I’m pretty late to the party, but coming from a super progressive state (cali) and having written a handful of school papers on the subject - I feel compelled to weigh in.
I have 24 solar panels on top of my house - they save me not more than $250 a month on electricity and I still eat an additional $300 in electric bills during summer months. The tolal system cost was $35,000 - 10% of which gets returned back to me yearly via tax returns (I agree with this because Cali made a law requiring solar to be installed on new homes… don’t require what you won’t pay for). Mind you, my house is only 2,000 sq ft, which is considered a bit large compared to most houses in California; also, everything about my house is as efficient as it gets and the AC doesn’t go below 74 in the day and 68 after 9:00pm)
Had I spent $10,000 on materials and installation of a wind turbine in my back yard - I would pay $0 monthly in electric bills and sell back excess every month of the year… So why in the fuck is it that solar panels (which have not more than 20% efficiency - dissipating the rest as heat, degrading at 1% per year) are the required energy source? Politics.
Texas actually has a fuckload of wind turbines but the indoctrinated morons in Cali thinks Texas just burns raw oil to power their homes.
I had almost 2 weeks in a row where the state sent out emergency texts saying to lower energy uses between the hours of 4:00pm-9:00pm or the grid was going to black out… Then after everyone suffered through a 110+ degree heat wave, California lawmakers took credit for how great their green energy system works
Anyways… I’m all for green energy - when it’s economically viable. Wind turbines are great, and apparently they taste great too; at least they aren’t as shitty as solar panels.
(If you want to shit on solar panels some more with me, read into the Photovoltaic Heat Island Effect, which should resonate as the literal antithesis to the liberal agenda of “global warming”, but is never talked about)
Fuckkk that I would have a big fat diesel generator. They can black out all they want. I will have my AC.
Also the passing of the all cars sold must be electric in CA by 2035 is laughable. You will choose between charging your car or having power in your house only between certain hours.
Well, the 24 solar panels on the roof for starters (this covers an area of approximately 400sq ft along my roof, on the sunnier side).
Triple pane windows, brand new AC unit that’s oversized to the house (but tuned to the house size) with an overpowered fan system to ensure the air gets enough cycles alongside a smart thermostat, Energy Efficient rated washer, dryer, oven, fridge, dishwasher, freezer, TV’s, light bulbs, etc. If you want more details than this, please do provide specifics.
I have a vent fan set on the roof to cool off the attic when it get’s over 95 degrees, as well as the most heat-reflective roof shingles I could get my insurance company to approve of - both of which were installed in the beginning of 2020.
The thing I’ve always wondered about roof panels is, don’t they fuck up your roof? Probably not a big deal in Cali, but come snow and ice season wouldn’t the mounting make it easier for the roof to be compromised quicker?
I mean, sure - it’s screwed into the roof. It’s also possible for water to seep into any of the holes made by the nails holding the shingles on too though.
I can’t speak for all solar installations, or ther effectiveness against hardcore rain/snow buildup, but there are plenty of ways that these leak paths could be sealed up. All roof holes are susceptible to leakage though, no matter how well you seal them.
Seems like solar panels could work in a place like California, plenty of sun, low chance for snow in most of the heavily populated areas. From what I’ve read, and it’s been a while since I did a deep dive on this stuff, solar panels are much more efficient than windmills.
Windmills only produce power when the windspeed is 10 miles an hour or greater, which may be common in some areas, but I know they wouldn’t do much where I live. And I have read that they produce an obnoxious high pitch whining noise, which would seem to be very undesirable close to your home.
On which metric? CO2 emissions, lost energy potential, cost-effectiveness, overall carbon footprint?
Under optimal conditions, a wind turbine can produce the same amount of electicity as about 48,000 solar panels.
Solar Panels off-gas 15x more CO2 than windmills as a byproduct of electricity generation.
Wind turbines convert about 50% of potential energy into actual electricity, whereas solar panels are typically not more than 20% efficient at turning solar rays into electricity (and they produce more heat).
Wind turbines take from 10-15 years to pay themselves off, meanwhile solar takes 9-12 years. The difference is that the wind turbine is still functioning at near-max efficiency, while the solar panels are halfway (or more) to their expiration date. So Solar pays itself off faster, but needs replacement soon afterwards - wind takes longer to pay for itself but can keep running long afterwards.
Would be interested to know where you found solar being more efficient.
You totally got me on “efficient” that’s the wrong word. I went deep into the solar rabbit hole several years ago. Speaking of which, I have never heard of a solar panel off gassing, that’s interesting.
But the reality of windmills are, they don’t produce any electricity if the wind isn’t blowing hard enough. Which, I have read varies from a minimum of 8 to 12 miles an hour. Your numbers for windmills seem to be based on ideal conditions. In many parts of the country those conditions are kind of rare. Solar panels do produce some electricity even on overcast days.
I’m not on team solar, I think these are interesting tools that fit some applications. Windmills are probably great in Wyoming. If I was building a new house in an area more rural than where I am now, I would use solar, and have a propane generator, and a wood burning stove. Mostly to just not be dependent on the grid. I don’t think any of this shit is going to save the earth, lol.
True for the huge ones we commonly see, but there are some promising models in the works that have much smaller blades and much more fans - meaning they can turn at lower wind speeds. Still, you are correct that they do need at least some wind.
Agree. I’m not against or for either mode; frankly i think it’s ridiculous we’re not using nuclear. But i think each have their place… most importantly is pricing though.
The panel itself doesn’t off-gas CO2, it’s the process of converting the raw energy into electrical energy - to my understanding. I’m sure both windmills and solar panels do off-gas some chemicals though, unsure to what extent.
I’m always happy to have these conversations, should you be interested in undertaking another deep-dive on this topic =)
I didn’t reply to the reply you’d sent me five days ago (just hearted it though), but I don’t personally have much to say, this is just an area I know nothing about and would like to learn more about. My eventual goal is to be able to build a house and have it be as efficient/“green” as I can get it (we’ll see though, it’s not like I’ll have millions to spend on it), so I like hearing about different options for when that day comes.
EDIT: So, that being said, I’ll be following along with any conversations like this that do come up.
If that is the goal, small is what you want. Then being stoic in regards to the temperature inside goes a long way. Then things that are pretty standard like insulating the attic / walls come in.
If you read the blog by Mr. Money Mustache, he has his house outside of Denver running like a well tuned machine. You can read about that, but I think he has stated that he gets enough heat from his LED lighting and appliances that he doesn’t have to use the heat in the winter (Denver area). He is kinda crazy though, I bet it is like 55F in the winter, in his house.
Roofing material matters (I have a theory that clay roofing tiles work better for heat-dissipation than asphalt, would have to do more research to be confident in this though).
Don’t skimp on the HVAC system. Pump, heater, A/C, Swamp Cooler, and ducting.
Make it a smart house (if you aren’t worried about Google knowing when you’re naked, and getting personalized Advertizements for conversations you have in the ‘privacy’ of your own home)
Natural shading (shade trees).
If you’re really vested, consider geothermal. You cannot do this one after the house has been built.
, you’d find LED can put off quite a bit of heat.