Liberals Go To Great Lengths

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Al Shades wrote:
I’ve never encountered that perception before. As a matter of fact, I can name a high profile counter-example that relates to the main topic of this thread: Bill O’Reilly. He claims to be an independant but most people regard him as a conservative.

It’s funny how most people do regard that pompous twit as conservative. I happen to believe he’s not–I happen to believe that he saw Fox News being created, and saw the success of Limbaugh on the radio, and decided he could jump in. If you’ve ever heard him be more unguarded–like on Imus or something, he’s really not all that conservative. But playing at it has certainly helped his bank account. He’s come a long way from his days as host of Inside Edition or whatever, huh?
I saw a show one day where Laura Ingraham was upset with him. He couldn’t stand before a true conservative.
Do you regard him as conservative, or were you just tossing him out for the heck of it?
[/quote]

Hope you don’t mind an aussie commenting on your libs v conserv’s thread, I don’t wish to interupt your vigourous debate guys :slight_smile:
I just read the above post and it reminded me of a documentary-journo friend telling me of his adventures with fox. He believed two types of people work for the organisation, people who are genuinely conservatives and believe as such and people who are very good at pretending to be conservatives to continue receiving there pay cheques.
Would Bill “shut up” O’Reilly fall into the latter category or do you think he is genuinely conservative?

62

[quote]Ironpig wrote:
Hope you don’t mind an aussie commenting on your libs v conserv’s thread, I don’t wish to interupt your vigourous debate guys :slight_smile:
I just read the above post and it reminded me of a documentary-journo friend telling me of his adventures with fox. He believed two types of people work for the organisation, people who are genuinely conservatives and believe as such and people who are very good at pretending to be conservatives to continue receiving there pay cheques.
Would Bill “shut up” O’Reilly fall into the latter category or do you think he is genuinely conservative?[/quote]

Hulk no like O’Reilly! Hulk think O’Reilly lying skunk!
Hulk think O’Reilly opportunistic lib weasel!

63

[quote]vroom wrote:

Joe, in all likelihood, I appear to be a libertarian. Certainly, on the boards here I’m always arguing with conservatives who are using talking points and twisted logic, ignoring anything that doesn’t match their preconcieved notions.

[/quote]

B/c I’m more libertarian than anything else, and I don’t agree with much of what you say. now…if you’re just ‘playin’ with conservatives, I guess that explains it.
At the state fair here (cause NH is home to the free staters…) they had a booth. I was exactly on the chart where I said I’d be before I took the stupid quiz. The man was shocked.
I lacked 2 answers of being the “perfect” or “model” libertarian.
B/C I do think there should be some restrictions on things on public airwaves. I don’t see any reason why kids need to be subjected to some of the crap that’s out there.
Stuff like that.

64

[quote]hedo wrote:
The technique that drives Colmes and the other liberal guests mad is when Hannity continues to ask a question until the libs answer it.

Hannity did it last night with the gal wearing the “American Communist” t-shirt. She became totally flustered because she wouldn’t answer any questions. She would just read canned answers she had and spout positions. Reminded me of John Kerry being interviewed.

The real question is why do the liberals seemed determined to hid their true intentions.
[/quote]
The “shouting technique” is annoying I’ll grant you that, but that’s the whole m.o. of shows like this. It’s like the Harlem Globetrotters. But regardless of the shouting, Hannity is still lying, distorting, or quoting out of context, and Colmes can correct Hannity’s mistake every single time, but it never stops Sean from telling the exact same lie the next day. It’s really hilarious I think, the whole setup of the show, hapless no-name liberals (mostly), fake democrats (pat caddell types) and milquetoast colmes vs. faxed RNC talkingpoints from attack poodle Hannity, and slanderous bile from Mann Coulter, and Bill “Gamblin’ Man” Bennett. It’s quite addicting.

Oh, and what are liberals hidden intentions?

65

[quote]100meters wrote:
(mostly), fake democrats (pat caddell types) [/quote]
What do you have against caddell? You’ve mentioned it in 2 threads this AM.
I don’t think he’s a fake democrat, in fact if the party was more like him and his views they wouldn’t be losing election after election. Heaven forbid he wants the party to go back to supporting people instead of championing the fringe nuts.

66

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
(mostly), fake democrats (pat caddell types)
What do you have against caddell? You’ve mentioned it in 2 threads this AM.
I don’t think he’s a fake democrat, in fact if the party was more like him and his views they wouldn’t be losing election after election. Heaven forbid he wants the party to go back to supporting people instead of championing the fringe nuts.

[/quote]
If the party was more like him, there’d be no democratic party (he worked on the campaign of Los Angeles mayor Richard Riordan(R) run for CA govenor–a real democrat huh?). Just because you fell for the frame that the party supports “fringe nuts” (who are they?)doesn’t make it so. Poll, after poll show american voters support liberal policies sometimes by suprisingly huge majorities even on really “radical” issues such as healthcare and the enviroment, so this frame of radical or far left is always going to be a smokescreen used by the right. It doesn’t help to have a “democrat” like Caddell spreading this frame (as they work for Rep. canidates no less)

67

Joe, pay more attention to what I actually say instead of what other posters think I say. I generally don’t actually say all that much - but people draw a lot of inferences.

–

About FOX, I think it is funny.

Take some example sorry excuse for a liberal, and then pound the crap out of this person. It’s like a straw man argument every episode. It’s the modern day equivalent of the roman gladiators.

Whatever that is, it isn’t news. It is entertainment. It certainly is not representative of liberalism to get someone in there wearing an “American Communist” t-shirt, that is for sure.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? If you get your talking points from a joke like that, you must know you are simply a dupe?

68

would those be the polls that happen every 2 years in November?

Cause those are pretty much all that matters.

As far as the fringe lefty’s…for instance the people who’re rabidly after killing Terri? Delivering babies alive and then sticking scissors in their heads to kill them?
People like that.
(BTW, I’m pro choice…but the partial birth thing is horrible.)

69

[quote]100meters wrote:
If the party was more like him, there’d be no democratic party (he worked on the campaign of Los Angeles mayor Richard Riordan(R) run for CA govenor–a real democrat huh?). Just because you fell for the frame that the party supports “fringe nuts” (who are they?)doesn’t make it so. Poll, after poll show american voters support liberal policies sometimes by suprisingly huge majorities even on really “radical” issues such as healthcare and the enviroment, so this frame of radical or far left is always going to be a smokescreen used by the right. It doesn’t help to have a “democrat” like Caddell spreading this frame (as they work for Rep. canidates no less)

[/quote]

You can get the majority of the American people to support eating dog shit if the question is framed right.

You keep spouting off that most americans support liberal causes. The only proof you can offer up are polls. What strikes me as odd is that in no less than 6 consecutlive national elections the liberals have lost. People reject their ideas by a majority.

But by all means, please keep clinging to the polls that ‘prove’ americans to be liberal. You’ll continue to lose elections - the only poll that actually means something.

70

[quote]vroom wrote:
Zeb, at least here on the forums, everybody, liberals and conservatives alike, loves free speech unless it disagrees with their viewpoint – and then they get nasty.

You only paint half the picture, perhaps because you only see half the picture.

–

Joe, in all likelihood, I appear to be a libertarian. Certainly, on the boards here I’m always arguing with conservatives who are using talking points and twisted logic, ignoring anything that doesn’t match their preconcieved notions.

These people misinterpret my attempt to pry open the issues and my disagreement with their take as having the diametrically opposed view to the issue being discussed.

If you haven’t noticed, Zeb is great at jumping the gun on things. He’s sure I must be a liberal. He thinks I’m running from the lable. I just explained a few posts back that I think his label contains a lot more than I am willing to be aligned with.

I thought the explanation was pretty simple and pretty reasonable, but not to Zeb. Because I don’t have the same views he does I must be some diametrically opposed clown with ultra-liberal leanings. Hogwash.

Fore example, participating in discussions and considering issues doesn’t mean that I’m for increased spending, taxation or government to attempt solutions. That’s just leaping to another conclusion.

Hell, consider this guy selling these stupid devices, maybe he’s still a conservative and he’s thinking, screw it, I’ll pretend I’m independent and make this device, and I’ll sell millions of them to stupid liberals. I’ll retire wealthy in a year.

Wow, that’s smart. I don’t care what political stripe the guy is. If he can make that happen, he’s just taken advantage of sentiment in a major way, taken the steps necessary to be newsworthy and pulled off a marketing coup.

Some people really are that smart. Here we are, like idiots, arguing about whether the guy is liberal or not. We are doing this in a thread bashing liberals. Do you really think that is what the story is about, liberals being idiots who will do anything?

More hogwash.

There’s not really a story here – all we are doing is playing in a thread which is a great example of how ones own biases shape how one perceives things.[/quote]

Yea vroom you are a “Libertarian,” sure you are. Well…you have the first 5 letters right anyway, but you are a “Liber…al”

All but a few issues you spout the liberal view point. I have already pointed them out to you.

Do you somehow think its “cooler” to be a libertarian than a liberal?

71

[quote]vroom wrote:
B/c I’m more libertarian than anything else, and I don’t agree with much of what you say.

Joe, pay more attention to what I actually say instead of what other posters think I say. I generally don’t actually say all that much - but people draw a lot of inferences.
[/quote]

vroom, I try, but sometimes you’re exceedingly hard to pin down. Or hadn’t you noticed???

72

[quote]vroom wrote:
Joe, pay more attention to what I actually say instead of what other posters think I say. I generally don’t actually say all that much - but people draw a lot of inferences.[/quote]

You are very adept at dancing around saying anything. You write your posts such that when inferences are drawn, you can quickly deny them with a standard, 'that’s not what I meant" reply. Honestly vroom, it’s not a crime to be honest and admit you are a liberal. If you walk like a duck and quack like a duck…

[quote]About FOX, I think it is funny.

Take some example sorry excuse for a liberal, and then pound the crap out of this person. It’s like a straw man argument every episode. It’s the modern day equivalent of the roman gladiators.

Whatever that is, it isn’t news. It is entertainment. It certainly is not representative of liberalism to get someone in there wearing an “American Communist” t-shirt, that is for sure.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? If you get your talking points from a joke like that, you must know you are simply a dupe? [/quote]

You are referring H&C - not a news report, but a current event driven debate show. Entertainmnet. Not news. How hard is it for you folks to figure Fox out? If I, or any other conservative, were to speak with such ignorance on a topic, we would be crucified.

Yet you are free to throw stones while demonstrating absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter.

73

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
would those be the polls that happen every 2 years in November?

Cause those are pretty much all that matters.

As far as the fringe lefty’s…for instance the people who’re rabidly after killing Terri? Delivering babies alive and then sticking scissors in their heads to kill them?
People like that.
(BTW, I’m pro choice…but the partial birth thing is horrible.)

[/quote]

Oh dear!
Who is rabidly after killing Terri? Nobody forced Terri to be bulimic! Is President Bush a part of this fringe by being “FOR” taking people off life support if they can longer afford care?.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=601938
And who is “FOR” sticking scissors in babies heads? Even the mothers having late-term abortions don’t want this to happen. By their very nature Third trimester babies are WANTED babies. You will always be misinformed by anti-choice propoganda on this. All the women who testified before congress on this issue desperately WANTED to have their babies. And NOBODY thinks this isn’t horrible. Good Lord! There is nothing “Fringe” about it.

But these are EXACTLY the kind of stupid frames that the right uses to tremendous effect on American voters.

74

[quote]rainjack wrote:
vroom wrote:
Joe, pay more attention to what I actually say instead of what other posters think I say. I generally don’t actually say all that much - but people draw a lot of inferences.

You are very adept at dancing around saying anything. You write your posts such that when inferences are drawn, you can quickly deny them with a standard, 'that’s not what I meant" reply. Honestly vroom, it’s not a crime to be honest and admit you are a liberal. If you walk like a duck and quack like a duck…

About FOX, I think it is funny.

Take some example sorry excuse for a liberal, and then pound the crap out of this person. It’s like a straw man argument every episode. It’s the modern day equivalent of the roman gladiators.

Whatever that is, it isn’t news. It is entertainment. It certainly is not representative of liberalism to get someone in there wearing an “American Communist” t-shirt, that is for sure.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? If you get your talking points from a joke like that, you must know you are simply a dupe?

You are referring H&C - not a news report, but a current event driven debate show. Entertainmnet. Not news. How hard is it for you folks to figure Fox out? If I, or any other conservative, were to speak with such ignorance on a topic, we would be crucified.

Yet you are free to throw stones while demonstrating absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter.
[/quote]

Well, unfortunately the bias permeates into the news.
witness Brit Hume (NEWS ANCHOR) lying to viewers about FDR intentions with S.S.–an obvious shill for the Bush administration.
Or recently fox’s newest “fair and balanced” reporter Julie Banderas:

BANDERAS: Well, you know, even though the legal options are dwindling by the minute for Terri Schiavo’s family, the protesters here, while they are discouraged, still holding out hope. You can see them behind me. Obviously, you know, they’ve been rooting for Terri for six days now, and these protesters are not going anywhere. … Also, Governor Jeb Bush and his legal people still frantically trying to come up with something in order to intervene. But earlier, Governor Bush made a good statement, and it makes sense. I mean, he does not support this. Of course, he also doesn’t support the 90,000 abortions that take place every single year. There is not much he can do. His hands are tied."
hmmm…a little opinion in there?

or

BANDERAS: Now, as for the protesters out here today, they’re growing in numbers. In fact, we just saw a plane fly overhead. It was carrying a sign. It said, “Governor Jeb Bush please save Terri.” As we know, he’s doing everything he can.

BANDERAS: Her parents tell me she’s getting weaker by the minute. A doctor who’s known Terri for years feels she would be given a fighting chance and should be given a fighting chance, stating that Terri Schiavo can still swallow. Her doctors now saying that she swallows every day, and you can think about it, it makes sense. Otherwise, she would choke to death on her own saliva, and is entitled to proper rehabilitative medical care.

This of course ignored the fact that doctors don’t deny she can’t swallow, just that she can’t “take in sufficient sustenance”

FOX is just not a good place to get news, but it is a great place for entertainment.

75

Heh, Rainjack, my bad, but I’ve already admitted I don’t have the ability to watch FOX, so I can only go by what I’m reading here.

–

I don’t know Zeb, I was told I was a libertarian by some folks on these forums, and that is the message I got when I took one of those political tests.

I’m not afraid to be a liberal, but I’m not a tree hugging, anti-war, anti-business, big government moron either. Since I equate your use of liberal with those viewpoints, I’m loathe to wear that cloak.

Sometimes I am simply trying to peel the layers off of the onion and get at the base issues and reasoning involved. I’d like to understand the thinking of others at times. You are free to draw your own conclusions, but you might not be right.

I may be liberal, I may be libertarian, but I’m not the liberal or ultra-liberal you make me out to be.

You’ve got half the folks on here judging my posts by my name instead of what I say. They generally ignore the qualifying remarks I make and simply assume what I say is biased. This prejudgement is a bit annoying, especially since it isn’t all that accurate.

I’ve even got PM’s from folks who believed your tirades before, that I had an anti-american viewpoint, which I certainly do not. If I don’t argue against your mistaken statements concerning my own viewpoint, folks, especially those new to the boards, are apt to believe what you say.

Do I have any choice but to represent my views myself, instead of letting you misrepresent them?

76

[quote]100meters wrote:
Oh dear!
Who is rabidly after killing Terri? Nobody forced Terri to be bulimic![/quote]

So she decerves to be starved to death? yOu left-wing death mongers will use anything and everything to justify your blood lust.

[quote]Is President Bush a part of this fringe by being “FOR” taking people off life support if they can longer afford care?.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=601938[/quote]

Please show me in this article, or in the actual bill that Gov. Bush signed where anyone forces the starvation of patients.Because, honestly - I didn’t see that anywhere.

Just those NOW-gangers that scream for the reights of their uterus, and any doctor that has performed this murder. While you’re at it - you might as well throw the moms that have their babies murdered in the 7th month. None of these folks have a problem in the world with stabbing a baby in the head with a pair of sciddors. Oh, the mom’s probably feel like shit AFTER they realize what they’ve done - but that’s a little too late.

You just keep believing that. The scary part is that the courts are taking the constitution into the bathroom, wiping their asses with it, and then making up their own ‘rules’. This is making murder - whether it is the murder of babies, or those defensless adults - more and more mainstream.

I see - so not supporting the murder of the innocent is stupid? Whew…and the left compares Bush to Hitler?

77

But there’s no liberal bias when Dan Rather knowingly lies about the Bushes not once, not twice, but three times?

Your hypocrisy smells worse than your death-monger stench.

78

[quote]100meters wrote:
Well, unfortunately the bias permeates into the news.
witness Brit Hume (NEWS ANCHOR) lying to viewers about FDR intentions with S.S.–an obvious shill for the Bush administration.
Or recently fox’s newest “fair and balanced” reporter Julie Banderas:

BANDERAS: Well, you know, even though the legal options are dwindling by the minute for Terri Schiavo’s family, the protesters here, while they are discouraged, still holding out hope. You can see them behind me. Obviously, you know, they’ve been rooting for Terri for six days now, and these protesters are not going anywhere. … Also, Governor Jeb Bush and his legal people still frantically trying to come up with something in order to intervene. But earlier, Governor Bush made a good statement, and it makes sense. I mean, he does not support this. Of course, he also doesn’t support the 90,000 abortions that take place every single year. There is not much he can do. His hands are tied."
hmmm…a little opinion in there?

or

BANDERAS: Now, as for the protesters out here today, they’re growing in numbers. In fact, we just saw a plane fly overhead. It was carrying a sign. It said, “Governor Jeb Bush please save Terri.” As we know, he’s doing everything he can.

BANDERAS: Her parents tell me she’s getting weaker by the minute. A doctor who’s known Terri for years feels she would be given a fighting chance and should be given a fighting chance, stating that Terri Schiavo can still swallow. Her doctors now saying that she swallows every day, and you can think about it, it makes sense. Otherwise, she would choke to death on her own saliva, and is entitled to proper rehabilitative medical care.

This of course ignored the fact that doctors don’t deny she can’t swallow, just that she can’t “take in sufficient sustenance”

FOX is just not a good place to get news, but it is a great place for entertainment.
[/quote]

As for the Banderas quotes - It’s just a matter of who you believe as to where the bias is. ABC News asked leading question after leading question to their field reporter in FL wrt the Shiavo case.

The death-monger lawyer thinks that Terry looks peaceful. Tell me how does a vegetable look peaceful? How in the fuck can she hear the peaceful music in the background? She’s a vegetable.

The stench of your bloodlust is affecting your ability to make a good argument, Lumpy.

79

Vroom buddy, I don’t need a tree to tell me that it is in fact a tree before I can with a shred of certainty proclaim to others that it is in fact a tree. Someone who makes a fox blocker, with 99% certanty is a liberal. the other 1 percent being a savvy business man, or actually really pissed off at fox for another reason.

On to the bigger issue here, liberals, in general, will analyze, over analyze, poke and prod something untill it fits thier perfect world view, and 20 years later something might get done. Conservatives analyze, decide and take action in a very short amount of time.

Hence, you are not certain in your own mind that the man in question is a liberal. Actually you have formed an opinion, you just won’t say it because you aren’t 100% certain, so you waffle, and give a bunch of mish mash, he could be many things type of response. You are wishy washy, and won’t speak your mind. You tell zeb that he may only be seeing half the picture, yet you yourself don’t venture a guess as to what he is missing. your liberal agenda is all too transparent for the simple fact that both sides on this forum are equally skilled at making assumptions, yet you only call it on the conservatives on the board. Or at least you call it on 99% conservatives and maybe once or twice you called a lib for making unfounded assuptions.

Yet after this, (evidence) as you like to have is presented before you, you will undoubtedly deny any association with the left. Which is fine, we are all quite used to your, somewhat un-useful, injecture.

By the way, I’m not a conservative either, I just like to look objectively at human communication patterns, and identify and label them and learn the intracacies of communication in general. I only see fit to critique your communication style because you claim fairness and objectivity, yet there is nothing objective or fair regarding your communication. (by the way, spending hours and hours analyzing pictures of hot babes qualifies me to analyze other things like communication patterns) :wink:

80

[quote]100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
would those be the polls that happen every 2 years in November?

Cause those are pretty much all that matters.

As far as the fringe lefty’s…for instance the people who’re rabidly after killing Terri? Delivering babies alive and then sticking scissors in their heads to kill them?
People like that.
(BTW, I’m pro choice…but the partial birth thing is horrible.)

Oh dear!
Who is rabidly after killing Terri? Nobody forced Terri to be bulimic! Is President Bush a part of this fringe by being “FOR” taking people off life support if they can longer afford care?.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=601938
And who is “FOR” sticking scissors in babies heads? Even the mothers having late-term abortions don’t want this to happen. By their very nature Third trimester babies are WANTED babies. You will always be misinformed by anti-choice propoganda on this. All the women who testified before congress on this issue desperately WANTED to have their babies. And NOBODY thinks this isn’t horrible. Good Lord! There is nothing “Fringe” about it.

But these are EXACTLY the kind of stupid frames that the right uses to tremendous effect on American voters.[/quote]
Have you seen Barney Frank on tv talking about the Shiavo case? He’s almost drooling.
And thanks, but I’ve heard and read testimony from nurses and doctors who’ve done late term abortions.
I disagree with what you tried to say.
As for who thinks it isn’t horrible…Bill Clinton, who refused to sign the bill?