[quote]molonlabe1911 wrote:
I searched it too. Everywhere I find says letro and nolva is a no go.
I took your advice and have Ralox, and Aromasin coming. That seems to be the best combo I’m reading as far as gyno reduction and keeping lipid values half way decent.
Also I don’t want to be on letro much longer. For fear of causing big problems with low E2 and poor Lipid levels. Aromasin and Ralox seem like a great combo. I’ll also have more Nolva for PCT
Thanks again[/quote]
yup, good luck! i was happy with aromasin, and based off how it works, i think it will help in the transition into PCT much more than letro or a-dex would…
but yeah, armidex and femara do not work well with nolvadex. when looking to stack something with nolva, then aromasin is the preferred choice… and the decrease in estrogen is nearly as much as femara (letro).
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do you have a source for that? I found a study the other day that said you can use them with nolva and it’s fine[/quote]
i’ll have to do some digging… just google tamoxifen with letrozole and it should pop up pretty quick.
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not sure if this link will show up, but even on basic med lists it shows up as an interaction:
yeah man, I did some digging and it appears letro lowers effectiveness of nolva, but that letro is far superior anyway so you might as well just use letro.
I have about two weeks worth of letro left that I’ll probably use up. But will switch over to Aromadin plus Raloxifene for back 3 weeks and two weeks after my last pin. Then I’ll go to Clomid and Nolva.
I’ve just been on Letro at 2.5/day for like 5-6 weeks now. I’m worried about the cholesterol effects and joint/immune health. Plus my sex drive is gonezo right now.
Pretty sure my E2 is pretty well in check at this point. Justreally want to be sure since I just added HCG to the mix.
[quote]molonlabe1911 wrote:
I have about two weeks worth of letro left that I’ll probably use up. But will switch over to Aromadin plus Raloxifene for back 3 weeks and two weeks after my last pin. Then I’ll go to Clomid and Nolva.
I’ve just been on Letro at 2.5/day for like 5-6 weeks now. I’m worried about the cholesterol effects and joint/immune health. Plus my sex drive is gonezo right now.
Pretty sure my E2 is pretty well in check at this point. Justreally want to be sure since I just added HCG to the mix. [/quote]
honestly, i think for PCT keep the Aromasin, and just add in Nolva.
i’m still doing some research on this, but i think combing 2 SERMs (or at least clomid and nolva) is not good for a lot of reasons.
clomid or nolva are both pretty effective on their own… a lot of people stack them, but i don’t think it helps (and IMO, it can make some things worse). and it’s worth noting, SERMs can raise your estrogen levels slightly…
this is partly why i feel combing an AI and SERM is the best course of action for PCT. the AI keeps E low while the SERM does it’s thing. if we stop an AI and add in a SERM, it will raise test and block some of the action of estrogen, but estrogen will still be there and still remain (to a degree) when the SERM is gone. for someone with gyno already, i think that this can cause the dreaded “rebound gyno” after PCT is done…
[quote]Yogi wrote:
fuck me that’s a long time to be running that high a dose of letro. You must feel like utter shit.
Has there been any improvement in your gyno?[/quote]
Yeah I think the gyno is dead. I still have small hard lumps beneath the nip…maybe dime sized. But at this point I’m pretty sure that’s preexisting and I just didn’t notice before. But I’ve had gyno at least twice before. And most recently DAA did it, and I didn’t use an AI.
But as far as the symptoms I got in this cycle, GONE. no sensitivity, little to no fat build up there, and you can only tell it’s there by feeling.
I don’t feel terrible. But tired and no sex drive often. Still gaining strength though and joints feel okay. Good thing is zero water retention, I’m shredded to 8% bf and still gained 10lb , sitting at 212.
Thanks again Cyco. Okay…I’ll take that advice into consideration and read up also. At least now I’ll have all the stuff I need in hand no matter what route I go.
I’m really wanting to PCT right and make it worth all the trouble and money.
Before I used nolva only, with good success, but I am older now and very concerned with keeping my strength. Not really a size junkie, but I want to squat 500 and C&J 300+
sure according to a study they make reduce each other’s effectiveness to some extent, but the combination still works nicely for gyno.
it’s the prevalence of broscience like this… guys being advised against this combination… it’s part of the reason why so many guys have gyno these days lol.
nolva is tried and true for getting rid of gyno. there aren’t many firsthand reports on raxolifene because it’s pretty difficult to find (relatively speaking at least…ive never ben able to find it). and the reports ive read were hit and miss.
either way OP, I hope whatever you chose to do works for you. gyno is not a good look. you will probably find that it either fades even more, or gets way worse once your cycle is over and pct is completed.
LOL, well I guess the good news is, I’ll have every possible compound on hand and if one thing doesn’t work I can try another. Letro alone has been working, but I’m tired of the feeling if drowsiness and no sex drive.
I do like the fact that Aromasin has less impact on cholesterol than Letro. Plus now I’ll have like 12 weeks worth of Nolva. So if Ralox is ano go the Aromasin and Nolva won’t mess with each other.
Main thing is I want to get my E2 up a tad but still block the gyno. In my past experience the gyno goes mostly away after PCT…
Worst case I wasted money on stuff I didn’t need…lol
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
letro and nolva work fine lol…
sure according to a study they make reduce each other’s effectiveness to some extent, but the combination still works nicely for gyno.
it’s the prevalence of broscience like this… guys being advised against this combination… it’s part of the reason why so many guys have gyno these days lol.
nolva is tried and true for getting rid of gyno. there aren’t many firsthand reports on raxolifene because it’s pretty difficult to find (relatively speaking at least…ive never ben able to find it). and the reports ive read were hit and miss.
either way OP, I hope whatever you chose to do works for you. gyno is not a good look. you will probably find that it either fades even more, or gets way worse once your cycle is over and pct is completed.
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apparently you don’t get the irony of advising someone a protocol that is scientifically proven to be less effective than many others while dismissing them as “broscience”…
So off topic from my OP, but thread jacking myself.
Cold flashes on and off today… Only things new are HCG but been on it two weeks. And a Nolva yesterday. Within an hour of the nolva felt vertigo. Is the hot cold flashes typical of either of those?
Also splitting headache post workout that only lasted until I ate. But the cold flashes still coming and going.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
letro and nolva work fine lol…
sure according to a study they make reduce each other’s effectiveness to some extent, but the combination still works nicely for gyno.
it’s the prevalence of broscience like this… guys being advised against this combination… it’s part of the reason why so many guys have gyno these days lol.
nolva is tried and true for getting rid of gyno. there aren’t many firsthand reports on raxolifene because it’s pretty difficult to find (relatively speaking at least…ive never ben able to find it). and the reports ive read were hit and miss.
either way OP, I hope whatever you chose to do works for you. gyno is not a good look. you will probably find that it either fades even more, or gets way worse once your cycle is over and pct is completed.
[/quote]
apparently you don’t get the irony of advising someone a protocol that is scientifically proven to be less effective than many others while dismissing them as “broscience”…
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I understand that raxolifene is superior to nolvadex in reducing gyno according to the studies… the problem is - and has been sourcing legit raxolifene… whereas finding quality nolvadex and letro is very easy.
im just suggesting what many have had success with. ive read more stories of failure than success with regards to raxolifene… probably because of fake or improperly suspended product.
So going forward this is my tenative game plan… Anyone care to critique it?
In week 9 which I’ll finish by staying on Letro only
Wk 10-14 continue on Test E @ 300mg E4D
Wk 10-16 ralox and Aromasin (dosage advice?)
Wk 10-14 HCG 250IU EOD
Wk 16-20 (or as long as it takes) Nolva 40/40/20/20…
I got Clomid coming too, was planning to stack with nolva for PCT but varying opinions so I may not.
I really want as smooth a transition as possible. Any advice welcome.