I’m glad to see everyone has put their political views and ideologys aside to remember and honor those AMERICANS(NOT JUST NEW YORKERS DIED…LIFTIFUCKITUPICUS)that lost their lives. This thread is how terrorism survives.PEACE.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
I’m glad to see everyone has put their political views and ideologys aside to remember and honor those AMERICANS(NOT JUST NEW YORKERS DIED…LIFTIFUCKITUPICUS)that lost their lives. This thread is how terrorism survives.PEACE.
[/quote]
Believe me…terrorism is alive and well but not because of my opinions.
We don’t need to be patronized like little brown-shirt stazis to honor and remember the dead–that heinous event is indelibly marred in our dreams.
What you don’t seem to understand is we are tired of being told to fear that at any minute we may be killed by lunatics. This is not healthy. The State just promotes its pro-State propaganda by telling us what heroes we lost of our public servants just so the can exalt their supremacy–yet seem to forget the unnamed, unburied hundreds who were left to rot.
Why not just remember everyday and not bring it up once a year for the rest of our lives–is that too much to ask of our media?
Shit, NBC re-broadcasted the Today Show from 9/11–its like they are playing terrorist psychological games. Who in their right minds would want to relive that day but the people who wanted it to happen?
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
Firstly, check out the link to the book on the intelligence failures – that is what they were, intelligence failures. The government should be held accountable for failures. The structural problems need to be changed. Bureaucrats need to be fired. Politicians need to be taken to task.
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How exactly does one take a politician to task? Once they are in its too late. We have to wait two years and as many as six to fire them and then just replace them with another establishment candidate because people are too lazy to get politically involved. Believe it or not, the majority of people don’t sit at their computer discussing politics.
How can the government be held accountable for anything it does? We can put politicians in jail but that doesn’t fix the system. Our government is a systemic failure because we have strayed from the Constitution–which defines our rule of law.[/quote]
True enough. The only way to take politicians to task for failing is to vote them out. I completely agree that the power of the government is out of control. I’d start by repealing Wickard v. Filburn and that whole line of cases, along with repealing the 16th and 17th Amendments, recognizing that Congressional delegation of “rulemaking” is an unconstitutional delegation of legislative authority, passing a new term-limit amendment for all elected federal offices, instituting another check on judicial power and defining “life tenure” for federal judges as the earlier of death or 20 years, whichever came first. Unfortunately, I’m not in charge…
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
True enough. The only way to take politicians to task for failing is to vote them out. I completely agree that the power of the government is out of control. I’d start by repealing Wickard v. Filburn and that whole line of cases, along with repealing the 16th and 17th Amendments, recognizing that Congressional delegation of “rulemaking” is an unconstitutional delegation of legislative authority, passing a new term-limit amendment for all elected federal offices, instituting another check on judicial power and defining “life tenure” for federal judges as the earlier of death or 20 years, whichever came first. Unfortunately, I’m not in charge…[/quote]
1913 wasn’t a good year for this country.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
I’m glad to see everyone has put their political views and ideologys aside to remember and honor those AMERICANS(NOT JUST NEW YORKERS DIED…LIFTIFUCKITUPICUS)that lost their lives. This thread is how terrorism survives.PEACE.
Believe me…terrorism is alive and well but not because of my opinions.
We don’t need to be patronized like little brown-shirt stazis to honor and remember the dead–that heinous event is indelibly marred in our dreams.
What you don’t seem to understand is we are tired of being told to fear that at any minute we may be killed by lunatics. This is not healthy. The State just promotes its pro-State propaganda by telling us what heroes we lost of our public servants just so the can exalt their supremacy–yet seem to forget the unnamed, unburied hundreds who were left to rot.
Why not just remember everyday and not bring it up once a year for the rest of our lives–is that too much to ask of our media?
Shit, NBC re-broadcasted the Today Show from 9/11–its like they are playing terrorist psychological games. Who in their right minds would want to relive that day but the people who wanted it to happen?[/quote]
Just as I figured.You can tell what I do and don’t understand from my short straight to the point post? I understand your argument for the terrorists wanting us to remember this day. We all have moved on,but do you expect people to forget? Traumatic events tend carry for a long time regardless of what the media does. Look around you! There’s so many things that were affected by 9/11 and are reminders everyday. Stop over rationalizing.
You are you to tell us that we shouldn’t mourn or remember? How do you know that nobody here lost family or friends in 9/11? Are we truly a nation living in fear? What breeds fear? Answer those questions.
Anyways,the point of my post…that you obviously didn’t comprehend…was that terrorist(Al-Qaeda) want us as a country to be divided…they want chaos among the people of their enemy…one of the factors of how terrorism survives…not your “fearful” opinions…ironic.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
You are one twisted individual. I am happy to not inhabit the same swamp fever of disturbed reality that it would take to believe this horse manure.
I’m glad you think that the internal workings of the Pakistani government give you some support for your fantasies. The internal problems of the Pakistani government - particularly its intelligence forces - are well known. This general was the head of that security force. Also known is that the Pakistani security forces have actively supported al Queda and the Taliban, and that they were involved in selling nuclear secrets to Iran and North Korea. It’s also known that Mushareff has had several attempts on his life, and that he believes that the Pakistani security forces were involves in at least some of them.
But if you believe that, despite all logic and probability, the President could order some other outcome to occur inside Pakistan - by ordering Mushareff, who holds power by a thread, perhaps? - it’s par for the course.
[/quote]
Yes, thats all fine and dandy – I suppose the tough terrorism talk, stun belts and torture only extends to semi-retarded people like Zacarias Moussaoui
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/280306_b_belt.htm
…since the Pakistani General hasn’t been arrested, tortured and put on trial by Pakistan or the US as far as anyone has heard.
A direct financial link to the hijackers is having breakfast with the soon to be head of the CIA and a republican senator on 9/11, and is NEVER brought to justice – yet somehow in your mind, I’m the “twisted individual” for repeating the actual facts. Its what they DIDN’T do with the General that ultimately tells the story.
Gosh, how could the government ever get away with such a thing?
Bush Opposes 9/11 Query Panel
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/attack/main509096.shtml
Its no wonder they didn’t want a true, independent investigation of 9/11 – it would have exposed the government lies even worse than the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation did…
[i]"The self-published report is the product of six years of privately-funded investigation by the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee led by former Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key. The 550-page work exposes in minute detail, based upon the evidence, that the federal government began obstructing the bomb investigation almost immediately after the Ryder truck blew up…
“How can we trust anything the federal government has to say about Sept. 11 when court documents and witness statements prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the feds have been lying to the world about what really happened at OK City?” Harkins asked."[/i]
http://69.28.73.17/okcreport.html
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
Well you have excercised your right to give up and quit trying. Nihlism at it’s finest.
The rest of us, especially those who work in NYC will just stay vigilant.
What exactly are we trying for? What are the goals – to make people less free and to inconvenience the rest of the world so a few of the power-elite in NYC can feel safe? Give me a break.
We certainly aren’t going to rid the world of people who hate us by continuing to breed hatred. Why don’t we focus on that first?[/quote]
Bacause they will hate us anyway. Radicals are like that.
Someone looking thru my knapsack at the subway entrance is not an infringement on my rights. They aren’t confiscating books and political material and as long as I don’t have a bomb in my pack I can go on my way. All in all I really don’t want someone riding next to me with 25ibs of C4 and I couldn’t give a fuck if they feel it is their right to do so. The constitution isn’t a suicide pact.
The NYPD isn’t investigating St. Lukes Bible study class on Thursday nights they are investigating radical storefront mosques in Queens because that’s where the trouble is brewing. If they don’t find anything nothing happens. They aren’t arrested anyway. If they do find something, how are my rights being infringed if the are arrested before they blow up the F train?
[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Do you havew a secret Lixy…who did it…the Jews? GWB?
I’d put my money on a bunch of angry Arabs, but it’s not like any of you can prove that Ben Laden did it, now can you?
Of course, there’s the remote possibility that somebody in the administration knew about it and let the operation roll nonetheless. And Jewish Zionists aren’t stupid to risk fucking up the status quo that’s largely in their favor just to trigger a global “war on terror”.
My point stands that Saudi manpower and money is what makes Al-Qaeda run. If you need any proof of that, then you haven’t been paying the least bit of attention over the last decade.[/quote]
Bin Laden didn’t do it. He’s still alive. His organization did it. Al-Qaeda I’m sure you are familiar with them. It is well established he ordered the attack beyond a reasonable doubt. Not enough for a radical like yourself but more then enough for a prudent man.
Whether the “Arabs” were angry is irrelavant. But yes they were all Arabs and all Muslim.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Bacause they will hate us anyway. Radicals are like that.[/quote]
True. However, having to deal with a finite number of radicals with virtually no grassroots support beats creating new radicals by the day.
Take Iraqis for example. If you weren’t occupying their land, they would have never tolerated the presence of Al-Qaeda.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Bin Laden didn’t do it. He’s still alive. His organization did it. Al-Qaeda I’m sure you are familiar with them. It is well established he ordered the attack beyond a reasonable doubt. Not enough for a radical like yourself but more then enough for a prudent man. [/quote]
It is well established alright. But BigFlamer can’t prove it, now can he? Basically, I presented him with an exercise in futility to make a point.
Once more, I have to point out that 15 out of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.
[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Bacause they will hate us anyway. Radicals are like that.
True. However, having to deal with a finite number of radicals with virtually no grassroots support beats creating new radicals by the day.
Take Iraqis for example. If you weren’t occupying their land, they would have never tolerated the presence of Al-Qaeda.[/quote]
They had plenty of support. Some of it by governments. Now they are an international hot potato. Your friends the Saudi’s rounded up a bunch of them. Even the Euro’s started to crack down. Of course the first and second teams of Al-Qaeda are dead now and we are dealing with the scrubs but that’s another matter.
They aren’t tolerating Al-Queda now very well either as you may have heard.
[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Bin Laden didn’t do it. He’s still alive. His organization did it. Al-Qaeda I’m sure you are familiar with them. It is well established he ordered the attack beyond a reasonable doubt. Not enough for a radical like yourself but more then enough for a prudent man.
It is well established alright. But BigFlamer can’t prove it, now can he? Basically, I presented him with an exercise in futility to make a point.
Whether the “Arabs” were angry is irrelavant. But yes they were all Arabs and all Muslim.
Once more, I have to point out that 15 out of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.[/quote]
Why would he have to? Your point is silly. Don’t confuse someone getting bored with you with throwing in the towel.
Why do you have to point out again that they were Saudi’s?Is someone questioning that fact? We have a strategic interest in their country but I don’t trust them anymore then any other Middle Eastern country.
What comes after would be far worse then what they have now.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
You are you to tell us that we shouldn’t mourn or remember? How do you know that nobody here lost family or friends in 9/11? Are we truly a nation living in fear? What breeds fear? Answer those questions.
[/quote]
Are people capable of remembering on their own without any propaganda from the state? I hope so. I don’t want to infringe my beliefs on other people’s rights–I could just do with out a reminder that I could die at any moment from the state and the state run media.
Mourning should be a personal event–not televised. Our sense of privacy has been stripped from us. Nothing we do is free from watchful eyes anymore.
[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Bin Laden didn’t do it. He’s still alive. His organization did it. Al-Qaeda I’m sure you are familiar with them. It is well established he ordered the attack beyond a reasonable doubt. Not enough for a radical like yourself but more then enough for a prudent man.
It is well established alright. But BigFlamer can’t prove it, now can he? Basically, I presented him with an exercise in futility to make a point.
Whether the “Arabs” were angry is irrelavant. But yes they were all Arabs and all Muslim.
Once more, I have to point out that 15 out of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.[/quote]
What proof of bin Laden’s involvement?
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/binladen.evidence/
Bin Laden says he wasn’t behind attacks
Sept 17, 2001
DOHA, Qatar (CNN) – Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week’s terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands…
Immediately after the attacks that demolished the World Trade Center’s landmark twin towers and seriously damaged the Pentagon, officials of Afghanistan’s ruling Taliban said they doubted bin Laden could have been involved in carrying out the actions.
http://tinyurl.com/bf3r8
Could the Bin Laden video be a fake?
BBC
December, 2001
Washington calls it the “smoking gun” that puts Bin Laden’s guilt beyond doubt, but many in the Arab world believe the home video of the al-Qaeda chief is a fake. Could it be?
Top Bin Laden Expert: Confession Fake
Is the famous “confession video” genuine? Despite Bush’s insistence that the tape is authentic, America’s top academic Bin Laden expert has finally gone on the record, joining numerous other experts.
“It’s bogus,” says Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University’s Religious Studies program…
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/190207Laden.htm
FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”
On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
http://www.911truth.org/article_for_printing.php?story=20060611155014535
Five Degrees Of Osama
February 3, 2003
(FORTUNE Magazine) - In December, President Bush named Thomas Kean, the former Republican governor of New Jersey, chairman of an independent commission examining the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. But FORTUNE has learned that Kean appears to have a bizarre link to the very terror network he’s investigating–al Qaeda.
Here’s how the dots connect: Kean is a director of petroleum giant Amerada Hess…
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2003/02/03/336448/
[quote]hedo wrote:
Someone looking thru my knapsack at the subway entrance is not an infringement on my rights. They aren’t confiscating books and political material and as long as I don’t have a bomb in my pack I can go on my way.
[/quote]
Put a copy of the Constitution in your knapsack and see what happens.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
You are one twisted individual. I am happy to not inhabit the same swamp fever of disturbed reality that it would take to believe this horse manure.
I’m glad you think that the internal workings of the Pakistani government give you some support for your fantasies. The internal problems of the Pakistani government - particularly its intelligence forces - are well known. This general was the head of that security force. Also known is that the Pakistani security forces have actively supported al Queda and the Taliban, and that they were involved in selling nuclear secrets to Iran and North Korea. It’s also known that Mushareff has had several attempts on his life, and that he believes that the Pakistani security forces were involves in at least some of them.
But if you believe that, despite all logic and probability, the President could order some other outcome to occur inside Pakistan - by ordering Mushareff, who holds power by a thread, perhaps? - it’s par for the course.
JustTheFacts wrote:
Yes, thats all fine and dandy – I suppose the tough terrorism talk, stun belts and torture only extends to semi-retarded people like Zacarias Moussaoui
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/280306_b_belt.htm[/quote]
This is irrelevant.
So is the fact that Fidel Castro is apparently a 9/11 Truther too: US Govt mislead Americans over Sept 11 attacks: Castro - ABC News
See, make important sounding but illogical statement, post link – I think I’m learning the JTF posting pattern…
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
…since the Pakistani General hasn’t been arrested, tortured and put on trial by Pakistan or the US as far as anyone has heard.
A direct financial link to the hijackers is having breakfast with the soon to be head of the CIA and a republican senator on 9/11, and is NEVER brought to justice – yet somehow in your mind, I’m the “twisted individual” for repeating the actual facts. Its what they DIDN’T do with the General that ultimately tells the story.
Gosh, how could the government ever get away with such a thing?[/quote]
Again, the internal functioning (or lack thereof) of Pakistan’s government proves – or even implies – what? Nothing related to the point.
As I said earlier, Musharraf is doing all he can to hold on in Pakistan ( Poll: Bin Laden tops Musharraf in Pakistan - CNN.com )-- yet because he doesn’t take on a very powerful constituency, that is a point of proof that the U.S. government staged 9/11? Please.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Bush Opposes 9/11 Query Panel
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/attack/main509096.shtml
Its no wonder they didn’t want a true, independent investigation of 9/11 – it would have exposed the government lies even worse than the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation did…
[i]"The self-published report is the product of six years of privately-funded investigation by the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee led by former Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key. The 550-page work exposes in minute detail, based upon the evidence, that the federal government began obstructing the bomb investigation almost immediately after the Ryder truck blew up…
“How can we trust anything the federal government has to say about Sept. 11 when court documents and witness statements prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the feds have been lying to the world about what really happened at OK City?” Harkins asked."[/i]
http://69.28.73.17/okcreport.html[/quote]
So, Bush is against releasing top-secret information to a panel - perhaps he doesn’t like the idea of detailed information about the U.S.'s anti-terrorism defenses and other such info getting out (because no one ever leaks these things…) -
so therefore it must have been a massive, cross-party, cross-branch and cross-agency governmental conspiracy. Just like the failure to release video tape that could have shown sensitive defense info on the Pentagon, like the placement of hidden SAMs and other such things, was proof of the same. Do you see any holes there?
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
hedo wrote:
Someone looking thru my knapsack at the subway entrance is not an infringement on my rights. They aren’t confiscating books and political material and as long as I don’t have a bomb in my pack I can go on my way.
Put a copy of the Constitution in your knapsack and see what happens.[/quote]
Absolutely nothing would happen. What an idiotic statement.
Don’t bother trying to ride the subway in NYC anyway…too many Jews for you I’m sure.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Conspiracy theories rest on the premise that the government is super-competent, and some number of higher ups managed to be competent enough to go across agencies and parties to coordinate something of this magnitude – and then have kept it all under wraps, with not one credible person coming forward and claiming to have been part of the whole cover up, which would necessarily have had to involve many people at various levels of government.
[/quote]
Tell me this.
Why is that when someone says maybe the government orchestrated the attacks, someone counters and says it would have taken hundreds of people to carry out such a thing. YET, these people believe that NINETEEN foreigners with extremely limited knowledge of 757 knowhow executed the attack almost flawlessly.
Stupid much?
Deviating from the flight path and plotting a new course hundreds of miles away? Quite advanced piloting for 19 cave dwellers, don’t ya think?
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
You are one twisted individual. I am happy to not inhabit the same swamp fever of disturbed reality that it would take to believe this horse manure.
I’m glad you think that the internal workings of the Pakistani government give you some support for your fantasies. The internal problems of the Pakistani government - particularly its intelligence forces - are well known. This general was the head of that security force. Also known is that the Pakistani security forces have actively supported al Queda and the Taliban, and that they were involved in selling nuclear secrets to Iran and North Korea. It’s also known that Mushareff has had several attempts on his life, and that he believes that the Pakistani security forces were involves in at least some of them.
But if you believe that, despite all logic and probability, the President could order some other outcome to occur inside Pakistan - by ordering Mushareff, who holds power by a thread, perhaps? - it’s par for the course.
JustTheFacts wrote:
Yes, thats all fine and dandy – I suppose the tough terrorism talk, stun belts and torture only extends to semi-retarded people like Zacarias Moussaoui
This is irrelevant.
So is the fact that Fidel Castro is apparently a 9/11 Truther too:
See, make important sounding but illogical statement, post link – I think I’m learning the JTF posting pattern…
JustTheFacts wrote:
…since the Pakistani General hasn’t been arrested, tortured and put on trial by Pakistan or the US as far as anyone has heard.
A direct financial link to the hijackers is having breakfast with the soon to be head of the CIA and a republican senator on 9/11, and is NEVER brought to justice – yet somehow in your mind, I’m the “twisted individual” for repeating the actual facts. Its what they DIDN’T do with the General that ultimately tells the story.
Gosh, how could the government ever get away with such a thing?
Again, the internal functioning (or lack thereof) of Pakistan’s government proves – or even implies – what? Nothing related to the point.
As I said earlier, Musharraf is doing all he can to hold on in Pakistan – yet because he doesn’t take on a very powerful constituency, that is a point of proof that the U.S. government staged 9/11? Please.[/quote]
Man your really trying to cloud the issue – the internal functioning of Pakistan’s government has little relevancy to my point.
This isn’t rocket science – Did Goss meet with the Pakistani General on 9/11? YES. Did the General have $100,000 wired to Atta? YES. Has the US arrested or demanded that Pakistan turn him over to be tried on terrorism charges? NO. THEN WHY NOT!?
Its a very simple question/concept for anyone still capable of critical thought.
Republican tough talk on terrorism except when confronted with your own red, white and blue elephant in the room.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Bush Opposes 9/11 Query Panel
Its no wonder they didn’t want a true, independent investigation of 9/11 – it would have exposed the government lies even worse than the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation did…
So, Bush is against releasing top-secret information to a panel - perhaps he doesn’t like the idea of detailed information about the U.S.'s anti-terrorism defenses and other such info getting out (because no one ever leaks these things…) -
so therefore it must have been a massive, cross-party, cross-branch and cross-agency governmental conspiracy. Just like the failure to release video tape that could have shown sensitive defense info on the Pentagon, like the placement of hidden SAMs and other such things, was proof of the same. Do you see any holes there?[/quote]
Ah, SECRECY – another convenient use for 9/11.
WHAT detailed information about the U.S.'s anti-terrorism defenses (before 9/11) would he want to keep secret!? Isn’t that the point – there apparently wasn’t ANY. They already knew the “plane” making a beeline for DC that eventually hit the Pentagon was hijacked – so what does the unreleased video show? The LACK OF defenses around the Pentagon for one.
A lumbering, hijacked jet flew for two hours over the most heavily guarded air space in the WORLD and slammed into the front door of DOD’s headquarters! From where I’m at in PA, I could have DRIVEN to the Pentagon after the first plane hit the towers and been there in time to watch it happen.
We’re supposed to believe that 19 half-wit Arab “hijackers” spent five some odd years of meticulous training and millions of dollars (?) training for a mission who’s success relied solely… solely on our government’s inefficient bureaucracy!? Please.
(9/11 planner: “Hey, I got brilliant idea! We train to fly airplane for 5 years, probably spend millions – then we hijack airliner full of passengers with ahhh, box cutters lets say – then make u-turn and fly wrong way over Langley Airforce Base and crash into Pentagon. I figure we have two hour window, tops. It perfect plan!”)
Next they’ll break into Fort Knox with shovels – seriously, who would suspect that? After all, that IS the rational for 9/11.