Yes, two weeks at 50mg per day.
the meeting with the andrologist did not go well today at all.
My ultrasound came back clear and there is no testicular abnormalities which is some small relief.
That is where the good news ends though. He is unwilling to prescribe testosterone as I am within range. Apparently if I was below 10 nmol/l I would get the treatment. I argued with him till I was blue in the face and pretty upset, about normal ranges for age groups as well as suggesting he treat the symptoms not a number on a piece of paper but he wasn’t listening.
I asked about cortisol being low and he gave me the same bs about ranges.
Have been discharged back to my endocrinologist and do not know what to do next.
The Uk is not a good place to be for this kind of stuff.
Brah, you also gotta write down a plan of what your gonna do regarding diet and training.
Are you gonna be starving and overtraining again lol?
Thats just gonna drop you off the deep end further brah. Look after yourself and treat the cause vs the symptoms.
Cheers for the advice but I haven’t been able to exercise at all for almost 4 months now so in no danger of overtraining. My diet is high calorie and plenty of all macros and has been for months.
I’ve rested and eaten well for months now, along with appropriate Vit C, D3, B5, Zinc & Magnesium and Omega 3 supplementation but nothing has helped, I don’t think it is going to be a case of the body getting better on its own here.
But yes, if I am every able to get back to my beloved training I will have seriously learnt from my mistake.
[quote]ockey wrote:
the meeting with the andrologist did not go well today at all.
My ultrasound came back clear and there is no testicular abnormalities which is some small relief.
That is where the good news ends though. He is unwilling to prescribe testosterone as I am within range. Apparently if I was below 10 nmol/l I would get the treatment. I argued with him till I was blue in the face and pretty upset, about normal ranges for age groups as well as suggesting he treat the symptoms not a number on a piece of paper but he wasn’t listening.
I asked about cortisol being low and he gave me the same bs about ranges.
Have been discharged back to my endocrinologist and do not know what to do next.
The Uk is not a good place to be for this kind of stuff.[/quote]
Sounds like my Endo… i dont suppose you live in Leeds?
No mate, I’m from Liverpool though so not far away. Are you having issues with NHS treatment too?
In fairness my endoocrinologist has been good to me so far, he is young and seems interested in the whole thing. Without naming any names, the andrologist is one of the leading ones in the UK but only interested in my fertility, not how I function at that level of T it would seem.
I had the ACTH stimulation test today and strangely, after the initial soreness of the shot into my leg, I began to feel pretty good; within 10 minutes I felt much more ‘with it’ and although I was sitting in the chair I felt like I had much more energy and felt much better in general.
This may have just been a placebo but I don’t think it was. It has since worn off and I am back to usual, but it was interesting.
I will be receiving the results of the test on Friday when I will see not only my endocrinologist but also the head of the department for a second opinion.
Are there other worthwhile things to get them to test or suggestions to put to them? 24 hr urinary cortisol? Or perhaps other blood tests that I have yet to have such as pregnelone, B12, Ferritin ?
I have had to wait 6 weeks for this appointment so want to make sure I get it right.
(Just as a remidner they have already done the following: MRI’d pituitary, GNRH stimulation test, Ultrasound of testes. I have had a lot of bloodwork done as suggested by JanSz, results earlier in thread. Still waiting on the results of DHEAS, Androiestione(SP?), and Vit D)
[quote]ockey wrote:
No mate, I’m from Liverpool though so not far away. Are you having issues with NHS treatment too?
In fairness my endoocrinologist has been good to me so far, he is young and seems interested in the whole thing. Without naming any names, the andrologist is one of the leading ones in the UK but only interested in my fertility, not how I function at that level of T it would seem.[/quote]
Yes my Endo was just like yours - he wouldn’t listen to my reasoning that my testosterone is low for my age. My testosterone is 16.4 (with 149 estrogen - HIGH!) so its higher than yours but i believe i have an underactive thyroid which is causing the unbalance of sex hormones, this could be the case with you, thats why you need to post your thyroid results.
I am now seeing a proffesor in andrology and he also believes my testosterone is fine…
Also i myself have had that injection where you have to sit down for 15 minutes then get your blood tested and i couldn’t believe how much it woke me up, its not placebo ;).
My thyroid results are WITHIN RANGE, but T4 and T3 need to be in the upper 3rd of the range and mine are in the bottom 3rd - yours could be too! so find out them results ASAP.
Sounds like we are going through similar things.
My thyroid results are as follows:
Free T3 5.0pmol/l (2.5 - 6.5)
Free T4 16.6 pmol/l (8.0 - 21.0)
TSH 1.44 mu/L (0.4 - 4.5)
Think that they look OK, but I haven’t had my Reverse T3 or Thyroid antibodies checked. (I believe you need them checking to rule out Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis)
Interestingly my mother and grandfather are both hypothyroid.
There is a Dr in the UK called Dr Barry Peatfield who suggests that you don’t have one without the other. ie. anyone with a degree of hypothyroidism will have some adrenal issue and vice versa.
This is a chapter from his book:
http://featherstone.bravehost.com/thyroid/peatfieldadrenal.html
as an update, I received the results from my ACTH stimulation test; 30 minutes following the injection my cortisol had risen to 740 nmol/l on a scale of 0-700 so my endocrinologist ruled out full blown Addison?s disease or adrenal insufficiency, in fact she said my response was very good.
I did a Zinc tally test and am not deficient.
I did an Adrenal Stress Index (saliva) on Monday and will receive the results of that within 10 days from Genova Diagnostics.
I received 3 further blood results back which I had been waiting on:
25 OH Vitamin D3 83.7mol/l (<75 = adequate)
Androsterone 2.4nmol/l (1.0 ? 8.50nmol/l)
DHEAS 9.4umol/l (0.00 ? 12.00 umol/l)
The DHEAS surprised me as I has thought that it would be low if I was suffering from adrenal fatigue / low testosterone? Is saliva or serum a better measure of DHEAS?
My endocrinologist wanted to discharge me as in her mind my testosterone is ?within range?, even though I made the argument it was very low for my age group. She stated that the andropause had not been proven and the idea that testosterone declines with age is just a theory :roll: She also thought that my AM cortisol draw (listed above) was not low. I suppose I may be better off away from someone with that kind of knowledge / opinion.
I managed to convince her to run one final blood test and I am waiting on the results of:
Vitamin B12
Ferritin
Lead
Mercury
Thyroid Antibodies
Aldosterone
Progesterone
Now that I have had the adrenals tests without any specific supplmentation, I have commenced on
Nutri Adrenal Extra
Each tablet typically provides:
Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid)
Vitamin B1 (Thiamin HCl)
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)
Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide)
Vitamin B5 (d-calcium Pantothenate)
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCl)
Magnesium (Citrate)
Zinc (Ascorbate)
Chromium Picotinate
Bioflavonoids
Choline Bitartrate
Adrenal tissue concentrate
Pituitary tissue concentrate
and
Southland Performance Revamp
Pantothenic Acid
Rhodiola Rosea extract (3% rosavins), Schizandra, Licorice
Bovine Adrenal Extract, Pregnenolone
Can anyone suggest anything based on the new bloods or any of the other new information?? Has anyone had good success with glandulars or the Revamp complex? (Which I believe used to be a product called Reset AD)
[quote]ockey wrote:
My endocrinologist wanted to discharge me as in her mind my testosterone is ?within range?, even though I made the argument it was very low for my age group. She stated that the andropause had not been proven and the idea that testosterone declines with age is just a theory :roll: She also thought that my AM cortisol draw (listed above) was not low. I suppose I may be better off away from someone with that kind of knowledge / opinion.
[/quote]
Wow.
How do these people get their jobs?
Believe me I have no idea. Those comments were not even from a jr endo, but a head of department. I am now trying to decide who the best person to pay privately to see is.
I am thinking either Dr B Peatfield or if I can afford it then Matt Lovell, the head nutritonist for England Rugby. He has written this paper on adrenal fatigue / overtraining which some of you might find interesting:
My Adrenal Stress Index results are just back in today, can anyone comment on them?
Sample1: 17.9 nmol/l (12-22)
Sample2: 5.3 nmol/l (5-9)
Sample3: 3.4nmol/l (3-7)
Sample4: 0.5nmol/l (1-3)
DHEA Mean: 0.87 nmol/l (0.40 - 1.47)
DHEA : Cortisol Ratio: 3.21 (2-6)
I am wondering which came first so to speak. Has low testosterone stressed out my adrenal glands or has adrenal fatigue caused the low T? Chicken or egg so to speak…
Thyroid results have arrived along with others:
Progesterone: 2nmol/l (1.2 - 5.3)
Ab to Thyroid peroxidase 4 IU/ML (0-80)
Ab to Thyroglobulin 9 IU/ML (0-80)
Vitamin B12 1234 ng/L (211-911)
I think the low level of progesterone supports the idea of pregnenolone steal; that my body is prefering to make cortisol over testosterone still.
hey there,
your cortisol results look pretty good if a tad low later in the day.
the other tests don’t really tell that much except that you have great B12 levels. RT3 and ferritin values could be helpful.
I know it was annoying I asked for ferritin but the lab messed up the sample and couldn’t test it.
Given you knowledge / history of RT3 do you think my adrenals look strong enough to handle the T3 clearance protocol?
I have read that adding T3 uses up cortisol and if you are too low in it then it won’t work / you will crash badly.
no idea. have you read the information on the site thyroid-rt3.com?
you can always get some OTC IsoCort - each pill is equivalent to 2.5mg HC or so they say) - and keep that on hand in case you start crashing.
Thanks yeah I have read the site- my temps seem stable but I will take pregnenolone and liquourice for a few weeks to try and boost my cortisol before any potential T3 meds.
Isocort could be a good idea though thanks
Had some new blood labs back and the Pregnenolone I have been taking seems to be slowly increasing Testosterone and morning cortisol
Free Testosterone .274 nmol/l (0.02 - 0.67NMOL/L)
Albumin 53g/L (35 - 50g/l)
SHBG 30nmol/l (13 - 71)
Total Testosterone 14.3 nmol/l (8.50 - 29.0)
Prolactin 238 miu/L (0-350)
FT4 19.4 pmol/l (8 - 21pmol/l)
FT3 4.8pmol/l (2.50 - 6.50pmol/l)
RT3 0.46 pmol/ml (0.14 - 0.54)
TSH 1.74 mu/L (0.4 - 4.5)
E2 69pmol/l
AM cortisol 533nmol/l
CRP <1mg/l (0-10)
Fasting glucose 4.1nmol/l (3-6)
Ferritin 203 ug/L (30 - 330)
B12 1234 ng/L (211 - 911)
T Peroxidase 4 IU/ML (0-80)
Ab Thyroiglobulin 9 IU/ML (0-80)
which as a Rt3 ratio to my FT3 is 10 when ideally it should be 20 or more right?
Have added in 400mcg of Selenium per day and will see if this in conjunction with the Pregnenolone lowers it and continues to bring my average temperature up over the next 2-3 weeks. (Current average temp 36.3C)
If not then I will be starting a T3 + Preg protocol.
B12 and Ferritin seem OK.
Anyone got any comments on those bloods or the course of action?
Thanks
yes. RT3 seems high.
Iodine supplementation (mcg doses have no real impact imo) along with Selenium can also help (for some), but can also raise TSH.
preg should be helping support your cortisol which should help lower your RT3 as well.
how are you dosing the Preg? twice daily? pill form, transdermal cream, etc.?