[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
…Look at taking the land from the Native Americans in the US, or the way that Israel was formed…
[/quote]
BTW, what’s with the ridiculous smacks-of-politically-correctness cherry picking ^?
Almost ALL land since time began was taken by force.
For instance, long before Evil White American took the land of what is now the Dakotas and eastern Montana from the Sioux the Sioux had taken it from the Crows. Why do you think the Crows were avid allies of the US military?
And the Sioux were astronomically more Evil and harsh when they did so than the American.[/quote]
just picking a couple that everyone had heard of no intent to show a liberal bias.
My main contention is that a free market deflates the value of capital(mainly labor)
if some participants use more governmental force. And that its difficult to alleviate this
except by regulation. [/quote]
But you simply misunderstand the libertarian stance, they don’t support a total lack of regulation of any kind. It’s only regulate what you have to prevent abuse. Don’t regulate to the point of encroaching on free market forces, unless there is abuse.
That’s way different that ‘no regulation at all’, nor is it no government at all. Just look no further than Somalia to figure out why that model doesn’t work at all. Where there is a power vacuum, there are several hundred evil cocks suckers ready to fill the void.
Libertarianism was born simply out of the recognition that hundreds of years of law making has began to way heavily on it’s citizens and that simply doing nothing in some cases would have, and is better that doing something just to say you did. Politicians are like dogs and the constituency are like fire plugs, ever dog has to leave his mark, just like every politician has to leave his. After time, you kill the grass with too much pea. There is to much pea in the people of the U.S. and it needs to be dialed back.
I am not a libertarian, but do hold many of the same views, where I split is their heavy emphasis on states rights, where I still believe in strong central government (just less of it), and abortion, but I don’t want to start an abortion thread, I am just saying that’s where I split.[/quote]
I for the most part agree with less government involvement in trade. At the very least I’d like to see less collusion with the large corporations in the US. I do think that governments such as China do use forced labor at the very least for their infrastructure projects which in turn forces down their overall capital costs. I do think we should tariff trade with countries that nationalize property or used forced labor.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a4j1VKZq34TM
This is one article about forced labor lower in the supply chain in the production of cars from 2006. Obviously no one wants to support this, but what should we do to enforce it other than banning trade with the countries that enslave their own? The automakers may not have known but that is a separate issue.
[/quote]
Isn’t that punishing many for the sins of a few? As for China, I have never wanted to do business with them and I would love to move away from doing business with them. Now such measures as banning trade with entire countries would only be needed if these companies weren’t taking these measures themselves, but it looks like to me, that when credible information of the use of slave labor of any kind happens in any of the supply chains, then those companies stop doing business with the offending vendors. What you don’t want to do is cripple the economies of entire countries because a few of their companies are accused of labor abuse. How much more abuse you think there would be if you made the whole damn country poor?
What none of this asserts or supports is that Libertarians knowingly love and support the use of slave labor. But I don’t see the point of destroying economy because of abuse, I do support ridding the world of abuse, but that is a life long support. Know this though, the smaller and more struggling an economy is, the more likely abuse will occur.
Do you think you’d be able to get away with slave labor on any kind of large scale in the U.S., Canada, Japan, Germany, etc.? It’s possible, but far less likely.
