[quote]landslide wrote:
Got some liver function test results today. Seems there’s a problem with my liver too. Anyone care to chime in? Unfortunately, I don’t have all the ranges this time becuase the retarded doc didn’t send me the actual results, only his own notes from the medical journal. Idiot…
I am not an expert in liver function but I do know some liver markers can be off if you lift within a day or two of your test. Did you train close to your blood draw?
I had an abdomen ultrasound today which didn’t show any abnormalities apparently. One of the docs I’m seeing ordered the ultrasound since some of the liver values were off. These are just the preliminary results but it feels good to know at least for now that there is no visible damage to the liver, spleen, adrenals etc.
Next week I’m having a thyroid ultrasound and in two weeks I’m having a brain MRI. I’ve already had a brain MRI done in 2004 which didn’t show any abornmalities, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to have one done now.
Landslide you and I seem to have a lot of the same issues [low testosterone] and same profile (my thyroid seems to be a little worse off than yours though). I was taking kelp+potassium iodide (10-12mg a day) and my temperature rose and I felt better mentally but my thyroid labs actually got worse…the holistic community says I need to increase my intake but I already gained so much weight while doing the iodine and my hair was still falling out(but didn’t care as I felt better).
Anyway…do you have any symptoms (other than temperature) for hypothyroidism? Like do you feel depressed, does your hair fall out, do you gain weight easily and can’t lose fat, do you feel sluggish?
I just began taking Armour Thyroid (t4+t3) and I think I may have adrenal fatigue as well. I am also supplementing like crazy (which I will stop doing after these are done). Though I will not take cortisol or ask for it. I am hoping supplementing with iron will help with my thyroid and supporting my adrenals with vitamins but I refuse to take cortisol and especially refuse to take progesterone! (already have a problem with swollen nipples!) I also refused TRT from my doctor since I am only 21 and there are so many issues with TRT. But my testosterone rose nicely naturally from the lows but I am still ‘low’.
I’m definitely not depressed, moreso irritated and stressed but that’s from having to deal with the unbelievable incompetence amongst doctors. The symptoms of hypothyroidism I have are cold intolerance, dry skin in the winter and low body temps (as mentioned) but no hair falling out, no brittle nails, don’t gain weight easily (I’m quite lean actually). The biggest problem is that I start freezing in the middle of the day for no reason - hands and feet just suddenly go ice cold and I start shivering which is a really creepy feeling.
I’m thinking the same way as you in regards to hydrocortisone - there’s now way I’m taking that unless I find out I truly have adrenal gland failure like Addison’s. “Adrenal fatigue” is a pretty controversial concept and I’d be very apprehensive about possibly exacerbating the situation by taking a steroid supplement without knowing the root cause.
On a sidenote, even though there’s no indication at the moment that I have any kind of autoimmune illness (Hashimoto’s, diabetes, celiac were all negative), I’m still going to try out a gluten-free diet for six months since my brother has Celiac disease. The latest research shows gluten sensitivity has a pretty wide spectrum and a genetic predisposition obviously increases the likelihood of having some kind of gluten sensitivity. So if I’m “lucky”, gluten sensitivity could be one possible root cause, who knows…
[quote]landslide wrote:
I’m definitely not depressed, moreso irritated and stressed but that’s from having to deal with the unbelievable incompetence amongst doctors. The symptoms of hypothyroidism I have are cold intolerance, dry skin in the winter and low body temps (as mentioned) but no hair falling out, no brittle nails, don’t gain weight easily (I’m quite lean actually). The biggest problem is that I start freezing in the middle of the day for no reason - hands and feet just suddenly go ice cold and I start shivering which is a really creepy feeling.
[/quote]
If I was just feeling cold then I wouldn’t even bother. For me the weight and hair falling out is what prompted me to getting on meds as well as depression and lack of energy (though that was helped already before taking meds). The point is…if you aren’t having a whole lot of symptoms of hypothyroidism and your thyroid labs aren’t ‘too bad’ then I would focus on the testosterone and how to bring that up rather than focus on the thyroid because even if you went on meds would your life be improved much? Maybe you would feel warmer a little but is it worth it especially since your thyroid seems only slightly sluggish? You have a REAL problem with testosterone…not a REAL problem with hypothyroidism (esp. with lack of symptoms). And yes…the less hormones taken in like cortisol, testosterone, etc. the better for me.
I see your point, but the coldness during the day and the cold intolerance are pretty debilitating symptoms for me. It’s a good thing it’s summertime now because when winter comes it’s difficult for me to even be outside - my hands go numb straight away and I almost faint from cold intolerance. It’s crazy and it hasn’t always been like this - I used to love being outside during the winter, so it’s obviously the onset of some kind condition.
Either way, whether it’s hypothyroidism causing low testosterone or vice versa, or some other mechanism, my hope right now is, as mentioned, a gluten-free diet since I’ve read several studies linking hormonal issues to gluten sensitivity. If I’m “lucky”, gluten sensitivity is my root cause (although unlikely) and I feel it’s worth a shot since I’m not going on TRT (treatment over here is a joke) and I refuse to take any thyroid meds.
As for your problem - has anyone even tried to figure out why a 21 year old male has thyroid issues? Being in a somewhat similar situation as yourself, I’m constantly shocked at the lack of curiosity among doctors as to what the root cause could be of these problems. Hypothyroidism is most common among middle-aged women so you’d think that would raise some eyebrows in the medical community, but no…
[quote]landslide wrote:
I see your point, but the coldness during the day and the cold intolerance are pretty debilitating symptoms for me. It’s a good thing it’s summertime now because when winter comes it’s difficult for me to even be outside - my hands go numb straight away and I almost faint from cold intolerance. It’s crazy and it hasn’t always been like this - I used to love being outside during the winter, so it’s obviously the onset of some kind condition.
Either way, whether it’s hypothyroidism causing low testosterone or vice versa, or some other mechanism, my hope right now is, as mentioned, a gluten-free diet since I’ve read several studies linking hormonal issues to gluten sensitivity. If I’m “lucky”, gluten sensitivity is my root cause (although unlikely) and I feel it’s worth a shot since I’m not going on TRT (treatment over here is a joke) and I refuse to take any thyroid meds.
As for your problem - has anyone even tried to figure out why a 21 year old male has thyroid issues? Being in a somewhat similar situation as yourself, I’m constantly shocked at the lack of curiosity among doctors as to what the root cause could be of these problems. Hypothyroidism is most common among middle-aged women so you’d think that would raise some eyebrows in the medical community, but no…[/quote]
Could be estrogen issues? A lot of men with hypothyroidism seem to suffer from low testosterone as well so perhaps estrogen is causing issues in our body and influencing the thyroid in a negative way (which is a theory on why women get it more than men)…I never got my estrogen checked but I should.
As a fellow Scandinavian with thyroid issues, I feel your pain concerning the medical community. I started seeing a doc who runs his own private practice, focusing mostly on thyroid treatment. There can’t be more than him and maybe a couple of other docs who ever orders RT3 tests in Norway. lol
The general lack of knowledge among the MD’s comes from the fact that the thyroid is viewed as very simple to treat by the so called experts. I have an elevated TSH and, and very low T and high E. However, the doc’s “thyroid 101 sheet” that they all have, says that doesn’t mean a thing. So all I get is a call from some fat nurse who said my tests were all normal.
This guy I’m seeing now is into thyroid research. I’m sure he just sees me as a (lucrative) statistic, but at least he knows a thing or two about this shit.
[quote]Retinoid wrote:
Could be estrogen issues? A lot of men with hypothyroidism seem to suffer from low testosterone as well so perhaps estrogen is causing issues in our body and influencing the thyroid in a negative way (which is a theory on why women get it more than men)…I never got my estrogen checked but I should.[/quote]
Don’t think so. I’ve had estrogen levels checked twice and both times they were quite low (check lab results a few pages back if you want).
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
As a fellow Scandinavian with thyroid issues, I feel your pain concerning the medical community. I started seeing a doc who runs his own private practice, focusing mostly on thyroid treatment. There can’t be more than him and maybe a couple of other docs who ever orders RT3 tests in Norway. lol
The general lack of knowledge among the MD’s comes from the fact that the thyroid is viewed as very simple to treat by the so called experts. I have an elevated TSH and, and very low T and high E. However, the doc’s “thyroid 101 sheet” that they all have, says that doesn’t mean a thing. So all I get is a call from some fat nurse who said my tests were all normal.
This guy I’m seeing now is into thyroid research. I’m sure he just sees me as a (lucrative) statistic, but at least he knows a thing or two about this shit.
I found the guy on this site: Domain Unavailable!
Thanks for the tip, I’ll see what I can find on there. I know painfully well about the fat-nurse-problem, these clueless bitches are everywhere! Even worse is when the doctor doesn’t even bother to give you a phone call and you get sent a letter where it says “your tests were in range, you’re ok”. But I digress…
[quote]landslide wrote:
I refuse to take any thyroid meds.[/quote]
Why?
[quote]landslide wrote:
As for your problem - has anyone even tried to figure out why a 21 year old male has thyroid issues? Being in a somewhat similar situation as yourself, I’m constantly shocked at the lack of curiosity among doctors as to what the root cause could be of these problems. Hypothyroidism is most common among middle-aged women so you’d think that would raise some eyebrows in the medical community, but no…[/quote]
There are plenty of possible reasons… iodine deficiency, poor adrenals, etc. etc. Finding a doc who wants to get to the root of the problem instead of just prescribing synthroid is rare. I found one…most don’t from what I gather (given what I know from my family’s history of doctors and thyroid problems). I’m 26 and have similar (though not identical) thyroid issues.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Why?
[/quote]
Several reasons. First off, I’m not even sure it’s my thyroid that’s causing problems. The only indication so far is somewhat lowish fT3 and fT4 but no antibodies have been detected and the thyroid is not swollen nor shrunken. (I’ll know more once the ultrasound is done next week.)
Second, from looking at my results from the insulin tolerance test in 2004, it could just as well be a permanent adrenal problem. Then again, the abdomen ultrasound didn’t show any abnormalities… Hydrocortisone would be the most reasonable treatment from looking at test results, but I’m not ready to do that yet either. Need to investigate more.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
There are plenty of possible reasons… iodine deficiency, poor adrenals, etc. etc. Finding a doc who wants to get to the root of the problem instead of just prescribing synthroid is rare. I found one…most don’t from what I gather (given what I know from my family’s history of doctors and thyroid problems). I’m 26 and have similar (though not identical) thyroid issues.[/quote]
I see… It’s a shame that it’s so hard to find good doctors. I don’t realy understand why most are so unenthusiastic - it seems to be a world-wide problem. I hear these kinds of stories from people all over the world and it seems to be totally independent of what health care system is used. The system in Sweden, for instance, is the complete opposite of the one in the USA, but patients are affected the same way because of the general attitude in the medical community.
Several reasons. First off, I’m not even sure it’s my thyroid that’s causing problems. The only indication so far is somewhat lowish fT3 and fT4 but no antibodies have been detected and the thyroid is not swollen nor shrunken. (I’ll know more once the ultrasound is done next week.)
Second, from looking at my results from the insulin tolerance test in 2004, it could just as well be a permanent adrenal problem. Then again, the abdomen ultrasound didn’t show any abnormalities… Hydrocortisone would be the most reasonable treatment from looking at test results, but I’m not ready to do that yet either. Need to investigate more.
[/quote]
Your thyroid really isn’t in bad shape. It isn’t optimal for sure but with your lack of symptoms (minus intolerance to cold), I would say hypothyroidism isn’t causing any issues.
Are you a very hairy person? Is all your fat concentrated in your stomach and very little in your arms/legs (or vice versa)?
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Why?
[/quote]
Several reasons. First off, I’m not even sure it’s my thyroid that’s causing problems. The only indication so far is somewhat lowish fT3 and fT4 but no antibodies have been detected and the thyroid is not swollen nor shrunken. (I’ll know more once the ultrasound is done next week.)
Second, from looking at my results from the insulin tolerance test in 2004, it could just as well be a permanent adrenal problem. Then again, the abdomen ultrasound didn’t show any abnormalities… Hydrocortisone would be the most reasonable treatment from looking at test results, but I’m not ready to do that yet either. Need to investigate more.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
There are plenty of possible reasons… iodine deficiency, poor adrenals, etc. etc. Finding a doc who wants to get to the root of the problem instead of just prescribing synthroid is rare. I found one…most don’t from what I gather (given what I know from my family’s history of doctors and thyroid problems). I’m 26 and have similar (though not identical) thyroid issues.[/quote]
I see… It’s a shame that it’s so hard to find good doctors. I don’t realy understand why most are so unenthusiastic - it seems to be a world-wide problem. I hear these kinds of stories from people all over the world and it seems to be totally independent of what health care system is used. The system in Sweden, for instance, is the complete opposite of the one in the USA, but patients are affected the same way because of the general attitude in the medical community.[/quote]
OK so you’re not against the meds in general - you are just against taking them before you know what’s wrong. Got it (and agree)
To your 2nd question - because the more quickly they get you in and out, the more $ they make I guess. They care mostly about efficiency (get em in, get em out).
[quote]scj119 wrote:
OK so you’re not against the meds in general - you are just against taking them before you know what’s wrong. Got it (and agree)
To your 2nd question - because the more quickly they get you in and out, the more $ they make I guess. They care mostly about efficiency (get em in, get em out).
[/quote]
Absolutely, if I find out I have some kind of ailment of which there’s no way around other than medicating, I’ll definitely go for it. But as mentioned, I need to investigate more, which is why I’m keeping this thread alive - I’m pretty much confined to self-studies and getting input from people on different forums such as this since no doctor so far seems to be even remotely interested in my case.
Had an MRI with a contrast agent yesterday and everything was fine. Not that I was expecting anything else but it’s always nice to know my pituitary is ok.
I have a thyroid ultrasound tomorrow. I also asked my doc to schedule a testicle ultrasound as well - might as well cover all bases while I’m at it.
Had a thyroid ultrasound today which came back normal. I wonder if a biopsy is needed if the ultrasound didn’t show anything? I could get one if I want to, but there’s obviously a risk associated with it… Any advice?
Did you ever hear back when you posted on the Addison’s forum about your cortisol? I’m thinking your problem(s) are adrenals/liver related.
Cortisol - you have been low on every test (I believe… correct me if I missed a couple). How have you been trying to increase your sleep? You can take melatonin or Z-12 from this site… additionally, I read an interesting thing (I think in John Meadows’ “adrenal fatigue” article) that people with adrenal fatigue should try to get to bed around 10pm, because they actually get a “second wind” around 11-1130pm which makes it harder to go to sleep at a later time. I’ve never heard of this before but you might try it. He has some recommendations for how to combat adrenal fatigue in that article The Adrenal Fatigue Cure
Liver - you had one estradiol test on the first page, with no reference range, and we’ve never gotten back to it. Maybe your high bilirubin (and potentially high E2) is an indicator of poor liver function. I can’t really tell you what to look for next, or how to fix it (besides milk thistle and Liv 52, which are supposed to help repair livers), but it gives you an area to do some additional research in. Fixing liver issues would help fix your estrogen issue (if you have one).
I think so too. The people on the Addison’s board couldn’t really do more than point out that my cortisol levels are too low and that the results from the insulin tolerance test point to some degree of primary adrenal failure. However, they did say that hypothyroidism could lead to poor adrenal function so we’re back at the chicken and the egg problem again…
As mentioned, what I’m trying out right now, while researching other areas, is going gluten-free. Gut problems run in my mother’s side of the family and my half-brother (same mother) has Celiac disease. From looking at some semi-scientific literature, there seems to be a connection between gluten sensitivity and hormonal imbalances. Gluten sensitivity isn’t an accepted medical term so I’m a bit skeptical, but it’s keeping my hopes up while I’m looking into other areas.
I think the estradiol test was on the low side actually. But yes, I am looking into possible liver problems - I had a hepatitis blood test this week (no results yet) and liver ultrasound which was fine. Don’t know what more I can do to test the liver? Then again, (and this is really wishful thinking from my side) elevated bilirubin levels and elevated liver enzymes are related to gluten sensitivity, so who knows…
You’re right to some extent about the chicken-egg thing, but it is recommended on many places on this board to go about fixing adrenals before you fix thyroid - that is where I would start if you rule out other possibilities and have to choose which one of those to fix first.