Knock Out the Next White Person Who Walks By

[MaximusB]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

No I would not off them at birth, I think it would take some time for them to exhibit this behavior.

When they do, they will not change.[/quote]

Aha. But “exhibiting the behavior” can take on many forms.

So, like, when little Johnny tortures, kills, or sexually mutilates an animal (and again, what’s the species cutoff? Puppies? Kittens? Birds? Frogs?), then we put a bullet in the brain pan? Or do we wait until he actually attacks a human? Does his age at the time matter? It shouldn’t, if he was “wired this way from birth.”

[/quote]

We could use baseball as an example…3 strikes and you’re out.

[Varqanir]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

No I would not off them at birth, I think it would take some time for them to exhibit this behavior.

When they do, they will not change.[/quote]

Aha. But “exhibiting the behavior” can take on many forms.

So, like, when little Johnny tortures, kills, or sexually mutilates an animal (and again, what’s the species cutoff? Puppies? Kittens? Birds? Frogs?), then we put a bullet in the brain pan? Or do we wait until he actually attacks a human? Does his age at the time matter? It shouldn’t, if he was “wired this way from birth.”

[/quote]

We could use baseball as an example…3 strikes and you’re out. [/quote]

Right, but do your strikes start accruing in Major League, Minor League, or Little League?

If nine-year-old little Johnny rapes his cousin Sally and stabs his parents to death with an ice pick shortly after his Uncle Budd touches Johnny’s Willy, does Johnny get the Chair, does Budd, or do they both?

[c_m_l]

Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”

[Varqanir]

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope.

[RyuuKyuzo]

Put a bullet in his head, bill his family for the bullet and call it a day.

[Bauber]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. But agreed go after Murder 2 and would probably end up with manslaughter as a plea.

[Varqanir]

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post.

[Mr_Walkway]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post. :P[/quote]

where does the hate crime aspect factor in?

[Varqanir]

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post. :P[/quote]

where does the hate crime aspect factor in?[/quote]

Malice includes the feeling of hatred. All malicious and unlawful homicide is by definition a “hate crime”.

I think it’s a stupid distinction to call only interracial crimes “hate crimes”, but it’s a nice catchy phrase for people who don’t like to think too much.

[Mr_Walkway]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post. :P[/quote]

where does the hate crime aspect factor in?[/quote]

Malice includes the feeling of hatred. All malicious and unlawful homicide is by definition a “hate crime”.

I think it’s a stupid distinction to call only interracial crimes “hate crimes”, but it’s a nice catchy phrase for people who don’t like to think too much.

[/quote]

sure, but how would it factor into this case?

[Bauber]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post. :P[/quote]

Lol yeah because I misread the first time.

[Jewbacca]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post. :P[/quote]

Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.

That said, the white victim died of his wounds.

“Union Square â??I hate white peopleâ?? beating victim dies at Bellevue Hospital”

http://pix11.com/2013/09/09/union-square-beating-victim-dies-at-bellevue-hospital/#ixzz2eVElj3bY

[Varqanir]

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.[/quote]

Well, I’m no lawyer (I’m not even Jewish!) but I can read the law.

New York Penal Law states:

S 125.20 Manslaughter in the first degree.
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

S 125.25 Murder in the second degree.
A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when with intent to cause death to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

The difference is in the intent. “I never meant to kill him” is a defense for murder, but not manslaughter.

The definition of Murder 1 in New York is hilarious. Kill a hooker or a cab driver or a bike messenger, it’s murder 2. Kill a cop, automatic murder 1.

[Jewbacca]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.[/quote]

Well, I’m no lawyer (I’m not even Jewish!) but I can read the law.

New York Penal Law states:

S 125.20 Manslaughter in the first degree.
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

S 125.25 Murder in the second degree.
A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when with intent to cause death to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

The difference is in the intent. “I never meant to kill him” is a defense for murder, but not manslaughter.

The definition of Murder 1 in New York is hilarious. Kill a hooker or a cab driver or a bike messenger, it’s murder 2. Kill a cop, automatic murder 1. [/quote]

Intent is imputed depending on the level of force and type of force used.

If death or “grievious bodily injury” is a “natural and likely outcome” of the force, then it is murder.

For example, you can’t say “I meant to shoot him in the leg” and get manslaughter. You’ll get murder. Same for bats, knives, etc.

Fist in the back of the head? Depends on who you hit, what kind of shape they were in, and who you are. Old feeble guy like this? Probably murder 2.

[Varqanir]

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.[/quote]

Well, I’m no lawyer (I’m not even Jewish!) but I can read the law.

New York Penal Law states:

S 125.20 Manslaughter in the first degree.
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

S 125.25 Murder in the second degree.
A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when with intent to cause death to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

The difference is in the intent. “I never meant to kill him” is a defense for murder, but not manslaughter.

The definition of Murder 1 in New York is hilarious. Kill a hooker or a cab driver or a bike messenger, it’s murder 2. Kill a cop, automatic murder 1. [/quote]

Intent is imputed depending on the level of force and type of force used.

If death or “grievious bodily injury” is a “natural and likely outcome” of the force, then it is murder.

For example, you can’t say “I meant to shoot him in the leg” and get manslaughter. You’ll get murder. Same for bats, knives, etc.

Fist in the back of the head? Depends on who you hit, what kind of shape they were in, and who you are. Old feeble guy like this? Probably murder 2.[/quote]

I guess we’ll see.

[StevenF]

[quote]Bauber wrote:
And of course I am sure he didn’t pick the first white person just the first white person who happened to be old and would never be able to really put up a fight.
[/quote]

this. always this.

[UtahLama]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Al or Jessie should be along any moment. [/quote]

Yep, I expect Al to have the DA on his show tonight and press for hate crime charges.

[orion]

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Christ, could your hypotheticals be more morbid?

I agree that there should be less leniency for some crimes (sexual abuse for example) but you aren’t about to isolate genetics and summarily convict people. A predisposition does not imply preordinance.

Anyways, to play devil’s advocate, does a punch that results in death more closely resemble involuntary manslaughter rather than murder? He didn’t proclaim “I’m going to kill the next white man I see.”[/quote]

In answer to your first question, yes. Yes, they could.

Perhaps predisposition does not equate behavior, much as having high risk factors doesn’t guarantee you’ll get cancer or AIDS, but having fully catalogued the genome I’ll bet we find plenty of rich couples playing “Gattaca” with their fertilized eggs, only letting the fittest, most physically attractive, and least likely to be a psychopath, serial killer or dumbass loser survive.

I would say that the worst they can get him for is second-degree murder, or at very least first-degree manslaughter. There was no intent to kill, only to cause severe bodily harm. If I were the DA, I would try to prosecute Murder 2, but accept a Manslaughter 1 plea bargain, knowing that I might not get a conviction.

Oh wait… the guy’s black? Never mind. Murder in the First Degree. Somebody get a rope. [/quote]

He consciously hit him and caused his death. I would vote for Murder 2. No way in hell manslaughter. He intentionally acted in an unlawful criminal way and ended up killing someone. [/quote]

Right. The very definition of first-degree manslaughter. Acting with intent to cause severe bodily harm, which results in the death of another person.

If the DA can prove intent to kill, then murder 2. If not, manslaughter 1.

If they can find someone who will testify that they heard the suspect say “imma KILL that cracka ass cracka!” Then you’ve got intent, premeditation, AND malice. Murder 1.

“Imma fuck up the next cracka ass cracka I see!” Is a statement of intent, but to harm, not to kill. Manslaughter 1.

EDIT: Crap. You ninja-edited your post to agree with me while I was working on a refutation of your original post. :P[/quote]

Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.

That said, the white victim died of his wounds.

“Union Square Ã??Ã?¢??I hate white peopleÃ??Ã?¢?? beating victim dies at Bellevue Hospital”

http://pix11.com/2013/09/09/union-square-beating-victim-dies-at-bellevue-hospital/#ixzz2eVElj3bY [/quote]

Ach come, on.

Lives with his mother, takes care of her, likes trains and comics and drives elderly ladies to the doctor if they need to go there.

I mean, thats no master of the universe by any means but to be snuffed out like a cigarette…

meh.

[orion]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.[/quote]

Well, I’m no lawyer (I’m not even Jewish!) but I can read the law.

New York Penal Law states:

S 125.20 Manslaughter in the first degree.
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

S 125.25 Murder in the second degree.
A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when with intent to cause death to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

The difference is in the intent. “I never meant to kill him” is a defense for murder, but not manslaughter.

The definition of Murder 1 in New York is hilarious. Kill a hooker or a cab driver or a bike messenger, it’s murder 2. Kill a cop, automatic murder 1. [/quote]

Intent is imputed depending on the level of force and type of force used.

If death or “grievious bodily injury” is a “natural and likely outcome” of the force, then it is murder.

For example, you can’t say “I meant to shoot him in the leg” and get manslaughter. You’ll get murder. Same for bats, knives, etc.

Fist in the back of the head? Depends on who you hit, what kind of shape they were in, and who you are. Old feeble guy like this? Probably murder 2.[/quote]

I guess we’ll see.
[/quote]

I think he is saying that in some American jurisdictions there is a dolus eventualis.

Meaning, you had no direct intent to kill someone, but you must have known that this is the likely outcome, you just did not give a fuck.

So, hit him in the chest and his heart stops by a freak accident, manslaughter, punch him in the throat full force, you knew the most likely outcome, whether you wanted it to happen or not.

That is of course a bit fuzzy.

[Varqanir]

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Acting with intent to cause grevious bodily harm is murder 2.

Acting with gross negligence is manslaughter.

Your state may vary.[/quote]

Well, I’m no lawyer (I’m not even Jewish!) but I can read the law.

New York Penal Law states:

S 125.20 Manslaughter in the first degree.
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

S 125.25 Murder in the second degree.
A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when with intent to cause death to another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person.

The difference is in the intent. “I never meant to kill him” is a defense for murder, but not manslaughter.

The definition of Murder 1 in New York is hilarious. Kill a hooker or a cab driver or a bike messenger, it’s murder 2. Kill a cop, automatic murder 1. [/quote]

Intent is imputed depending on the level of force and type of force used.

If death or “grievious bodily injury” is a “natural and likely outcome” of the force, then it is murder.

For example, you can’t say “I meant to shoot him in the leg” and get manslaughter. You’ll get murder. Same for bats, knives, etc.

Fist in the back of the head? Depends on who you hit, what kind of shape they were in, and who you are. Old feeble guy like this? Probably murder 2.[/quote]

I guess we’ll see.
[/quote]

I think he is saying that in some American jurisdictions there is a dolus eventualis.

Meaning, you had no direct intent to kill someone, but you must have known that this is the likely outcome, you just did not give a fuck.

So, hit him in the chest and his heart stops by a freak accident, manslaughter, punch him in the throat full force, you knew the most likely outcome, whether you wanted it to happen or not.

That is of course a bit fuzzy. [/quote]

Yeah. My “I guess we’ll see” was more vague than I intended. I guess we’ll see what the DA will try to convict him of, and what defense his attorney offers. I’m guessing that his statements right before the attack will be used to prove that there was no intent to kill, but I’m not as familiar with New York law as Jewbacca obviously is.