Thus, irrational. The problem is that believers see the word irrational and assume it’s being used pejoratively.
And how exactly does that make believing in a supernatural being you cannot even explain, because he is beyond human comprehension, rational?
Not this believer
There is no proof that there is a God or there isn’t a God. Regardless which position you take the origin of everything should have a rational answer.
God is an easy rationale.
No God leads to just the same question, “And what started that?” Where there is no rational answer in the end.
We can talk in circles from now until the end of time, if there is such a thing. And there is no definitive rational answer apart from a Supreme Being, which you call an irrational answer. So round and round we go.
You must believe what you wish to believe. It is as simple as that.
BTW, the only thing stronger than God is unbelief.
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And who would want to have unbelief and spend eternity weeping and gnashing of the teeth
Why would there be a need to provide proof for everything that isn’t rational to believe exists? Say you got 3 people in a room and ask them how humans came to be. The first says god a supreme being put them there. The second said a rhino took a shit from the sky and it put them there. The next said most clouds might have rain but this one actually had humans.
Your contention is that because we can’t definitively prove all of them wrong then they are all fine? What about just asking them to prove why they think that if I say honestly I don’t think you’ve got proof for any of that? But since we can’t definitely prove rhino shit, human rain cloud, and supreme being aren’t responsible then it is what it is? Doesn’t make much sense to me.
You know like you do for every other thing you ever hear in your life that sounds nuts? Just because we don’t know for sure how everything in the world works doesn’t mean it’s the same as just making something up out of thin air and saying that’s correct.
Think how easy it is to control people when they buy this. I don’t believe everything I read in scary books or movies.
I sleep like a baby knowing Pascal’s Wager is likely horseshit and the odds are hell doesn’t exist.
To each their own
Atheists have it easy. They can sit back and call those who believe in God of being irrational, and because they never critically analyze the origin of everything, they like to assume that their belief is not based on anything irrational. The truth is they never think about it.
So because you give your irrational origin no thought, you believe you are not irrational. Ignorance is bliss.
Please don’t believe that I am trying to change your mind about God. But to assume your belief isn’t based on an irrational foundation only exists because you refuse, or don’t bother to consider it.
I said that three different ways. Maybe it will land.
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That’s not remotely true. I was raised in the church. I’ve been in these discussions numerous times over the years. The idea that agnostics or atheists don’t think about it is complete bulshit and you’re basing that on absolutely nothing.
Look I’m not trying to convince you to not be a believer. No matter how much you shoot down their arguments they won’t change. We have a LONG famous thread on here from years ago where a believer and an atheist or agnostic shot down every single one of his arguments attempted over and over. Like hundreds of posts. Clearly and for everyone to see and no minds were changed.
It’s 1000 times easier to believe that everything happens for a divine reason. 1000 times easier to believe a dead child lives in eternity in a perfect place and you will see that child again and live with them forever.
I can’t just believe stuff because it sounds good. My brain doesn’t work that way. But that does not mean that making stuff up is rational. It just doesn’t.
A person who believes in God has no obligation to prove anything to you, or even themselves. You just are incapable of understanding faith if you think it is based on provable facts (Heb 11:1)
Likewise, the atheist has no obligation to prove anything to me.
The proof is unattainable. I don’t have it and you don’t have it.
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Never said they did. The we were made from rhino shit or human rain clouds don’t have to prove it either. But I would ask the guy who said that for proof. We aren’t obligated to do anything.
I think you pretty much just shot down your whole rational argument right here.
And then shot it down again.
All your claims speak louder to your understanding than anything else. You have no idea how faith comes to be.
I used to agree with you, and i still do to an extent, however i have to remind myself that most of the things i “know” are also lies and models and simplifications, to include most scientific models and theories. What makes my simplifications better than someone elses?
So we went from faith in the unseen is rational, to atheists are lucky, to you just wouldn’t get it dude. Pretty much how these always go. But hey at least the incapable of understanding argument always leave the believer feeling pretty good.
Being “rational” and having “proof” are two distinct categories.
Neither side has proof.
The believer side has a little better rationale for God.
The atheist just doesn’t analyze a rational origin and think about it “every” day.
I’m not sitting around hammering down that I am right on all of this. I’ve always considered myself a bit agnostic probably leaning atheist. I don’t think my positions are “better” they just make more sense to me.
And yes a bunch of stuff we “know” are based off those things no doubt. But that doesn’t mean that making stuff up is rational. It just plain doesn’t. And believers and none believers do this shit ALL the time. If tomorrow on T-Nation an article said this cookie will cause you to lose 20 pounds everyone’s first thought is going to be that’s bullshit and they are clicking the article to figure out how the author came to that bullshit claim. Then the author says it has chocolate chip fat burning fairies and you still think bullshit.
Do you stop yourself and say well we make some assumptions with calories and thermodynamics and everything I’ve read before so I can’t completely dismiss it? Of course not you say that’s bullshit unless you can prove to me.
If the author said you wouldn’t understand you’re incapable of it you’d say this guy is peddling a chocolate chip cookie scam and he’s nuts. Believers and non believers alike would do that. And then we would all say t-nation is apparently gone to crap.
We ask for proof in essentially all walks of life especially with extraordinary claims. And yet with faith for some reason it’s apparently my job to prove it doesn’t exist? Or I just wouldn’t get it? We wouldn’t respond that way if the 20 pound fat loss cookie author said it.
I can’t prove every single negative thing out there nor will I ever be able to. I can’t prove supreme being doesn’t exist, rhino shit didn’t make us, or human cloud rain didn’t make us. I’m not sure why the burden would be on me to do that and not the people making these claims.
You do realize plenty of theories to origin exist right? Like what thousands over history? And I don’t know why you keep making the lazy type argument. It’s about as weak as the you just wouldn’t get it man stuff.
I may do that, as a fellow atheist, but i don’t necessarily expect other people to do that.
I strongly disagree with @RT_Nomad views on the existence of God, and i’m confident he disagrees with mine. That’s fine, i don’t think less of him because of it.
Edit: i am a bit pissed off my autocorrect is no longer capitalising my I’s.