[quote]Claudan wrote:
We are clear on the short-term effects of marijuana DB…
happy hungry sleepy. [/quote]
Sounds like less fights…and less Cops episodes.
" there is a much larger amount of money to be saved by growing on your own."
If you were allowed to grow outside. Which will not happen anywhere people may smell it. Indoors when adding up set up costs, electricity, seeds, nutrients, replacing of odor controllers, and your time you will not be saving much. It would probably be cheaper to buy. A lot people who grow at home make up for it by selling small amounts to friends. Not to mention people are lazy and do not know what they are doing so, if trying to grow indoors will go for auto feminized seeds that are like 5x the cost of mixed bags adding that much more to total costs.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
On top of that, legalization will entail one of two possible scenarios:
a) it becomes legal to grow weed for personal consumption>>this would be the death knell for the legal market. It’s easy to grow and the ONLY deterrent to people who would like to grow but don’t is the legality factor. Allow people to grow it themselves, and they will NEVER pay premium prices for weed[/quote]
It takes a lot of money to grow these plants and a lot of effort. You seem to think all of third ward Houston will turn into a drive through green house.
I seriously doubt everyone is willing to spend a few extra hundred on a light bill either.
I don’t think you have been around that culture much…and I am guessing you see alcohol as some other entity when they should be treated the same.[/quote]
Professor, I’ve been around the weed culture more than I care to admit. I’ve grown it in large quantities, I’ve sold it in large quantities, and I’ve smoked my weight in it ten times over. If there is one black market I DO know, it is the market for weed. I’m a fucking expert on the nuances of this particular market, the distributors, the producers, the consumers, all of them.
A few hundred bucks is NOTHING compared to the long-term savings to be had. Once you sell enough weed to pay the initial startup costs, the potential earnings from selling weed, not to mention smoking it for free instead of paying artificially-increased prices, severely dwarfs a fucking electricity bill.
You’re right. It takes a lot of effort to grow weed…compared to growing other plants. But the fact is that it doesn’t take a lot of effort in general. You get some high-quality soil, some lights, cordon off part of your room or your closet or your garage, get your hands on some nice clones, get a pH test kit for soil and some pH sticks to balance the thing out, soak a couple Swishers in water for some all-natural pesticides, put a small oscillating fan on the plants to mimic wind and help grow a strong stalk, water them when necessary, and that’s about it. You’ll have to flush the soil of nitrogen, most likely, and of course you’ll have to fuck around with different combinations of nutrients and that sort of thing. But that is part of the fun of growing weed and not really a burden at all. It’s quite a fascinating process and can be very intriguing to go through. It’s nowhere near as complicated or as precise as brewing your own beer.
Besides, while outdoor weed is generally not on the same level as indoor weed, it is FAR easier and cheaper to grow. And as I demonstrated earlier, it’s actually the demand for CHEAP weed, not GOOD weed that drives the market. And believe me, while Houston won’t be overrun by weed growers, smaller cities like where I used to live WILL be. Once outdoor growing was legalized there (for “medicinal” purposes only) there was literally so much weed growing that half the town reeked of fresh bud for most of September and October. It became the overwhelmingly largest issue the city council dealt with each meeting.
And what did this do to the prices around town? They plummeted. In one year, weed went from about $250 an ounce to almost half that. An 1/8 was about $20 bucks. At the same time, there were three dispensaries that had been open for about 2 years. So, did these dispensaries crush the homegrowers who were selling an admittedly inferior product for a far lower price? No, quite the contrary.
Homegrowers were incentivized to compete directly with dispensaries, since they weren’t breaking the law by growing and only by selling, which is something that had to be policed like always (thereby eroding part of the fiscal viability argument). They were also in position to drastically undercut the prices of the dispensaries. If demand for the homegrown weed had gone down significantly, like it would if people primarily purchased the higher-quality shit they offered, the price of homegrown would have gone up. Economics 101. But it didn’t go up, it plummeted. And the last I heard, only one of those dispensaries lasted. The other two simply couldn’t compete with the black market AND each other.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
There is a LOT of money spent discouraging people from drinking.[/quote]
Dude, I just choked…and spit up my Corona all over the keyboard.
[quote]
It just doesn’t come in the form of massive public announcement campaigns. Besides, it evades the main crux of my point. Any successful business model in this sort of arena would include advertising geared toward attracting people to their product. [/quote]
and?
[quote]
If the government is going to legalize weed with the (at least partial) motivation that tax revenue could help fix some fiscal messes, fine. But do you really see the government then turning around and essentially advertising that product? No, of course not.[/quote]
No, I see tons of small businesses advertising that product because as soon as you legalize it, it will open a huge market for other safer ways for it to entered into the system than smoking it. This is capitalism at its finest.
[quote]
If anything, it will be quite the opposite. I could easily see the government legalizing weed and then try to hedge their bets by starting a large advertising campaign that at least serves to educate people about the effects of weed (which we actually know extremely little about).[/quote]
Wow. Just turn on a rap song to find that out.
[quote]
It wouldn’t be very different from the anti-drug campaigns of the 1980’s, only more ambiguous about whether we should be smoking weed or not. And just like with cigarettes and alcohol, there will be restrictions on how and where weed stores and distributors do their advertising.
If the entire legitimacy of the endeavor relies on luring people away from the black market and toward the legal market, this isn’t a good plan to do so. [/quote]
Cigarettes kill.
Weed is actually showing to decrease the risk of cancer.
Legalizing it means every inventor and small business person with a vaporizer or edible intake provider will see money trees.[/quote]
Your other points are nonsensical and reek of avoidance, as always, but your last point here is a legitimate one. When there is a large demand for gold, a good business to get into is selling shovels and picks.
However, this simply does not represent a very large chunk of anything. You’re right, people will want to get in on the ground floor of a burgeoning industry. But it will be strictly small businesses that do so, and small businesses simply do NOT drive the economy. Big business does, and no big business is going to get into that industry until it is legalized on a federal level. Otherwise, their investments are literally at the mercy of the whims of whoever the President happens to be at the time. If the GOP takes the White House in 2016, there is a good chance all of this becomes a moot point.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
" there is a much larger amount of money to be saved by growing on your own."
If you were allowed to grow outside. Which will not happen anywhere people may smell it.[/quote]
This is patently false. I know of plenty of towns that have legalized outdoor growing under the pretense of “medicinal” use. I used to live in Chico, CA, and the town is/was a perfect case study. There were at least 5 different people growing on my street, all of whom had at least 8 plants going at once. The half of town close to Chico State’s campus smelled like weed everywhere you went. It was certainly an issue and the city council did everything it could to eliminate outdoor growing.
But the fact that it IS legal to grow in California under certain circumstances made it extremely difficult to do anything but a limit on the amount of plants that could be grown at once. Despite all of their best efforts (and this is a primarily conservative town, mind you), the city council could never eliminate outdoor growing entirely. There simply isn’t a legal pretense to do so.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
You’re right. It takes a lot of effort to grow weed…compared to growing other plants. But the fact is that it doesn’t take a lot of effort in general. You get some high-quality soil, some lights, cordon off part of your room or your closet or your garage, get your hands on some nice clones, get a pH test kit for soil and some pH sticks to balance the thing out, soak a couple Swishers in water for some all-natural pesticides, put a small oscillating fan on the plants to mimic wind and help grow a strong stalk, water them when necessary, and that’s about it. You’ll have to flush the soil of nitrogen, most likely, and of course you’ll have to fuck around with different combinations of nutrients and that sort of thing. But that is part of the fun of growing weed and not really a burden at all. It’s quite a fascinating process and can be very intriguing to go through. It’s nowhere near as complicated or as precise as brewing your own beer.
[/quote]
brb…home depot run.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If the GOP takes the White House in 2016, there is a good chance all of this becomes a moot point.[/quote]
Agreed, particular if they run some RINO douchebag like they have the last couple times.
But I wouldn’t count out a Dem being bought off by oil, cotton or pharma either. Shit, Wall Street bought “hope & change” for relatively cheap money.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
You’re right. It takes a lot of effort to grow weed…compared to growing other plants. But the fact is that it doesn’t take a lot of effort in general. You get some high-quality soil, some lights, cordon off part of your room or your closet or your garage, get your hands on some nice clones, get a pH test kit for soil and some pH sticks to balance the thing out, soak a couple Swishers in water for some all-natural pesticides, put a small oscillating fan on the plants to mimic wind and help grow a strong stalk, water them when necessary, and that’s about it. You’ll have to flush the soil of nitrogen, most likely, and of course you’ll have to fuck around with different combinations of nutrients and that sort of thing. But that is part of the fun of growing weed and not really a burden at all. It’s quite a fascinating process and can be very intriguing to go through. It’s nowhere near as complicated or as precise as brewing your own beer.
[/quote]
brb…home depot run.
[/quote]
If you get your hands on some clones, you can easily be up and running within 24 hours. I don’t know how handy you are with tools and all that, but setting up something like this is dirt cheap over the long haul and simple as fuck. If you get really good clones (which are about $50 each at the most) and are on top of your nutrient and pH levels, particularly the nitrogen levels, the only thing to worry about is keeping pests away. And this is easy as fuck when you grow indoors. There are all sorts of ways to come up with all-natural pesticides, and if you get high-quality soil and good nutrients, you can largely eliminate the need for fertilizers.
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Good lord did anyone see the news where they ran a story how 3 people died of weed overdoses within the first 2 days of legalization in Colorado? Sad thing is I’m sure my parents and grandparents were ignorant enough to believe it…[/quote]
Bullshit… I’ve tried it a few times years back. It can’t be done.
Rob[/quote]
When I was younger and somewhat dumber we used to get high as all hell at a friends place. One day his mom started coming into the shack we toked up in and scared the hell out of all of us so we bolted in our cars. That’s about the only time on weed I’ve ever been in a situation where I was really being dangerous- I kept thinking everything shiny on the side of the road was a cop and I’d try and steer my car as far away from it as possible.
In reality I was probably only moving over a few inches and only going 3mph but it made me realize that me, on weed, in a car, is a bad idea. The lady at McDonalds hooked me up with extra mcnuggets when I got there eventually though so it ended up being a good idea at the time.
Now, if I were to smoke, I’d probably just sink into my couch and kill some prostitutes in GTA.
I haven’t paid any attention to the legalizing of it. What’s the age limit for it?[/quote]
The quality of what’s been around in the last 10 years or less is outstanding compared to what was around 30 years ago. So nowadays… I’d think twice about driving after doing some of today’s potent KW.
Rob[/quote]
When I was 12 years old, 36 years ago, everyone wanted to get Columbian Gold. You could get high off just half a joint! By the time I was in college ~30 years ago, it took one hit to get high off most the pot available. Are you saying the one hit stuff you could get 30 years ago is junk compared to what’s available now?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
You’re right. It takes a lot of effort to grow weed…compared to growing other plants. But the fact is that it doesn’t take a lot of effort in general. You get some high-quality soil, some lights, cordon off part of your room or your closet or your garage, get your hands on some nice clones, get a pH test kit for soil and some pH sticks to balance the thing out, soak a couple Swishers in water for some all-natural pesticides, put a small oscillating fan on the plants to mimic wind and help grow a strong stalk, water them when necessary, and that’s about it. You’ll have to flush the soil of nitrogen, most likely, and of course you’ll have to fuck around with different combinations of nutrients and that sort of thing. But that is part of the fun of growing weed and not really a burden at all. It’s quite a fascinating process and can be very intriguing to go through. It’s nowhere near as complicated or as precise as brewing your own beer.
[/quote]
brb…home depot run.
[/quote]
If you get your hands on some clones, you can easily be up and running within 24 hours. I don’t know how handy you are with tools and all that, but setting up something like this is dirt cheap over the long haul and simple as fuck. If you get really good clones (which are about $50 each at the most) and are on top of your nutrient and pH levels, particularly the nitrogen levels, the only thing to worry about is keeping pests away. And this is easy as fuck when you grow indoors. There are all sorts of ways to come up with all-natural pesticides, and if you get high-quality soil and good nutrients, you can largely eliminate the need for fertilizers.[/quote]
Pee is fantastic low budget fertilizer.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Good lord did anyone see the news where they ran a story how 3 people died of weed overdoses within the first 2 days of legalization in Colorado? Sad thing is I’m sure my parents and grandparents were ignorant enough to believe it…[/quote]
Bullshit… I’ve tried it a few times years back. It can’t be done.
Rob[/quote]
When I was younger and somewhat dumber we used to get high as all hell at a friends place. One day his mom started coming into the shack we toked up in and scared the hell out of all of us so we bolted in our cars. That’s about the only time on weed I’ve ever been in a situation where I was really being dangerous- I kept thinking everything shiny on the side of the road was a cop and I’d try and steer my car as far away from it as possible.
In reality I was probably only moving over a few inches and only going 3mph but it made me realize that me, on weed, in a car, is a bad idea. The lady at McDonalds hooked me up with extra mcnuggets when I got there eventually though so it ended up being a good idea at the time.
Now, if I were to smoke, I’d probably just sink into my couch and kill some prostitutes in GTA.
I haven’t paid any attention to the legalizing of it. What’s the age limit for it?[/quote]
The quality of what’s been around in the last 10 years or less is outstanding compared to what was around 30 years ago. So nowadays… I’d think twice about driving after doing some of today’s potent KW.
Rob[/quote]
When I was 12 years old, 36 years ago, everyone wanted to get Columbian Gold. You could get high off just half a joint! By the time I was in college ~30 years ago, it took one hit to get high off most the pot available. Are you saying the one hit stuff you could get 30 years ago is junk compared to what’s available now?
[/quote]
Yes. The old stuff isn’t even in the same league as the new stuff.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Good lord did anyone see the news where they ran a story how 3 people died of weed overdoses within the first 2 days of legalization in Colorado? Sad thing is I’m sure my parents and grandparents were ignorant enough to believe it…[/quote]
Bullshit… I’ve tried it a few times years back. It can’t be done.
Rob[/quote]
When I was younger and somewhat dumber we used to get high as all hell at a friends place. One day his mom started coming into the shack we toked up in and scared the hell out of all of us so we bolted in our cars. That’s about the only time on weed I’ve ever been in a situation where I was really being dangerous- I kept thinking everything shiny on the side of the road was a cop and I’d try and steer my car as far away from it as possible.
In reality I was probably only moving over a few inches and only going 3mph but it made me realize that me, on weed, in a car, is a bad idea. The lady at McDonalds hooked me up with extra mcnuggets when I got there eventually though so it ended up being a good idea at the time.
Now, if I were to smoke, I’d probably just sink into my couch and kill some prostitutes in GTA.
I haven’t paid any attention to the legalizing of it. What’s the age limit for it?[/quote]
The quality of what’s been around in the last 10 years or less is outstanding compared to what was around 30 years ago. So nowadays… I’d think twice about driving after doing some of today’s potent KW.
Rob[/quote]
When I was 12 years old, 36 years ago, everyone wanted to get Columbian Gold. You could get high off just half a joint! By the time I was in college ~30 years ago, it took one hit to get high off most the pot available. Are you saying the one hit stuff you could get 30 years ago is junk compared to what’s available now?
[/quote]
Weed in the 1970s hit a brick law with the Rockefeller laws. On the east coast in 1976, it had all but dried up. It was that scarce for a while, but still relatively cheap at $40 an oz. Really there wasn’t much choice, we had Columbian, Michouacan (sp?), this rainbow weed (not that bad) and Acapulco Gold. And of course Mexican dirt weed and homegrown.
By 1981, people started bringing it through the Caribbean and it started coming in from the west coast. Maui Wowie was big, any sinsemilla was superior, at superior prices. It was easy to grow too, I’ve seen some decent backyard crops. People out east from me that had greenhouses and a little know-how were major growers. They would give away the trimmings (and harvest just the buds) by the garbage bag full and it got you high.
In Hawaii in 1987, I could have bought as much as I wanted for a good price. The locals did pretty well selling for a living. Maui was full of plantations and they were not shy about selling to tourists.
Whatever starts out on the west coast winds up on the east coast. The strains that were grown in the Emerald Triangle found their way east, for sale and the technology to grow as well. Inferior weed really doesn’t exist, at least not on an export level.
Go upstate NY, there are some big old farms that have been bought up just to cultivate very exotic strains. They grow outside and inside, with just enough of legit crops to cover it up. And the cops largely let it go since it brings $$ into some real poor areas. I saw a grow of this afghani shit, little purple hairs on the buds, the most outstanding thing I’ve ever smoked.
With that all said, the weed today is 1000% better than it was 35 years ago. One hit of most of it is all you need, and its just buds, no more leaves or other crap mixed in with it. I can see it becoming a great cash crop, but its far from just throwing your leftover seeds into a flower pot like it used to be.
Rob
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
" there is a much larger amount of money to be saved by growing on your own."
If you were allowed to grow outside. Which will not happen anywhere people may smell it. Indoors when adding up set up costs, electricity, seeds, nutrients, replacing of odor controllers, and your time you will not be saving much. It would probably be cheaper to buy. A lot people who grow at home make up for it by selling small amounts to friends. Not to mention people are lazy and do not know what they are doing so, if trying to grow indoors will go for auto feminized seeds that are like 5x the cost of mixed bags adding that much more to total costs.[/quote]
The house next to me used to be a rental and it was a grow house. They would open up the windows and doors late at night, like 3 AM to exchange the air. I would be taking out the garbage or hitting the pool for a dip and smell it. The new owner had to gut the entire house when he bought it 10 years ago.
You can make a buck selling if you have 1/2-way decent seeds and know what you’re doing. You may not get rich, but fill up the house, use every conceivable space including closets and you may have a nice subsidiary income.
Rob
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
Very good article in the New Yorker about the complications of legalizing weed:
The article fails to mention the good point DBCooper made that most regular users will stop buying from anybody and grow their own. They also fail to mention that while it may not bring in the tax revenue that many expect, on the other hand, there will be huge budget savings from not locking up and prosecuting people for growing and using. [/quote]
Actually, they cover the prosecution aspect on the first couple pages.
[/quote]
Actually, they don’t really. The article has no figures for the current financial cost to states and municipalities of enforcing prohibition. Kleiman’s primary concern seems to be elimination of the black market, and his motivation is to insure the success of the I-502 stores. This is a silly waste of tax payer dollars. The government should have no stake in the success or failure of any private business. No level of government should care if a privately owned liquor store succeeds or fails. The government’s only concern should be preventing and punishing sales to minors and ensuring that all sales have been properly taxed.
The most obvious way in which Washington State screwed the pooch on legalization is I-502 insistence that every plant be tracked from seed to sale. Their motivation seems to be maximizing tax revenue. The smarter approach in my opinion would be libertarian, simply ignore people who grow for personal use, reserve enforcement for prohibiting distribution to minors, and ensuring that all sales are taxed as tobacco and alcohol are with tax stamps. If you catch someone carrying an ounce or more in a package that isn’t properly sealed with a tax stamp, hit them with heavy fines and asset forfeiture. If you catch someone selling to a minor, throw them in jail.
Alcohol has been legal since 1933. Yet there is still a thriving black market, and always will be. While I don’t have the numbers I can guarantee that the social and economic cost of enforcement of liquor laws is miniscule now compared what it was under prohibition.
That’s not a fact, that is Kleiman’s opinion and he has a lot of strange opinions. Kleiman also believes that government should triple taxes on alcohol sales, which would be a fantastic way to push people towards the black market. Kleiman also came up with the license system for cannabis use (not implemented), in which the users themselves set personal quota for their monthly use. Why should any government waste their time with that nonsense?
The I-502 stores could easily get off the ground because legal weed could be so much cheaper than illegal weed. Of course flooding the market with cheap weed is very problematic, especially if you believe that it is government’s job to protect us from ourselves. Kleiman obviously believes this that it is the moral duty of the government to protect us from ourselves. That is the argument on which prohibition was founded. On this Kleiman and I strongly disagree. Prohibition only has a history of failure and the elimination black markets is a fools errand.
[quote]
The other good point this Kleiman guy makes is that the underage demographic (>21) is a huge part of the current illicit market. Every legalization attempt so far has come with the caveat that anyone under 21 will not be allowed to purchase weed. Well, where are they going to go to get it? They’ll stay right where they are now, in the black market. And that in and of itself could be enough to sustain the black market to the point where it can continue to compete, price-wise, with the legal market.[/quote]
Absolutely. Under age alcohol and tobacco are also major problems and will always be so. That is where enforcement dollars are best spent. Protecting children is a good use for tax payer dollars. Protecting adults from their own bad choices is not.
Again, Washington State would have been wise to focus on saving taxpayer dollars by reduced enforcement, not by schemes to maximize revenue.
how can i tell a female from a male db
and would you only recommend female clones?
I have 700 acres of MS delta farm land open for weed growing business.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
how can i tell a female from a male db
and would you only recommend female clones?[/quote]
Recommend?
Yes, because otherwise you only get lots and lots of seeds.
Get some feminized seeds, make mother plants, cut clones, …, profit.
past the initial costs and whatever margin of fuck-ups,
is it financially viable for a person to grow for personal use, with no reselling intentions, iyo?
lets say i cop an oscar for 250 usually?
[quote]Claudan wrote:
past the initial costs and whatever margin of fuck-ups,
is it financially viable for a person to grow for personal use, with no reselling intentions, iyo?
lets say i cop an oscar for 250 usually?[/quote]
Imho, yes, depending on your habit. If that is one O per week, then absolutely. If you’re super casual and the O lasts you six mos. why bother?