Labor Is The Superior Of Capital

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]vroom wrote:
Minority? Possibly. Although the party closest to espousing the true ideals of free market capitalism has been in power of all 3 branches of government for 6 years now. Although the Republicans aren’t true "LF Capitalists, especially in this current, ‘Compassionate’ version, I believe it is at the core of their belief system.

Modok,

I was referring to HeadHunter, who was once again claiming that the world must fall because of taxes and his newfound belief in Rand.

I don’t see either the Republicans or the Democrats looking at repealing taxes and cancelling all social programs.

As for free market capitalism, as a student of economics, there are some things that don’t work well in a market setting. In these cases, governments have traditionally intervened.

For example, and this is historic, but some large infrastructure projects, like pipelines, highways, damns and so forth occur because of government will, not market forces.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe neoliberalism is the concept or ideology concerning freedom of markets, to an astounding degree, such that nothing should interfere with commerce and transactions.

I think going too far in the extreme in this direction is just as bad as going to far with leftist views, towards perhaps communism. All ideologies and doctrines can have negative aspects when taken to some extremes.

However, I will agree, democracy and capitalism certainly appear to be the best ideas that people have stumbled upon so far.[/quote]

Yea, neoliberalism is against the traditional leftist standpoint. Neoliberalism is NAFTA, and any other free trade acts that go through.

122

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

I was a libertarian until I understood how much the corporations run things. [/quote]

I wonder if big business would feel the need to meddle so much in the affairs of government, if government would stop interfering, to the extent that it presently does, in the affairs of business? I of course have no proof- call it a hunch or intuitive guess- but, the very fact a corporation is able to garner such favor with government officials may speak to an otherwise undiscussed argument in favor of limited government: a “wall of separation” between government and business may, in effect, negate, or severely limit, the motives behind big business’ encroachment on government.

This is, after all, partly the reason Jefferson and the Republicans were so adamantly opposed to the Hamiltonian vision of a national bank: they believed Hamilton’s connections with the rich, urban bankers was not something that should be institutionalized- a national bank would give commercial interests too much power within the federal government.

I haven’t yet stated my beliefs concerning the extent to which the government ought to have the power to regulate business because, well, I haven’t yet solidified those beliefs. However, I can say with certainty that I am no anarchocapitalist; I believe there is a role for government in the regulation of business, albeit, a much smaller role than is currently held (especially with respect to the federal government). With that said, I do think we can limit government’s power in such a way as to greatly limit business’ influence over government.

123

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
I wonder if big business would feel the need to meddle so much in the affairs of government, if government would stop interfering, to the extent that it presently does, in the affairs of business?[/quote]

That’s like seeing a criminal trying to break out of prison and suggesting “Lets just let him loose, so he’ll stop trying to break out of prison!”.

124

2 Major Construction Unions Plan to Leave A.F.L.-C.I.O.

“We cannot stand idly by, tied to a past that promises only further decline for construction workers,” said Terence M. O’Sullivan, president of the Laborers International Union of North America, which has 700,000 members. He indicated that his union would soon quit the A.F.L.-C.I.O., following five other unions that have left the federation in the past year.

125

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

I was a libertarian until I understood how much the corporations run things.

I wonder if big business would feel the need to meddle so much in the affairs of government, if government would stop interfering, to the extent that it presently does, in the affairs of business? I of course have no proof- call it a hunch or intuitive guess- but, the very fact a corporation is able to garner such favor with government officials may speak to an otherwise undiscussed argument in favor of limited government: a “wall of separation” between government and business may, in effect, negate, or severely limit, the motives behind big business’ encroachment on government.

This is, after all, partly the reason Jefferson and the Republicans were so adamantly opposed to the Hamiltonian vision of a national bank: they believed Hamilton’s connections with the rich, urban bankers was not something that should be institutionalized- a national bank would give commercial interests too much power within the federal government.

I haven’t yet stated my beliefs concerning the extent to which the government ought to have the power to regulate business because, well, I haven’t yet solidified those beliefs. However, I can say with certainty that I am no anarchocapitalist; I believe there is a role for government in the regulation of business, albeit, a much smaller role than is currently held (especially with respect to the federal government). With that said, I do think we can limit government’s power in such a way as to greatly limit business’ influence over government. [/quote]

The problem becomes: where to draw the line. Since that’s debatable, the populace will vote for those politicians who vote for evermore benefits at someone else’s expense. You then must get a welfare-state, followed by a fascistic state. Only an all-powerful government can continue to force more and more productive people to surrender their wealth. The government becomes draconian. Ever hear of the IRS?

126

[quote]doogie wrote:

2 Major Construction Unions Plan to Leave A.F.L.-C.I.O.

“We cannot stand idly by, tied to a past that promises only further decline for construction workers,” said Terence M. O’Sullivan, president of the Laborers International Union of North America, which has 700,000 members. He indicated that his union would soon quit the A.F.L.-C.I.O., following five other unions that have left the federation in the past year.[/quote]

I saw this. Still not worried though. Maybe they are fed up with the union bosses living like CEO’s. Can’t say I’m surprised.

It might even be better in the long run.

127

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
…

I saw this. Still not worried though. Maybe they are fed up with the union bosses living like CEO’s. Can’t say I’m surprised.

It might even be better in the long run.[/quote]

This is one of my main problems with labor unions. The union bosses get rich at everyone elses expense.

Big unions have poisened the well in the US with their antics over the last few decades.

With labor becoming worth less and less every day and labor unions so corrupt the future looks interesting.

If we could minimize the rampant corruption at the executive levels we would really have something going.

I am sick to death of reading about all these CEO’s getting huge bonus’ and pay raises while profits are dropping and layoffs are occuring.

128

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
doogie wrote:

2 Major Construction Unions Plan to Leave A.F.L.-C.I.O.

“We cannot stand idly by, tied to a past that promises only further decline for construction workers,” said Terence M. O’Sullivan, president of the Laborers International Union of North America, which has 700,000 members. He indicated that his union would soon quit the A.F.L.-C.I.O., following five other unions that have left the federation in the past year.

I saw this. Still not worried though. Maybe they are fed up with the union bosses living like CEO’s. Can’t say I’m surprised.

It might even be better in the long run.[/quote]
Doogie ,I know there is corruption in unions just like other big business,there are so many white collar criminals you wouldnt believe.But from your posts i gather you are a teacher ,dont you belong to a teachers union ?and didnt gov. bush miss use your pension funds?Also a young male teacher at my sons school that was against unions and was a staunch republican had a young female student accuse him of sexual misconduct,the young teacher was screwed he didnt have the money to hire a lawyer and fight this in court,but the teacher’s union provided him with a lawyer and it came out in court that the two young girls made up the story and it kept him from going to jail.unions do provide some good services.

129

[quote]ron33 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
doogie wrote:

2 Major Construction Unions Plan to Leave A.F.L.-C.I.O.

“We cannot stand idly by, tied to a past that promises only further decline for construction workers,” said Terence M. O’Sullivan, president of the Laborers International Union of North America, which has 700,000 members. He indicated that his union would soon quit the A.F.L.-C.I.O., following five other unions that have left the federation in the past year.

I saw this. Still not worried though. Maybe they are fed up with the union bosses living like CEO’s. Can’t say I’m surprised.

It might even be better in the long run.
Doogie ,I know there is corruption in unions just like other big business,there are so many white collar criminals you wouldnt believe.But from your posts i gather you are a teacher ,dont you belong to a teachers union ?and didnt gov. bush miss use your pension funds?Also a young male teacher at my sons school that was against unions and was a staunch republican had a young female student accuse him of sexual misconduct,the young teacher was screwed he didnt have the money to hire a lawyer and fight this in court,but the teacher’s union provided him with a lawyer and it came out in court that the two young girls made up the story and it kept him from going to jail.unions do provide some good services.
[/quote]

No, I don’t belong to a teachers union. I’ve never met a teacher who did (as far as I know). I have private professional insurance/lawyer services through a local agent that would cover a situation like that. It’s cheap and they do wills and contracts. I don’t know how it would compare to union dues, though.

I started teaching in 2000, so Bush wasn’t Governor when I started. I don’t know what you are talking about as far as misuse goes. I will tell you that I think it would be stupid for anyone to rely on a government program for their retirement.