Liberal Bias In Media Exposed..Again

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do you really want to offer this article as proof? Even the author admits that the gap between CNN and Fox is all but obliterated.

The graph that is offered only estimates for 2004. I would expect that CNN, after a healthy 10 run as the darling of Cable News will be in a solid 2nd place after 2005.

Were I supporter of your thinking, and I read that report, I would be seeking shelter to avoid the huge crash.

Yeah, the gap is closing. But it is still 110 million dollars wide!

given the reasons for the gap as stated in your article, I don’t think I’d be trumpeting it. But then again, you’ve got a strange thought process…

Joe,

This comment was you at your moronic best. I apologize for the previous ambiguity.

Todd

Todd, 2 things.

  1. Did you read the article you posted? I don’t believe you did.
    Considering the amount of growth Fox is poised and predicted to do–at the expense of CNN.
  2. Are you the same Todd Jacobs that came home early and found me in bed with his wife and 16 year old daughter…?
    Cause if you are, that explains a lot.
    Like I tried to tell you at the time, I didn’t know she was married, and they told me they were sisters.

[/quote]

Joe,

How does CNN having an earnings lead of several millions of dollars in net profit, plus an earnings lead of multiple hundreds of millions of dollars, ultimately play out in your mind that Fox is ahead?

This is strange logic to you? Wow.

Good insult too. It really hit home. Can I assume that Joe Mama jokes come next?

Todd

[quote]Bodhisattva wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:

I agree whole-heartedly with that without even bothering to read the article!

How can you agree with something you haven’t read?[/quote]

because you summarized it and I was agreeing with what you said?
WTF?

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do you really want to offer this article as proof? Even the author admits that the gap between CNN and Fox is all but obliterated.

The graph that is offered only estimates for 2004. I would expect that CNN, after a healthy 10 run as the darling of Cable News will be in a solid 2nd place after 2005.

Were I supporter of your thinking, and I read that report, I would be seeking shelter to avoid the huge crash.

Yeah, the gap is closing. But it is still 110 million dollars wide!

given the reasons for the gap as stated in your article, I don’t think I’d be trumpeting it. But then again, you’ve got a strange thought process…

Joe,

This comment was you at your moronic best. I apologize for the previous ambiguity.

Todd

Todd, 2 things.

  1. Did you read the article you posted? I don’t believe you did.
    Considering the amount of growth Fox is poised and predicted to do–at the expense of CNN.
  2. Are you the same Todd Jacobs that came home early and found me in bed with his wife and 16 year old daughter…?
    Cause if you are, that explains a lot.
    Like I tried to tell you at the time, I didn’t know she was married, and they told me they were sisters.

Joe,

How does CNN having an earnings lead of several millions of dollars in net profit, plus an earnings lead of multiple hundreds of millions of dollars, ultimately play out in your mind that Fox is ahead?

This is strange logic to you? Wow.

Good insult too. It really hit home. Can I assume that Joe Mama jokes come next?

Todd
[/quote]

Because Fox is ahead in the ratings, Fox is projected to make a huge amount more than CNN or MSNBC in the next few years…simple, really.

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Todd:
You cannot pick and choose from the source material in your effort to run me down; it only makes you look silly in the end.

Joe,

This would be a good comeback if:

A. I had done that

B. You hadn’t been doing this for the duration of our exchanges

Unfortunately for you, neither is the case!

Sorry!

Todd[/quote]
But you have. I don’t have the interest to go back and document it for you, but it wasn’t that long ago. You’re living in a fantasy world.
Please stop trying to drag the rest of us into it.

[quote]Bodhisattva wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:

I agree whole-heartedly with that without even bothering to read the article!

Didn’t you say that funding sources are market driven? Now you say you whole-heartedly agree with this article you don’t bother to read. You are contradicting yourself.[/quote]

That the politicians are being funded/supported by media types.

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do you really want to offer this article as proof? Even the author admits that the gap between CNN and Fox is all but obliterated.

The graph that is offered only estimates for 2004. I would expect that CNN, after a healthy 10 run as the darling of Cable News will be in a solid 2nd place after 2005.

Were I supporter of your thinking, and I read that report, I would be seeking shelter to avoid the huge crash.

Yeah, the gap is closing. But it is still 110 million dollars wide!

given the reasons for the gap as stated in your article, I don’t think I’d be trumpeting it. But then again, you’ve got a strange thought process…

Joe,

This comment was you at your moronic best. I apologize for the previous ambiguity.

Todd

Todd, 2 things.

  1. Did you read the article you posted? I don’t believe you did.
    Considering the amount of growth Fox is poised and predicted to do–at the expense of CNN.
  2. Are you the same Todd Jacobs that came home early and found me in bed with his wife and 16 year old daughter…?
    Cause if you are, that explains a lot.
    Like I tried to tell you at the time, I didn’t know she was married, and they told me they were sisters.

Joe,

How does CNN having an earnings lead of several millions of dollars in net profit, plus an earnings lead of multiple hundreds of millions of dollars, ultimately play out in your mind that Fox is ahead?

This is strange logic to you? Wow.

Good insult too. It really hit home. Can I assume that Joe Mama jokes come next?

Todd
[/quote]

Why? I didn’t do your mother…she was as ugly as you.

[quote]Bodhisattva wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:

I agree whole-heartedly with that without even bothering to read the article!

Didn’t you say that funding sources are market driven? Now you say you whole-heartedly agree with this article you don’t bother to read. You are contradicting yourself.[/quote]

I said that the market–that is people who watch the channels are the people targeted by the advertisers who are buying time.

Sorry, I wasn’t aware we’d shifted gears to a new funding source for television. When did they stop selling ads?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Todd,

“So let me get this straight. Massive debt, which is create by budgets that the President either approves or vetoes, is not under the direct control of the President?”

Sure it is.

When did I say it wasn’t?

Deficits, not necessarily.[/quote]

I would say that the responsibility for an annual deficit must be shouldered in part by the sitting President.

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do you really want to offer this article as proof? Even the author admits that the gap between CNN and Fox is all but obliterated.

The graph that is offered only estimates for 2004. I would expect that CNN, after a healthy 10 run as the darling of Cable News will be in a solid 2nd place after 2005.

Were I supporter of your thinking, and I read that report, I would be seeking shelter to avoid the huge crash.

Yeah, the gap is closing. But it is still 110 million dollars wide!

given the reasons for the gap as stated in your article, I don’t think I’d be trumpeting it. But then again, you’ve got a strange thought process…

Joe,

This comment was you at your moronic best. I apologize for the previous ambiguity.

Todd

Todd, 2 things.

  1. Did you read the article you posted? I don’t believe you did.
    Considering the amount of growth Fox is poised and predicted to do–at the expense of CNN.
  2. Are you the same Todd Jacobs that came home early and found me in bed with his wife and 16 year old daughter…?
    Cause if you are, that explains a lot.
    Like I tried to tell you at the time, I didn’t know she was married, and they told me they were sisters.

Joe,

How does CNN having an earnings lead of several millions of dollars in net profit, plus an earnings lead of multiple hundreds of millions of dollars, ultimately play out in your mind that Fox is ahead?

This is strange logic to you? Wow.

Good insult too. It really hit home. Can I assume that Joe Mama jokes come next?

Todd
[/quote]

Todd, I’ve tried to be nice, I’ve tried to work with you, I’ve even tried to help educate you…and all I’ve gotten for my effort is insult and aggravation. So here’s the proposal: You’ve been hopping up and down saying I wouldn’t answer your questions. I thought I had, to the extent I felt like it. But in one last effort to humor you, I challenge you: start a new thread. Post your question or questions in it, and I’ll go to it and answer them. I’ve suggested this approach to you a couple of times previous, but now I’m stating it plain. Either do this, or stop. Put up or shut up.
'Kay?
'Cause frankly, I’m tired of you. You’re not serving any useful purpose I can think of.
And playing spin the bottle with a pompous high school kid is not high on my list of things I really like to do.
Put up or shut up.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do you really want to offer this article as proof? Even the author admits that the gap between CNN and Fox is all but obliterated.

The graph that is offered only estimates for 2004. I would expect that CNN, after a healthy 10 run as the darling of Cable News will be in a solid 2nd place after 2005.

Were I supporter of your thinking, and I read that report, I would be seeking shelter to avoid the huge crash.

Yeah, the gap is closing. But it is still 110 million dollars wide!

given the reasons for the gap as stated in your article, I don’t think I’d be trumpeting it. But then again, you’ve got a strange thought process…

Joe,

This comment was you at your moronic best. I apologize for the previous ambiguity.

Todd

Todd, 2 things.

  1. Did you read the article you posted? I don’t believe you did.
    Considering the amount of growth Fox is poised and predicted to do–at the expense of CNN.
  2. Are you the same Todd Jacobs that came home early and found me in bed with his wife and 16 year old daughter…?
    Cause if you are, that explains a lot.
    Like I tried to tell you at the time, I didn’t know she was married, and they told me they were sisters.

Joe,

How does CNN having an earnings lead of several millions of dollars in net profit, plus an earnings lead of multiple hundreds of millions of dollars, ultimately play out in your mind that Fox is ahead?

This is strange logic to you? Wow.

Good insult too. It really hit home. Can I assume that Joe Mama jokes come next?

Todd

Todd, I’ve tried to be nice, I’ve tried to work with you, I’ve even tried to help educate you…and all I’ve gotten for my effort is insult and aggravation. So here’s the proposal: You’ve been hopping up and down saying I wouldn’t answer your questions. I thought I had, to the extent I felt like it. But in one last effort to humor you, I challenge you: start a new thread. Post your question or questions in it, and I’ll go to it and answer them. I’ve suggested this approach to you a couple of times previous, but now I’m stating it plain. Either do this, or stop. Put up or shut up.
'Kay?
'Cause frankly, I’m tired of you. You’re not serving any useful purpose I can think of.
And playing spin the bottle with a pompous high school kid is not high on my list of things I really like to do.
Put up or shut up.

[/quote]

Joe,

You haven’t made an actual points at all that I can divine. You have made no real attempt to answer any question or set out a real supported argument. You have continuous shown your ignorance, hurled insults, and tried to simply dismiss the arguments of others without substantiation. Quit crying and construct a cohesive argument. I have done that. So I would have to argue that I certainly am helping this thread along moreso than you are.

I couldn’t care less about your personal opinion of me.

Todd

[quote]100meters wrote:
ZEB wrote:
No actually I thought the pile of trash you wrote did not deserve a response. Not trying to hurt your feelings, but it’s the same old liberal crap. That and if you don’t think Reagan was a great President by now, I’m not going to change your mind. That, and I honestly think you are Lumpy writing under a different name…are you Lumpy? Come on…either confirm or deny it!

Well this was a less mature attempt at debating for sure. It appears that you are either clueless, brainwashed, or weren’t alive in the 80’s. I’m guessing you think Reagan was great because they sell Reagan baseball caps on Newsmax.com or something, because the 80’s weren’t great if you weren’t incredibly rich.
Typically people regard stock market crashes, recession, unemployment, corruption, and massive debt as bad things, just for future reference.

[/quote]

That’s all well and good, but you have still not answered the question that is on the mind of every politically astute T-Man on this forum! Are you, or are you not Lumpy?

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:

Todd, I’ve tried to be nice, I’ve tried to work with you, I’ve even tried to help educate you…and all I’ve gotten for my effort is insult and aggravation. So here’s the proposal: You’ve been hopping up and down saying I wouldn’t answer your questions. I thought I had, to the extent I felt like it. But in one last effort to humor you, I challenge you: start a new thread. Post your question or questions in it, and I’ll go to it and answer them. I’ve suggested this approach to you a couple of times previous, but now I’m stating it plain. Either do this, or stop. Put up or shut up.
'Kay?
'Cause frankly, I’m tired of you. You’re not serving any useful purpose I can think of.
And playing spin the bottle with a pompous high school kid is not high on my list of things I really like to do.
Put up or shut up.

Joe,

You haven’t made an actual points at all that I can divine. You have made no real attempt to answer any question or set out a real supported argument. You have continuous shown your ignorance, hurled insults, and tried to simply dismiss the arguments of others without substantiation. Quit crying and construct a cohesive argument. I have done that. So I would have to argue that I certainly am helping this thread along moreso than you are.

I couldn’t care less about your personal opinion of me.

Todd
[/quote]

So you’re not going to follow through? You ask me to answer your questions, but refuse to tell me what those questions are, then when I can’t answer them, you insult me for that?
Cool.
And I gather you have no plans to either put up or shut up, which makes you most definiately NOT a T-Man.
I think they’re accepting new member over at the Oxygen web site, or perhaps the Oprah message boards.

Oh, and just to clear something up: I’m in no way “crying”.
I’m laughing a little, shaking my head a little…but definately not crying.
Have a nice night!

I’m not surprised you don’t recognize the concepts I’m talking about… use your brain and figure it out or ignore it. Your choice.

[quote]vroom wrote:
WTF are you even talking about, vroom? There would be no cable, or network news if there wasn’t money involved.

I’m not surprised you don’t recognize the concepts I’m talking about… use your brain and figure it out or ignore it. Your choice.[/quote]

Seriously. vroom - what are you talking about? You can either answer the question, or ignore it. Your choice.

I’m not inclined to enter a guessing game with you. Is it your contention that money is evil? That all broadcast and cable providers should be operating out of purely philanthropic motive?

It’s really not that freakin hard to come out and say what you mean. Try it some time - you might find that someone will actually understand what the hell you are talking about.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Todd,

“3. I am perfectly willing to admit this is far from a perfect system in determining the answer to the question.”

I’d so further - it is largely useless.

“I would argue on the other hand that the study in question is also flawed with regards to its hopes of settling whether the media is liberally or conservatively biased. The media was studied on its reactions to the war in Iraq and to its reactions to Bush and Kerry.”

I personally don’t believe it is a conclusive study and should be cited in isolation. I believe, properly understood, that it is one more observation that supports a liberal bias in mainstream media.

“There are far too many human factors involved here; personal reactions to the war or war in general, and personal reactions to Bush and Kerry as people, to name two.”

Absolutely, and you are making my point for me - these ‘human factors’ are bleeding into straight news coverage by a largely predominant liberal group of reporters that have jobs in journalism.

You’re absolutely right - story choice is being determined too often by personal reactions. If you have ever read an AP or Reuters piece, it’s clear.

I don’t expect perfection - what I do expect is professional responsibility to do the job of neutral observer in reporting. That role was lost during Vietnam and Watergate, when the media - as an institution - decided it had a different role: to speak truth to power. They assumed their new role was to take on the power structure and expose it. That attitude has prevailed - Dan Rather was perhaps its most celebrated champion.

“Any tool for measuring whether the media truly has a bias is going to be fundamentally flawed because the subject itself is inherently subjective.”

True. But just because it can’t be purely objective, that doesn’t mean we throw the baby out with the bath water. When there is reasonable evidence that points to bias, it’s fair to value it as such.

And, I don’t think the Columbia School of Journalism has much of a partisan ax to grind. There observations are not absolute proof of liberal bias, but taken in the context of what we know about some of the media flapdoodles over the past year or so, it buttresses the claims.

“I have met quite a few people who believe that the media is far too conservative. I have also met quite a few people who believe that Fox is not nearly conservative enough.”

I don’t doubt it, but I am making my observation from a ‘straight news’ standpoint. The op-ed branch of the news network can do as it likes.

[/quote]

I pretty much agree with most of what you said.

Todd

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:

Todd, I’ve tried to be nice, I’ve tried to work with you, I’ve even tried to help educate you…and all I’ve gotten for my effort is insult and aggravation. So here’s the proposal: You’ve been hopping up and down saying I wouldn’t answer your questions. I thought I had, to the extent I felt like it. But in one last effort to humor you, I challenge you: start a new thread. Post your question or questions in it, and I’ll go to it and answer them. I’ve suggested this approach to you a couple of times previous, but now I’m stating it plain. Either do this, or stop. Put up or shut up.
'Kay?
'Cause frankly, I’m tired of you. You’re not serving any useful purpose I can think of.
And playing spin the bottle with a pompous high school kid is not high on my list of things I really like to do.
Put up or shut up.

Joe,

You haven’t made an actual points at all that I can divine. You have made no real attempt to answer any question or set out a real supported argument. You have continuous shown your ignorance, hurled insults, and tried to simply dismiss the arguments of others without substantiation. Quit crying and construct a cohesive argument. I have done that. So I would have to argue that I certainly am helping this thread along moreso than you are.

I couldn’t care less about your personal opinion of me.

Todd

So you’re not going to follow through? You ask me to answer your questions, but refuse to tell me what those questions are, then when I can’t answer them, you insult me for that?
Cool.
And I gather you have no plans to either put up or shut up, which makes you most definiately NOT a T-Man.
I think they’re accepting new member over at the Oxygen web site, or perhaps the Oprah message boards.

Oh, and just to clear something up: I’m in no way “crying”.
I’m laughing a little, shaking my head a little…but definately not crying.
Have a nice night!
[/quote]

Here, for your viewing pleasure, is a consolidated list of the questions I have asked you:

I asked you to defend your assertion that exhaustive research is not necessary in order to provide a complete explanation in accordance with Occham’s Razor. I’ve done this no less than four times. You refuse.

Here’s the play by play:

You initially replied with an article that displayed my assertion verbatim. In it, this passage was displayed:

Occam’s Razor is now usually stated as follows:

Of two equivalent theories or explanations, all other things being equal, the simpler one is to be preferred.

As this is ambiguous, Isaac Newton’s version may be better:

We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances.

In the spirit of Occam’s Razor itself, the rule may be stated thus:

“The simplest explanation is usually the best.”

In the final version, the word explanation implies that the explanation must be COMPLETE. The writer of the article intentionally used the most succinct definition possible in order to prove a point.

You went on to quote your professor. “confronted by the pyramids, you don’t go looking for the ET’s that beamed them into place, you look for the quarries.” The quote incontrovertibly supported my assertion and debunked yours. By “looking for the quarries,” you embark on a detailed search for evidence that supports a simple explanation. I created a post detailing this to which you never responded. Which leads me to ask the following:

  1. How is it possible to have a complete explanation without having examined all of the pertinent data?

I also asked this question:

  1. Is collecting knowledge in order to make an informed decision paralyzing?

That was in response to this statement from you that Occham’s Razor “in no way indicates that we have to paralyze ourselves attempting to research every aspect of all sides of an issue.” I have since come to refer to that as the Slacker’s Manifesto.

My third question, which I have asked multiple times, is whether the US has the world’s lowest poverty rate. You have previously asserted that it did. I’ll ask again:

  1. Does the US actually have the world’s lowest poverty rate?

There are two possible answers to this: yes or no. Only one of those could possibly be correct. In either case, an explanation is warranted as to why you say that. A discussion about India is probably not called for either. Warning: Use of google may be required to give a correct answer here.

In the meantime, you have accused me of never responding to facts, which I found entertaining since I can’t seem to get one straightforward answer out of you. Whenever I turn your own evidence right back on you, you simply ignore my posts.

You also claimed that Rainjack never makes personal attacks in his debating style. Then, in the very next post, Rainjack attacked me personally.

It’s all very entertaining, Joe. I’m enjoying myself thoroughly.

Todd

Todd:
I don’t think I actually said the US had one of the lowest poverty rates in the world; if I did I’m guilty of mis-typing.
What I thought I said–and what I clarified at least a couple of times–is that people who are considered to be “in poverty” in the US are actually living quite well compared to people in other parts of the world who are in poverty.
I’m sure you’ll agree–having cable, color tv etc–is certainly better than the poorest people in a country like India.
Further, I have to question the methodologies of the studies and rankings.

Todd–
As far as being paralyzed by spending too much time looking for facts, yes, I believe you can.
Wasn’t it Patton who said something to the effect of ‘a good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed later’?
Apologies for the imperfect quote.

[quote]

“The simplest explanation is usually the best.”

In the final version, the word explanation implies that the explanation must be COMPLETE. The writer of the article intentionally used the most succinct definition possible in order to prove a point.

Todd[/quote]

An explanation is a statement that points to causes (Wilkpedia). How do you arrive at the idea that it must be complete?
One of the other examples of it in use that was in the text had to do with a hospital where there were a large number of babies dying at birth, as well as their mothers.
Person in question chased it to the only thing they had in common, which was that the doctors weren’t washing their hands often enough. This was before any understanding of germs.
Todd, I think you’re way off here; you think I’m way off. This one is going to have to be left alone, I think.

Why do you always try to push crazy statements into other peoples mouths?

If I thought money was evil I’d say so. What I have said, but not clearly enough, is that money is not the way we should decide if something is right or wrong.

Similarly, the fact that a service is desired or in demand does not say that much about whether or not the service is appropriate.

For example, selling drugs to children is a large money making service that goes on every day. I don’t think anyone with a rational mind will try to support the value of the service based on a niche being filled and a large segment of the population accessing it.

I simply find the common use of money or money making ability as a supportive argument on behalf of some republicans to be a curious thing.

And yes, if you take the time to think about it, that is what my “cryptic” comment implied. Certainly not that money or the ability to make money should be judged as bad in some way.

Silly rabbit. People often do things that are bad for them, they watch things that are not true, they believe what they wish in the face of evidence, so why should they not spend money on things unwisely?

In plainer english, if you still aren’t following, the fact a lot of people watch a certain type of broadcast does not have a lot to say about the fairness or appropriateness of the content. Even if the companies making the broadcasts earn a lot of revenue from their viewership.

This works for all broadcasting concerns, before you think it is some type of biased statement.

Do you need any more spoon feeding, or have you got the gist?