Stellar, I know a lot about the crusades. The Crusaders weren’t the smartest bunch on the planet, they helped a guy named Baibars who defeated a potential ally the Mongols and Baibars and his empire repaid them by eliminating all the remaining crusaders outposts in the middle east.
And yes, the sack of Constantinople also contributed to the loss of Constantinople by the Turks and the loss of Kosovo later, which is why the Serbians are still fighting the war centuries later.
I am all for eliminating muslim extremists in the balkans. If that’s who they were fighting, more power to them. But they also were exterminating ALL of the muslims, men women and children. Do you think the means justifies the ends in that situation.
That all muslims should die because of a nationalistic war against muslim extremists? That would make the Serbs no better then the Croats who were backed by the Nazi’s in WWII.
If America is the root of so much evil in the world why are the RPGs, the AK-47’s, the rockets, and other such weapons owned by Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, the Palestinians, the Iraqi insurgents, the guys in Somalia, all Russian made weapons? Don’t you think the russians have done their share of evil in the world?
2 more questions: what should the world do about the situation in Darfur?
What do you think of Dubai? If the Iraqis were smart they could be living in a country like Dubai, but instead, have chosen to unfortunately re-create their country to be more like Taliban Afghanistan.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
If America is the root of so much evil in the world why are the RPGs, the AK-47’s, the rockets, and other such weapons owned by Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, the Palestinians, the Iraqi insurgents, the guys in Somalia, all Russian made weapons? Don’t you think the russians have done their share of evil in the world? [/quote]
Exactly. There’s a demand for weapons in those regions, and Russia happened to have heaps of those. Whatever atrocities are going to be commited with those weapons doesn’t matter for the arm dealer. Capitalism at its lowest.
I know a lot of Sudanese and I get both sides of the propaganda; The Sudanese line is that the US are arming the rebels. I don’t know to what extent this is true, but from the meager understanding I have of the situation, I can’t really say much. Last month I decided to go visit the Sudan to get more acquainted with the issue and accessorily see some lions in the wild. My Sudanese friends say 100 Euros would be enough for a week there, including safari tours. Oh, did I mention hemp grows in the wild there?
You’re being unfair here. There isn’t really much common things between Dubai and Iraq. Their history is very different. 80% of Dubai’s population are non-citizens. The curse of Iraq was to have too much oil under their sands.
The radical bastards certainly aren’t contributing to appease things down there. But saying that the population (I’m talking regular people) chose the situation they’re in is just mean.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I am all for eliminating muslim extremists in the balkans. If that’s who they were fighting, more power to them. But they also were exterminating ALL of the muslims, men women and children. Do you think the means justifies the ends in that situation.
That all muslims should die because of a nationalistic war against muslim extremists? That would make the Serbs no better then the Croats who were backed by the Nazi’s in WWII.[/quote]
I agree with you. I just wanted to comment on how Orthodox Christians [i]did[/i] take action against crusading Christians who clearly deviated from the rudimentary behaviors of a peaceful faith.
I also agree that Milosovic retaliating against Muslim extremists and Albanian gangs in Kosovo should have been a more precise and calculating operation rather than haphazardly killing women and children, but U.S. bombs raining down on the Serbs spray-painted with the words “Happy Easter” on the holiest of Christian celebrations is appalling.
We walk on eggshells when it comes to Ramadan - we halt military strikes in respect for the Muslims but cheerfully annihilate Orthodox Christians during the most cherished feast… I simply don’t get it.
Regardless, more damage was done in the Balkans than good. How many MORE innocents are killed nowadays that our media doesn’t care to disclose? The KLA is still a terrorist organization under the guise of being a peace corp thanks to the U.N. The Muslims gangs in the Balkans are now stronger than ever. [b]More pimps, more drug-running, more terrorist funding. We should get anything besides applause for that.[/b]
I understand the situation in Iraq all to well, not from personal knowledge but from doing a lot of reading on the subject.
I believe the people there are in a horrible situation, one which should have been forseen by the U.S. Anyone watching the middle east in the last 20 years could have predicted that outcome. Plus all the racial and religious tensions between Kurd, Shia and Sunni.
And I understand that the average citizen is under siege from constant bombardment from terrorists and foreign fighters. To say the Iraqis wanted this is mean, but to say the Americans wanted this is also mean.
When the population got up and voted, what exactly do you think they were voting for? The chance to choose their leaders, to live in freedom from oppression and terror (that Saddam was giving them) and to practice their religion freely.
That is what the US wanted also, they also wanted the oil revenue to be split between all of the sects. Maybe there is a difference between Dubai and Iraq, but Iraq could have been built into a state like Dubai.
Too bad al-qaeda blew up the Shite mosque and sparked a holy war. If you want to blame anyone for the people’s misfortune, blame them.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
And I understand that the average citizen is under siege from constant bombardment from terrorists and foreign fighters. To say the Iraqis wanted this is mean, but to say the Americans wanted this is also mean.[/quote]
Absolutely. An unstable Iraq would not benefit anyone.
[quote]When the population got up and voted, what exactly do you think they were voting for? The chance to choose their leaders, to live in freedom from oppression and terror (that Saddam was giving them) and to practice their religion freely. That is what the US wanted also, they also wanted the oil revenue to be split between all of the sects. Maybe there is a difference between Dubai and Iraq, but Iraq could have been built into a state like Dubai.[/quote]
This is a myth. The US wants to install a client regime. I think the US overthrew enough democratically elected governments to prove once and for all that they only respect ballot results as long as the winner supports them.
It’s understandable given the superpower position of the states. When you have privileges, you tend to use them.
I do. I also know that
They’re not the rational kind you can have a talk with.
The war on terror is only emboldening them and broadning their supporters base.
Free and fair elections in Iraq will put the Shiites in power, and draw the country to ally with Iran. Something the US obviously cannot allow. That last point, in a nutshell, is the Iraq conundrum.
They’re not the rational kind you can have a talk with.
The war on terror is only emboldening them and broadning their supporters base.
Free and fair elections in Iraq will put the Shiites in power, and draw the country to ally with Iran. Something the US obviously cannot allow. That last point, in a nutshell, is the Iraq conundrum."
this is all true. But I think that Grand Ayatollah Sistani said 2 things right after the Iraq invasion that we should have heeded and did not.
America did it’s job, Saddam was outsted. Now get out of Iraq and let the Iraqis solve their own problems.
The Iraqi people and the people following Sistani do not want a theocracy like the one in Iran. (Not saying they wanted a democracy, but they did not want to be like Iran.)
It is too bad the al-qaeda and Saddamites had to spoil things for everyone.
Now there is a occupation (the Iraq conundrum) which is being prolonged by the constant attacks against the government and the troops there. If there was no insurrection, there would have been no occupation. The troops and contractors would have fixed the countries infrastructure and left.
They may have set up a base there.
The only problem is, the other radical arab states, Iran, Saudi Arabia, ect, could not let this democratic American ally stand, since they view America as evil and western ideas as anti-islamic.
That is the situation we are in.
My thoughts in a nutshell:
Afghanistan = totally justified war.
Iraq = shortsighted, stupid decision. A total shame.
They’re not the rational kind you can have a talk with.
The war on terror is only emboldening them and broadning their supporters base.
Free and fair elections in Iraq will put the Shiites in power, and draw the country to ally with Iran. Something the US obviously cannot allow. That last point, in a nutshell, is the Iraq conundrum."
this is all true. But I think that Grand Ayatollah Sistani said 2 things right after the Iraq invasion that we should have heeded and did not.
America did it’s job, Saddam was outsted. Now get out of Iraq and let the Iraqis solve their own problems.
The Iraqi people and the people following Sistani do not want a theocracy like the one in Iran. (Not saying they wanted a democracy, but they did not want to be like Iran.)
It is too bad the al-qaeda and Saddamites had to spoil things for everyone.
Now there is a occupation (the Iraq conundrum) which is being prolonged by the constant attacks against the government and the troops there. If there was no insurrection, there would have been no occupation. The troops and contractors would have fixed the countries infrastructure and left.
They may have set up a base there.
The only problem is, the other radical arab states, Iran, Saudi Arabia, ect, could not let this democratic American ally stand, since they view America as evil and western ideas as anti-islamic.
That is the situation we are in.
My thoughts in a nutshell:
Afghanistan = totally justified war.
Iraq = shortsighted, stupid decision. A total shame.[/quote]
I agree with everything you said. However, I’m certain that a democratic Iraq is not in the interest of the US. The Shi’ite majority will stregthen Tehran in the region; Something the US cannot allow.