I remember when I was a kid a buddy of mine he got me a brand new box of Upper Deck cards for my birthday. I remember going through a few packs and then I stumbled on it, Ken Griffey JR rookie card. Being a kid and all, I was so friggin’ stoked!!!
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
did it the right way[/quote]
speculation. [/quote]
In 50 years he will merely be regarded as a great player who hit alot of home runs in the steroid era. Like it or not he will be lumped in with Bonds, McGwire and Sosa.
Which is unfortunate if he actually was clean, which I believe he was.
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
did it the right way[/quote]
speculation. [/quote]
Yeah but given that he was plagued by injuries…
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.
[quote]ADvanced TS wrote:
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
did it the right way[/quote]
speculation. [/quote]
In 50 years he will merely be regarded as a great player who hit alot of home runs in the steroid era. Like it or not he will be lumped in with Bonds, McGwire and Sosa.
.[/quote]
Hope yer wrong. Maybe at some point PED’s will be normalized within the athletic community and its will be just a new era in baseball. Like juiced ball and when they raised the mound.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.[/quote]
I agree with the majority of your post, but steroids really got entrenched in baseball during the 80s, ala McGwire, Canseco, etc. right when Griffey Jr. started playing.
Definitely 1st ballot HOFer, and I don’t think he used, either.
If he does get lumped, then he’ll be lumped by accusatory journalist douchebags who want to draw attention to themselves, not for any real evidence or proof. If there was proof it would have been out by now.
*oh, and sports talk radio douches too… Steve Hartman, guys like that
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
If he does get lumped, then he’ll be lumped by accusatory journalist douchebags who want to draw attention to themselves, not for any real evidence or proof. If there was proof it would have been out by now.
*oh, and sports talk radio douches too… Steve Hartman, guys like that
[/quote]
Exactly, and unfortunately its usually those douches that have the loudest voice and thus influence public opinion.
Those who were fans and remember him as a clean guy amonst the juicers, will give him even more credit given the fact that he most likely was hitting pitchers hard who were on the sauce.
As for the best ever debate, woulda, coulda, shoulda. We’ll never know. He did have some the the best mechanics at the plate and in the field at his position of all time.
Man he had 10-20 stolen bases in his first ten or so years with seattle and then when he went to the reds it drops way off. I guess they were trying to protect him or he was too hobbled.
Great stats by any measure though. Batting, fielding, running the bases.
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]kross001 wrote:
I’ve always hoped the rumors of his work ethic were exaggerated. [/quote]
I heard he kept his training low profile because he liked that people thought he could just go out and play.[/quote]
That may be the case. Either way I like the guy and like everyone has mentioned he was just fun to watch play the game.
From his wikipedia page, which I’ve never heard about
[quote]Suicide attempt
In January 1988, Griffey, at the age of 18, attempted to commit suicide by swallowing 277 aspirin but wound up in intensive care in Providence Hospital in Mount Airy, Ohio.[39] Griffey, Jr. cited arguments with his father, Ken Griffey, Sr., depression, and anger as reasons for his attempted suicide.[40] On his failed attempt, Griffey, Jr. stated, “It seemed like everyone was yelling at me in baseball, then I came home and everyone was yelling at me there…I got depressed. I got angry. I didn’t want to live.”[40] He stated that he had before contemplated taking his own life, however, he had not acted on it until this incident.[40] After swallowing the aspirin, Griffey’s girlfriend’s mother drove him to the hospital.[40] While in intensive care, he ripped the IV from his arm in order to stop an argument between him and his father.[40] Both Griffey, Jr. and his father have stated that the incident changed their relationship, and there is now more “understanding” on both parts.[40]
[/quote]
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
From his wikipedia page, which I’ve never heard about
[quote]Suicide attempt
In January 1988, Griffey, at the age of 18, attempted to commit suicide by swallowing 277 aspirin but wound up in intensive care in Providence Hospital in Mount Airy, Ohio.[39] Griffey, Jr. cited arguments with his father, Ken Griffey, Sr., depression, and anger as reasons for his attempted suicide.[40] On his failed attempt, Griffey, Jr. stated, “It seemed like everyone was yelling at me in baseball, then I came home and everyone was yelling at me there…I got depressed. I got angry. I didn’t want to live.”[40] He stated that he had before contemplated taking his own life, however, he had not acted on it until this incident.[40] After swallowing the aspirin, Griffey’s girlfriend’s mother drove him to the hospital.[40] While in intensive care, he ripped the IV from his arm in order to stop an argument between him and his father.[40] Both Griffey, Jr. and his father have stated that the incident changed their relationship, and there is now more “understanding” on both parts.[40]
[/quote]
[/quote]
Wow, I did not that. I do seem to remember him (Jr) mentioning, in an interview, a particular event that brought him and his father closer.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.[/quote]
I agree with the majority of your post, but steroids really got entrenched in baseball during the 80s, ala McGwire, Canseco, etc. right when Griffey Jr. started playing.
Definitely 1st ballot HOFer, and I don’t think he used, either.[/quote]
You’re right. I should’ve said that the steroids in baseball thing didn’t really come to light 'til after Griff’s injuries had derailed his career. Unless I see or hear an admission of guilt from Griffey, I’ll just keep on believing he was genetically engineered to play baseball.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately he’s one of those guys I’ll always associate with “what could have been”. [/quote]
Which is weird because he’s still got more home runs than everyone but 4 other players in history, haha.[/quote]
It’s not because he was bad but because he still had that good a carrier while essentially losing, what, 3 or 4 prime years. [/quote]
He’s like those guys, like Ted Williams, that lost time because of wars in that respect.
[quote]Seize wrote:
I remember when I was a kid a buddy of mine he got me a brand new box of Upper Deck cards for my birthday. I remember going through a few packs and then I stumbled on it, Ken Griffey JR rookie card. Being a kid and all, I was so friggin’ stoked!!![/quote]
Haha, nice. I have that card. I have the whole upper deck set from that year with his rookie card basically because he was my favorite player then.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.[/quote]
Exactly. No one who pays attention will include him because he had a normal career WRT to his stats declining as he aged.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately he’s one of those guys I’ll always associate with “what could have been”. [/quote]
Which is weird because he’s still got more home runs than everyone but 4 other players in history, haha.[/quote]
It’s not because he was bad but because he still had that good a carrier while essentially losing, what, 3 or 4 prime years. [/quote]
He’s like those guys, like Ted Williams, that lost time because of wars in that respect.
[/quote]
Not sure if I’d make that comparison 100%, I see what you mean though.
Grif wasn’t get in shot at by ze’ Germans or any of that biz though.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.[/quote]
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/onbase_plus_slugging_season.shtml
Sure, he was juiced out of his mind, but 2001-2004 Bonds may never be topped. And not to mention the fact that from 90-95 he led the league in OPS 5 out of 6 years while averaging 30+ SB and playing a nasty left field. Griffey was great, but Bonds is the GOAT.
/hijack, because Griffey was a beast too. I never got why the backwards hat didn’t catch on more.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.[/quote]
Sure, he was juiced out of his mind, but 2001-2004 Bonds may never be topped. And not to mention the fact that from 90-95 he led the league in OPS 5 out of 6 years while averaging 30+ SB and playing a nasty left field. Griffey was great, but Bonds is the GOAT.
/hijack, because Griffey was a beast too. I never got why the backwards hat didn’t catch on more.[/quote]
I have to agree with this. Bonds had a better eye at the plate and would have been able to reach the 500-500 mark without cheating(Willie Mays is the only player even remotley close to this mark). I think the only thing Griffey really had on bonds was a bit more natural power and the fact he most likely did not cheat(but you never know).
[quote]Anonymity wrote:
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Without the injuries we’d be talking about the best ball player of all-time. His stats during his mid 90’s baseball domination period were mind blowing. And, people who know what was going on won’t lump Griffey in with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc… 'cause he was doing it before the roid reign started creeping in. Even with the injuries he’s gotta be a first ballot HOF’er.[/quote]
Sure, he was juiced out of his mind, but 2001-2004 Bonds may never be topped. And not to mention the fact that from 90-95 he led the league in OPS 5 out of 6 years while averaging 30+ SB and playing a nasty left field. Griffey was great, but Bonds is the GOAT.
/hijack, because Griffey was a beast too. I never got why the backwards hat didn’t catch on more.[/quote]
I have to agree with this. Bonds had a better eye at the plate and would have been able to reach the 500-500 mark without cheating(Willie Mays is the only player even remotley close to this mark). I think the only thing Griffey really had on bonds was a bit more natural power and the fact he most likely did not cheat(but you never know).[/quote]
You can’t compare two players, one of which has used steroids and the other of which has not. What if Griffey had used steroids? You don’t think he would have had a few years with 70+ home runs?
It’s too speculative.
Besides, GOAT is still Babe Ruth.