I definitely noticed libido upon waking. The rest of my symptoms were no better or worse for having a few drinks.
I definitely think that a dopamine / noepineiphrine problem has something to do with my symptoms.
Un-related but interesting study:
A few of my close friends who have seen how much I’ve been struggling and know a lot of the ins and outs of it decided to get their T levels checked with me. It has definitely re-inforced one and for all that people shouldn’t wholly chase numbers when it comes to Testosterone.
Its obviously not scientific but we all had blood drawn at roughly the same time in the AM and had all been to bed at a normal time the night before with no alcohol consumed. None of them have used AAS before and none of them have had T levels checked. We are all mid twenties.
Friend 1: Rugby player - heavily muscled, not that lean but very strong , drinks a fair bit. Single but gets through a lot of women - self reported libido is very high. T level - 16 (464)
Friend 2: Non - exerciser and pretty weak in general, average build, verging on overweight, in a long term relationship. Libido is so - so but no problems. Very confident demeanour. T level - 23 (667)
Friend 3: Gym goer - lean and fit with a good amount of muscle. Eats well etc Reported libido very high and have shared a flat with him so can attest to this. T level - 12 (350)
Obviously non of the above is scientific and I am relying on their reported information but I thought it was interesting neverthless.
Update -
I’m in week 3 of my SERMs of Toremifine Citrate @ 60mg and Clomid at 25mg BID. Prior to that I did 8 shots of 1500iu of HCG spread over 2 weeks with 1mg Adex on the day of the shots. I’ve also been taking 3g DAA and a serving of TOCO 8 (Vit E Supplement) each day.
Just had bloods back drawn 7 days ago:
FSH 10.6 (2.0 - 14)
LH 11.4 (2.0 - 14)
Oestradiol <50 (28 - 156)
SHBG 28 nmol/l (15-47)
Testosterone 13.5 nmol/l (392 US units) (Was 14.4 back in Nov prior to trying TRT)
Prolactin 136 (86 - 324)
Progesterone 2.6 (0.95 - 3.82)
Vitamin D 169 nmol/l (>75) (Checking the web optimal is 150 - 180)
TSH 1.9 (0.2 - 5.0)
FT4 17.0 (9.0 - 24)
LDL Cholesterole 1.83 mmol/l (0 - 2.0)
HDL 1.5 No range mmol/l
Cholesterol 3.7 mmol/l (0 - 4)
Chol / HDL ratio 2.47
Albumin 44 g/l (34 - 48)
Sodium 143 (133 - 146)
Potassium 4.0 (3.5 - 5.5)
So it looks like I’m recovered back to where I was prior to the trial of Testosterone replacement which is a relief. I’ll continue to run it for the remainder of the planned 4 weeks.
One good piece of news is my Vitamin D, which was 83nmol/l back in Nov 11 then 74 nmol/l when checked is April 2012 is now well into the optimal range. I have been supplementing with 5000iu for around 18 months now so can only conclude that my body is now absorbing it and fats in general more efficiently now. I think my cholesterol numbers would support this as well.
I have also tapered up to 5000mcg of B12 and 3000mcg of 5-Methlfolate; supplements to support the methylation cycle. Having felt no discernible difference I have dropped back to 1000mcg of each.
I am still off work. My GP, while supporting, cannot prescribe Wellbutrin in the UK, not even off label, so any hopes of a trial of that are out of the window. I broached the topic of a trial of an SNRI (Effexor of Cymbalta) but while willing to try in the future, he does not thinking I present as particularly depressed.
I have now got an appointment to see the ENT specialist again regarding my sinuses in February. When I last saw him he suggested I may need Septoplasty, SMD and Outfracture of the turbinates. My GP and I are both keen for me to have this done on the off chance that it improves my eyes and energy levels in general.
Symptom wise I am pretty much unchanged in terms of tiredness, visual problems, concentration and libido. Psychologically I would say I am better than where I was before Christmas. Getting out with my friends and having a few drinks for the first time in a long time has definitely helped that, but unfortunately it has not changed the rest. Still, important to keep track of the positives.
I have also been able to do some light exercise. Checking my heart rate the morning after with the orthostatic test, I am recovering fine from it. Definitely not ‘overtrained’ in the classic sense any more. Have lifted some light weights and also tried hot yoga (not really light!) which I enjoyed and had some interesting benefits as well. I felt immeasurably better when I had finished and for the couple of hours afterwards. On checking my body temperature it was around 98.6 whereas at most other times the highest it gets is 97.7.
This brings me back to the concept of Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome:
-I’ve got the thyroid symptoms - dry eyes, dry brittle hair (changed from thick and full), cold extremeties, low normal serum T, no libido, brain fog and low body temp but obviously my FT3, FT4, Rt3 are ok
-I’ve got the perfect history - chronic dieting / overtraining with stressful period and noticeable crash
-I now know one or two professionals personally who have people who have sorted themselves through it, coming from similar backgrounds.
-I’ve excluded so much else and WTS is definitely a diagnosis of exclusion.
I have managed to find a UK GP who treats this now, based on Harley Street, and am hoping to get enough money together to be able to see him. I have enough Cytomel to try it myself but would be unsure and better to defer to a Dr. It would seemingly also be the first time a qualified doctor in the UK has actually had a clue what may be wrong.
If anyone has any experience of people undergoing WTS therapy I would appreciate experiences.
As an update. I’ve tapered up to 50mcg of T3 taken at night and am now 10 days into it. I’ve also added 12.5mcg of iodine.
My basal underarm temperature is still 97.1 and hasn’t really budged despite the T3. Symptom wise I haven’t felt any worse or better. Noteably I haven’t experienced any classically low cortisol symptoms which is good.
Again though on Saturday, similar to last weekend, I had a large amount of food and this time also had some alcohol as well. Didn’t do basal temperature on the Sunday but by the afternoon it had got to 98.6 and by the evening was 99. I didn’t feel hyper at all and, despite feeling hungover, felt great. Sharper mind, noticeable libido, eyes not so dry.
So is it the large calorie surplus or is it the alcohol, or a mixture of both that drives my temperature up?
Today I had a little N1 experiment.
Basal temperature - 97.1
4.20pm temperature - 98.0
4.30pm 1 25ml measure of Johnny Walker whiskey
5.00pm temperature 98.5
Everything I have read in the literature suggests that alcohol depresses body temperature. This would seem to suggest otherwise.
Just been reading your story and it seems as though I have or at least had similar symptoms to you. I’m 22 Y/O and have just been diagnosed with having mercury poisoning from eating 1-2 tins of tuna a day since I was 10 or something. I didn’t really get any blood work done, as I sort’ve suspected I might have given myself this condition, so went straight for the hair test for mercury and it came back positive, so I can’t say whether your blood work matches mine or not. The only test I have had done back in October was a measurement of my free testosterone, which came back as 59pg/ml (50pg/ml - 200pg/ml), which is kind’ve similar to your results I guess. I suffered from low libido, lack of morning erections, brain fog, insomia, depression and a little social anxiety. Anyway, I’ve been cycling this stuff called DMSA, which binds to the mercury in your body and my symptoms have started to disappear.
Have you considered this as a possible cause for your problems? Too much mercury in the system has a similar effect as having too much iron- It basically disrupts the pituitary gland, causing a drop in testosterone. Apparently around 1 in 10 of us are naturally bad at getting rid of mercury, so as little as 2 tins of tuna a week can cause a slow build up of mercury in the system and start to mess you up 5 or 6 years down the line.
Keep us posted anyway and good luck man.
Does anyone know how to contact the original poster? Was the cause ever found? I have exactly the same problem and spent 6 hours trying to summon the energy today to write this post. I feel like I am slowly dying and am desperate for help.
Please, any information at all. Thank you!