L-Leucine and BCAA

Nutrition
21

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Adding it to meals where you might not hit 5g of leucine is where you can get the potential added benefit of increased protein synthesis from the leucine. Obviously what KB does works for him, but just my thoughts on what I know of leucine. [/quote]

And if you are eating like a man all meals have more than 5g of leucine. It becomes redundant at a certain point. Learn to eat. Can be useful in a caloric deficit if you want to remove calories from protein sources. [/quote]

I actually agree with you. I don’t feel leucine is that important of a supplement unless you are cutting. [/quote]

Both of you have misunderstood what you’ve read about leucine. Stop giving advice based on your opinion, lol. The leucine from whole food sources does NOT have the same effect as free form L-leucine. The benefits of leucine come from blood leucine SPIKES, not from it’s gradual release from the broken down whole proteins that you eat. You are wrong.[/quote]

Stimulation of muscle anabolism by resistance exercise and ingestion of leucine plus protein.

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Ferrando AA, Aarsland AA, Wolfe RR. Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX 77555, USA.

Arterial amino acid concentrations increased in response to ingestion of W+L. Amino acid concentrations peaked between 60 and 120 min after ingestion, and then declined to baseline values. Valine concentration decreased to levels significantly lower than baseline. Net balance of leucine, threonine, and phenylalanine did not change following PL ingestion, but increased and remained elevated above baseline for 90-120 min following W+L ingestion. Leucine (138 +/- 37 and -23 +/- 23 mg), phenylalanine (58 +/- 28 and -38 +/- 14 mg), and threonine (138 +/- 37 and -23 +/- 23 mg) uptake was greater for W+L than for PL over the 5.5 h following drink ingestion.

CONCLUSION: Our results indicate that the whey protein plus leucine in healthy young volunteers results in an anabolic response in muscle that is not greater than the previously reported response to whey protein alone.
[/quote]

"Recently researchers conducted an experiment where subject resistance trained for forty five minutes and then supplemented with carbohydrate alone, carbohydrate plus protein (approximately 30g) or carbohydrate plus protein and leucine.

They found that the carbohydrate/protein/leucine supplement reduced protein breakdown and increased skeletal muscle protein synthesis to a greater degree than the carbohydrate/protein supplement and to a much greater degree than the carbohydrate only supplement.10

A possible explanation for these results could be due to the rapid >>>>SPIKE<<<< in plasma leucine that a free form leucine supplement could achieve. Whole proteins take long periods of time to empty from the stomach into the small intestine and finally into circulation. Thus, plasma levels increase slowly and plateau.

Even with a fast digesting protein such as whey, it can take hours for the leucine in whey to be liberated from the protein & enter circulation; therefore leucine concentrations in the plasma never spike to high levels.

An isolated leucine supplement however, would be quickly absorbed into circulation, thus spiking plasma leucine levels & drastically increasing intracellular leucine concentrations and activating the aforementioned anabolic pathways…

…Leucine has a far greater stimulatory effect on protein synthesis than any other amino acid and it has been shown that protein synthesis increases similarly in response to a relatively small dose of leucine compared to a whole food meal.

It has also been demonstrated that adding leucine to a protein rich meal further increases the rate of skeletal muscle protein synthesis."

This is directly from Norton’s article, which is funny considering Gl;itch.e mentioned he got his info from there, yet made a statement that conflicts with it, lol.

[/quote]

#BURN

i believe whatever KB says, thanks for the info there mate!
[/quote]

Lol I don’t know how that is a “burn”. We both displayed research that supports our argument. I believe that is called a good debate.

22

There are two main reasons that Leucine in and of itself has a major impact on protein synthesis the first being “translation” which is simply the signal to turn on the engine. The second being it’s very insulinogenic which amplifies the signal (Translation) even more from a slightly different pathway. With that being said you’d want Leucine at every meal and even more so around your workout.

23

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Adding it to meals where you might not hit 5g of leucine is where you can get the potential added benefit of increased protein synthesis from the leucine. Obviously what KB does works for him, but just my thoughts on what I know of leucine. [/quote]

And if you are eating like a man all meals have more than 5g of leucine. It becomes redundant at a certain point. Learn to eat. Can be useful in a caloric deficit if you want to remove calories from protein sources. [/quote]

I actually agree with you. I don’t feel leucine is that important of a supplement unless you are cutting. [/quote]

Both of you have misunderstood what you’ve read about leucine. Stop giving advice based on your opinion, lol. The leucine from whole food sources does NOT have the same effect as free form L-leucine. The benefits of leucine come from blood leucine SPIKES, not from it’s gradual release from the broken down whole proteins that you eat. You are wrong.[/quote]

Stimulation of muscle anabolism by resistance exercise and ingestion of leucine plus protein.

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Ferrando AA, Aarsland AA, Wolfe RR. Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX 77555, USA.

Arterial amino acid concentrations increased in response to ingestion of W+L. Amino acid concentrations peaked between 60 and 120 min after ingestion, and then declined to baseline values. Valine concentration decreased to levels significantly lower than baseline. Net balance of leucine, threonine, and phenylalanine did not change following PL ingestion, but increased and remained elevated above baseline for 90-120 min following W+L ingestion. Leucine (138 +/- 37 and -23 +/- 23 mg), phenylalanine (58 +/- 28 and -38 +/- 14 mg), and threonine (138 +/- 37 and -23 +/- 23 mg) uptake was greater for W+L than for PL over the 5.5 h following drink ingestion.

CONCLUSION: Our results indicate that the whey protein plus leucine in healthy young volunteers results in an anabolic response in muscle that is not greater than the previously reported response to whey protein alone.
[/quote]

"Recently researchers conducted an experiment where subject resistance trained for forty five minutes and then supplemented with carbohydrate alone, carbohydrate plus protein (approximately 30g) or carbohydrate plus protein and leucine.

They found that the carbohydrate/protein/leucine supplement reduced protein breakdown and increased skeletal muscle protein synthesis to a greater degree than the carbohydrate/protein supplement and to a much greater degree than the carbohydrate only supplement.10

A possible explanation for these results could be due to the rapid >>>>SPIKE<<<< in plasma leucine that a free form leucine supplement could achieve. Whole proteins take long periods of time to empty from the stomach into the small intestine and finally into circulation. Thus, plasma levels increase slowly and plateau.

Even with a fast digesting protein such as whey, it can take hours for the leucine in whey to be liberated from the protein & enter circulation; therefore leucine concentrations in the plasma never spike to high levels.

An isolated leucine supplement however, would be quickly absorbed into circulation, thus spiking plasma leucine levels & drastically increasing intracellular leucine concentrations and activating the aforementioned anabolic pathways…

…Leucine has a far greater stimulatory effect on protein synthesis than any other amino acid and it has been shown that protein synthesis increases similarly in response to a relatively small dose of leucine compared to a whole food meal.

It has also been demonstrated that adding leucine to a protein rich meal further increases the rate of skeletal muscle protein synthesis."

This is directly from Norton’s article, which is funny considering Gl;itch.e mentioned he got his info from there, yet made a statement that conflicts with it, lol.

[/quote]

“Adding it to meals where you might not hit 5g of leucine is where you can get the potential added benefit of increased protein synthesis from the leucine.”

Your research is pretty much in agreement with what I suggested anyway. Adding 5g of leucine to a solid meal well net you enhanced protein synthesis.

The disagreement comes at whether adding leucine to a protein shake will increase protein synthesis. We both showed research that supported both sides.

The other disagreement was with adding 5g of leucine to a BCAA amino acid shake that depending on how many grams of BCAA is in it probably already contains enough leucine (in free form, for fast absorption). If you know of research that shows that adding leucine to BCAA’s results in even more protein synthesis I guess I could side with you there.

24

Yep this thread just got a lot more interesting than I was expecting it to. Good stuff here.

The bit from Norton’s article I wanted to focus on was related to spiking Leucine. It appears that after ingestion of a meal or supplementing with ample leucine levels stay raised for such a time that “spiking” has no effect until levels drop away significantly. This period is likely to be more than 4-5 hours. Therefore there is no benefit to spiking leucine through feeding or supplements more than this if each meal contains sufficient levels.

To conclude Layne suggests that meals are spaced 4-5 hours apart but then contradicts his whole studies findings by also suggesting spiking between meals with leucine and carbs. LOL. So I can see where the confusions coming from.

But hey do what works for you. I have also read that Leucine can work better cycled as the body can adjust for higher levels and not respond as well as when its first introduced. Cant remember where I read that though.

25

It’s silly to overanalyze this stuff. I’ve read articles from credible authors that say it’s a good idea to use leucine in pre/post workout shakes and bcaa’s during workout. Since implementing those protocols, I’ve noticed a positive effect on my progress so I continue to do it. Simple. I feel like reading too much actually holds some people back.

26

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
It’s silly to overanalyze this stuff. I’ve read articles from credible authors that say it’s a good idea to use leucine in pre/post workout shakes and bcaa’s during workout. Since implementing those protocols, I’ve noticed a positive effect on my progress so I continue to do it. Simple. I feel like reading too much actually holds some people back.[/quote]

Probably true for some cases. But, that is the reason I like T-Nation. Lots of intelligent people with whom you can microanalyze the last 10% percent of the puzzle.

27

L-Leucine: Triggers protein synthesis. Take upon waking & before every other meal

BCAA: Prevents muscle breakdown & competes with fatigue-inducing tryptophan, letting you workout harder/longer. Take during workouts.

28

Got my delivery yesterday. Worst tasting stuff ever. and that shit doesnt mix for anything.

29

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Got my delivery yesterday. Worst tasting stuff ever. and that shit doesnt mix for anything. [/quote]

Use warm water, put it in a shaker, shake every so often and let it sit if you have the time to do that. If not just dump some in your mouth and chase with water.

30

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Got my delivery yesterday. Worst tasting stuff ever. and that shit doesnt mix for anything. [/quote]

Use warm water, put it in a shaker, shake every so often and let it sit if you have the time to do that. If not just dump some in your mouth and chase with water.[/quote]

Or add lemon juice, the citric acid helps the mixing.

31

[quote]roon12 wrote:

Or add lemon juice, the citric acid helps the mixing.[/quote]

The first thing I do when I wake up is add a crap ton of different powders (ALCAR, BCAA’s, Creatine, lemons Etc) into warm water which does a phenomenal job of dissolving all of them. Defiantly a good way to start the day.

32

I’ve personally found taking additional BCAAs outside WO period has also helped with DOMs and general recovery more so than, for example, whey alone.

As for flavouring issues, any sugar-free juice concentrate does the job. It’s cheap, lasts a while and is low in kcals and carbs.

33

Cheers guys guna have to try these ideas, in cold water it just sits on top like a fucking twilight inspired marsh mallow.

I thought HMB tasted bad a few years back when i tried that, but this stuff is far worse.

Definitely try the warm warm water trick with some lemon.