Wasn’t the claim Muslims in India were peaceful non-violent group?
Jesus… I love when pretentious posters come on here and act like they’re the only learned posters around.
Have a nice day Verne.
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Lol. It’s funnier when said posters pull the “you have no argument, so you resort to personal attacks!” card in the very same post where they personally attack you.
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“Which ones?”
Most of them in the middle east.
“It’s legal to abort your growing child in the United States. Glass house and all that.”
Again proving my point that you are making a relativistic argument. While I agree abortion is extreme it isn’t the same thing as throwing acid in women’s faces or pushing gays off rooftops. But it’s besides the point because what America does or doesn’t do has no logical impact on the morality of what Muslims do.
“How many U.S. citizens have been killed by radical Islamists since
9/11 (you’re welcome to include 9/11)? In that same time frame, how many
people have been killed (homicides) in a major city like Chicago, NY,
or even Baltimore? How about globally, how many homicides have occurred
globally that are not related to radical Islam v. homicides that have?”
Again with the moral relativism. How bad Americans are or aren’t has 0 rational impact on the subject of discussion. Getting a finger chopped off is bad regardless of the fact that other people have had arms chopped off.
“I bet one side is significantly larger than the other without even looking.”
Yup, and?
“I’m not really sure what you mean by this? Do you mean they
agree with it via speech, okay, so what? What does “not an insignificant
portion” mean? 5%, 30%, 90%, etc…?”
Inciting and supporting violence matters. Protected free speech can still be both immoral and rightfully reflect negatively on the people speaking. There are FBI numbers on mosque that preach violence in the US (if I recall it’s something like 9%) but mostly I think you should just get out more. Arabic twitter loudly supports these attacks every time they happen.
“I did not say no leaders are radical.”
Maybe I miss read you then “almost no other Muslims agree with”
"Do you know what this whole line of logic reminds me of? When morons
say that all white people need to accept that a not insignificant
portion of white people are racists and it’s our responsibility to take
the initiative to end racism by accepting that we’re racists.
That’s fucking nonsense. Why would a peaceful Muslim living in
Montana give a shit what some brainwashed asshat in Afghanistan is
doing? "
That is a poor comparison for a number of reasons. Islam is a voluntarily entered profession of faith in a set of beliefs codified in a number of books. Muslims (or Christians, or KKK members, or NRA members, or Peta activists) share an ideological link not inherent to things like “race”. A peaceful Muslim should care what other significant groups of Muslims are doing
in the name of Islam while quoting the Koran because a peaceful Muslim espouses the absolute truth of the Koran. I would definitely care if African Christians started large scale witch trials and I’d support doing what it took to end it. And if the problem were large enough and widespread enough, I wouldn’t call myself a Christian.
But fine, all of that aside, let me ask you something. Why does modern Islam still have so many problems with terrorism and medieval belief systems? If Islam is just like being white or Christian, why are the results so different? What is the difference then?
Ya:
His example involved the Pakistani Military and some Muslim militia groups quelling a rebellion in Bangladesh, which was a part of Pakistan at the time, doesn’t cut it.
The funny part is that I’m 100% on board with sending ground forces into Iraq and Syria and probably Libya and Afghanistan to fucking obliterate ISIS and other groups, but I’m the asshole because I don’t think 1.6B people should be blamed for the actions of a small percentage of what is arguably not even a part of that group.
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How big of a percentage do you think it is and how big a percentage would it take for you to change your mind?
% terrorists
% materially support terrorism (this would include a number of large states in the world)
% that ideologically support terrorism or at least it’s goals
% that refuse to condemn or fight against it as fence riders
% outright against violence in Islam
Serious question.
I will address the rest later. do not compare what I’ve done to what the Myth did. the myth at no point ever presented an argument of any sort. All that moron was able to do was attack personally. if I treated him with total disrespectit’s, because he is not worthy of anyone’s respect. If he had presented an argument even a bad one he would have received respect. As to my saying educate yourself I’m sorry if you think that’s condescending. I’ll educate you you seem to want it. I’ll get back to you later
Then there’s plenty of examples of Muslim violence in India, not just terrorism. The Hindu-Muslim conflict has lead to thousands dead over the decades.
DoubleDuce, I think those are reasonable questions.
Here’s the problem, though. I work in a hospital; it may or may not surprise you to know that the healthcare profession is LOADED with people of international origin (I work with a lot more guys named Ahmad, Rohit, Suresh, Vinay, and Kathir than Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). And I don’t see how any of those guys are connected to terrorist attacks just because they’re Muslim. So I’m not ready to condemn my friends who are Muslim because some loon-calling-himself-a-Muslim drove a truck into a crowd, the same way I’d like to not be condemned for a white Christian guy walking into a black church and shooting up the place. Which is why I included usmc’s post here at the top - I don’t see a connection between my Muslim friends and ISIS, so I’m struggling to figure out why we have to deport / ban / imprison people who identify as Muslim.
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Well, I haven’t actually condemned anybody, just pointing out the facts. There is a sizable portion of Muslims that at a minimum support violence vocally. And it is disproportionately large in comparison to other modern religions. That may or may not be enough for you (or me) to start condemning the religion as a whole, but it is what it is.
That’s not an answer DD.
What percentage of the 1.6B Muslims on this planet throw acid in a women’s face?
People on here want to condemn 1.6B people because of the actions of a very small percentage of that group yet are own house isn’t in order. That’s not moral relativism that’s called pulling the plank out of your own eye before trying to romove the splinter from your brothers.
I’m not saying these things aren’t bad. Once again, we should go kill these terrorist groups and be done with it even if it’s just temporarily.
We should clean up our own fucked up kitchen before we start pointing out the dirty dishes in someone else’s.
Lol, don’t take this personally, but if getting out more means reading Arabic Twitter, I’m gonna pass. Should I read stormfront or the KKKs Twitter or other garbage like that? People run their mouths when they’re safely behind a computer, I don’t really care and I don’t understand why people do.
You think Islam is voluntary in Afghanistan?
There are significant difference in Islam much like there are significant difference amongt various denominations of Christianity. Most of the violence occurs in a specifc geographics region. I don’t believe it is rational to expect a Shitte Muslim born in Montana to condemn or even pick up arms against a ISIS in Iraq (being entirely Sunni and a crazy interpretation at that). That is similiar to saying a black guy from rural Alabama is responsible for the actions of a black Crip in Balimore City. I don’t agree with that.
Many of them do.
I believe a peaceful Afghani should care what violent Afghani’s are doing. I think peaceful Iraqi’s should pick up arms to fight ISIS in Iraq. I don’t think a peaceful Shite in Montana is responsible for cleaning up the Middle East.
The way I see it, is that if African Christian’s started large scale witch trials then they are not Christians at all. I see it the same way with Islam.
I think it is mainly because the vast majority of the problems occur and in fact arise out of some of the poorest most backward countries on the planet. These people act like they’re in the dark ages because their countries are essential just like they were in the dark ages.
Change my mind to what? That Islam is bad, period. 100% I guess. I prefer to judge each individual based on the content of their character. There are too many factors for generalized judgments, imo.
Fantastic, thanks for the insightful post about something we weren’t discussing.
There are a sizable number of black Americans that at a minimum support violence vocally (BLM for example). Are all black people responsible for correcting these people?
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The Hindu-Muslim conflict refutes your claim of the 100M Muslims being non-violent
Do you not understand how context works?
For the record Verne, I never attempted to argue with you because your point was so stupid it seemed like satire.
I’m well aware of the structure of argument and the employment of rhetorical devices. In fact, my portrayal of your inability to convey a reasonable message appealed to the pathos of readers in an attempt to undermine your ethos and certainly was not ad hominem in that it attacked your ideas and not you personally.
You should also be aware that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source in academic circles, something this ignorant fool learned while earning my first graduate degree. You shouldn’t interpret somebody’s unwillingness to engage in discourse as a lack of intelligence or education. Sometimes it’s just an unwillingness to engage in a useless attempt to change a racist attitude that another person holds to in an attempt to feel better about themselves. In other words, you"re just not worth the effort.
Now, feel free to go back to your name calling, and please do start with me. I find it entertaining.
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"That’s not an answer DD. "
Here’s 53 in Saudi Arabia:
But literally there are so many, you are asking me to spam you.
“What percentage of the 1.6B Muslims on this planet throw acid in a women’s face?”
FAR FAR FAR too many.
"People on here want to condemn 1.6B people because of the actions of a
very small percentage of that group yet are own house isn’t in order.
That’s not moral relativism that’s called pulling the plank out of your
own eye before trying to romove the splinter from your brothers.
I’m not saying these things aren’t bad. Once again, we should go kill
these terrorist groups and be done with it even if it’s just
temporarily. "
I’ve condemned no one. And no, I don’t need to be perfect to speak out against evil.
“We should clean up our own fucked up kitchen before we start pointing out the dirty dishes in someone else’s” Again, what we do and what terrorists do aren’t morally equivalent. It isn’t dirty dishes and dirty dishes. But accepting your comparison, where do you get off wanting to go after the terrorists? You can’t say we should mind our own business because we are baby killers and aren’t any better, then support military force against the same bad guys.
“Lol, don’t take this personally, but if getting out more means reading
Arabic Twitter, I’m gonna pass. Should I read stormfront or the KKKs
Twitter or other garbage like that? People run their mouths when they’re
safely behind a computer, I don’t really care and I don’t understand
why people do.”
Wow. You see equivalence in generic widespread arabic twitter and the KKK’s twitter account? Now who’s condemning them? Okay, sounds like you more than agree with me, support for terrorism is pretty widespread in the arabic world.
“You think Islam is voluntary in Afghanistan?”
You think this helps you prove Muslims are peaceful? I agree that it absolutely isn’t. They kill and persecute non-believers. That’s the point, they have a violence problem. I’m not even sure how you thought Muslims violently converting Afghanis (sp?) means Muslims aren’t violent.
"There are significant difference in Islam much like there are
significant difference amongt various denominations of Christianity.
Most of the violence occurs in a specifc geographics region. I don’t
believe it is rational to expect a Shitte Muslim born in Montana to
condemn or even pick up arms against a ISIS in Iraq (being entirely
Sunni and a crazy interpretation at that). That is similiar to saying a
black guy from rural Alabama is responsible for the actions of a black
Crip in Balimore City. I don’t agree with that. "
No, it isn’t. I already listed a number of reasons why it is different and you just ignored them. But even besides that I think it rational and completely expect all peaceful good people (much more so Muslims) to condemn radical muslimn massacres. You don’t think it’s reasonable to expect your Montanan to condemn the attack in Nice? Why the hell not?
“Many of them do.”
I was only answering your questioning of why they should. Glad you agree with me that they should care.
"I believe a peaceful Afghani should care what violent Afghani’s are
doing. I think peaceful Iraqi’s should pick up arms to fight ISIS in
Iraq. I don’t think a peaceful Shite in Montana is responsible for
cleaning up the Middle East. "
Ok. Not sure who you were talking to though. Not sure where I (or anyone else) said the guy in Montana is responsible for cleaning up the middle east.
"The way I see it, is that if African Christian’s started large scale
witch trials then they are not Christians at all. I see it the same way
with Islam. "
And what if twitter in the US (and people you know at your church) largely praised the burnings and called for more of them? What if your pastor said that the witches were mostly to blame?
“I think it is mainly because the vast majority of the problems occur and
in fact arise out of some of the poorest most backward countries on the
planet. These people act like they’re in the dark ages because their
countries are essential just like they were in the dark ages.”
Well, this is patently untrue in the recent attacks. Most are educated and wealthy. Not to mention non-muslim poor countries don’t have this problem. This also necessitates the discussion of the link between economic repression and Islam. It may be at least partially true that radical Islam creates the poor as much as the other way around.
"Change my mind to what? That Islam is bad, period. 100% I guess. I
prefer to judge each individual based on the content of their character.
There are too many factors for generalized judgments, imo. "
Do you think 100% of KKK members are bad? You are honestly arguing against all group distinctions in judgments? that seems a little too extreme even for me.
I have already explained the deference between a race and a subscribed ideology. You need to either address my argument or stop using the reference to remain logically consistent…
[quote=“DoubleDuce, post:80, topic:219500”]
I’ve condemned no one. [/quote]
You’re killing me DD. I said, “People on here want to condemn…” I didn’t say “DD is condemning…” I’m speaking in general.
Didn’t say this. Didn’t imply this…
No, I’m saying it is wrong to blame 1.6B people for the problem of radical jihadism when our 320M can’t seem to fix our murder problem. Or our gang problem. Or our drug problem. Or our corrupt politician problem. Or so on and so forth. If we’re going to start blaming and entire group for the actions of a small portion of that group we might want to fix our own problems first. That doesn’t mean you can’t speak out against evil or that you shouldn’t. It means not condemning (not saying you specifically remember I was talking to someone else before you addressed me) a group of people for the actions of a few.
What? I’m dismissing them both as garbage, nothing more.
I’ve never read arabic twitter or the KKK’s twitter or BLMs twitter. As with most things I bet it’s the loud minority running their suck on twitter.
I am in no way trying to prove Muslims are peaceful. I am simply saying that the entire group of people all 1.6B of them should be judged by their individual actions not the actions of a portion of their group. I don’t understand what is so hard to understand about that. It’s the exact same argument I and probably you would use when someone says we need to ban handguns or “assault weapons”. The actions of some do not correlate to the actions of all.
Okay, whatever you say, boss.
I never said it isn’t reasonable for Montana man to condemn the attack. I said, “I don’t think a peaceful Shite in Montana is responsible for cleaning up the Middle East.” If you’d like to continue this conversation stop twisting my words.
Every reasonable person on the planet should care. I’ve never said anything to the contrary.
People have typed things like, it’s Islams problem, Muslims need to solve it, we can’t solve it for them. Well, a significant percentage of Muslims live outside of the Middle East and have no reason or even way to combat extremism there. Why would they?
I mean, we’ve done that and I don’t think these people were or would be real Christians either. It fly’s completely in the face of what Jesus teaches.
Depends on how you define bad probably, but probably yes. Just like I think all members of ISIS are “bad”. Are you comparing all of Islam to the KKK?
I don’t view the world in strictly black and white terms. How many children are brainwashed into believing Jihad is the only way? Does that make them bad? I mean, I guess, they’re terrorists, but it’s not like they had a choice. Do you think if you had been born in a village in north Iraq when al-Zarqawi was building his network that you would have seen the light of Christ and denounced radical jihad? The answer is more than likely no. You and I and most everyone else would have bought into the brainwashing just as much as the kids being brainwashed in the Middle East today. That doesn’t mean we don’t kill them if circumstance requires it, but we should at the very least pity them.
I’ll read your link when I get a chance.