Everyone agrees on this. No one is saying you should crush your E2 levels to the point that you’ll have obvious brain/heart/organ issues. But, there aren’t any studies showing whether keeping E2 at somewhat normal levels, say 50 instead of 80, is causing long term harm. The studies just don’t exist. Most people would be less than 50 anyways even if they were healthy and didn’t need TRT, so what’s the difference in that case?
I don’t mean any of this to sound like I’m pro AI, I really don’t, because I’m not. In general I think almost no one needs them so pretty much everything else should be tried first, but I also don’t really do black and white, everything is gray to me.
This seems to be the problem with some people, they believe if you take an AI, you are crushing your E2. There is no in-between with them. Now, Arima does have side effects. And taking too much can cause problems.
Unfortunately, not everyone, especially here, agrees on this. The difference is that someone on exogenous testosterone needs to let his body regulate aromatase. In other words “normal” levels of someone on testosterone, are different from “normal” levels of someone not taking T.
We’re not talking about taking too much of an AI to “crush” E2 levels. We’re talking about talking an AI that has no way to differentiate where to stop aromatase in the body. It may be stopping aromatase specifically where it’s needed the most. So again, a little poison may or may not be as bad as a lot of poison, but it’s still detrimental.
And as @dbossa has said numerous times, it’s something else wrong with the protocol, not the E2 causing the issue. At the beginning of being on trt, I tried T only, without an AI. I felt like crap. I started using an AI, and felt better. Of course, just beginning the AI use, I hadn’t started having joint issues yet. At that time, I had no idea that I could’ve felt even better without the AI, if I only knew how to adjust my T protocol.
Once I ditched the AI, and let my body start to regulate itself, I started to feel better than ever. And the joint pain was gone. I’m not convinced that my current protocol is the most optimal possible for me, but since I cannot get a higher prescription of T from my current Dr., I may never know what optimal is.
You clearly took too much and lowered your e2 to an unhealthy point.
You’ve haven’t presented any actual data to go with your argument. You’re just saying “some AI to no AI”. You probably had e2 of 5pg and now it’s 30pg and you feel good. Great! That’s how it should be. But your experience may be far different than someone else’s, and that’s where that open mindedness you talk about comes into play.
We are all here because our bodies are shit at doing this. Otherwise we wouldn’t be on exogenous hormones to begin with. Not everyone can just “let things go” when it comes to this.
Look, I’m not arguing just for the sake of arguing. You feel good and found what works and that’s great. We all want that. But my path isn’t going to be your path, and vice versa
Just give up this dude already, proven fraud 1000 times now, no serious dude consider his opinions no more, most docs are starting to distance themselves.
In my case i gave it a year and starting again has been a bless, IMO if you feel good on it stay on it, my waist line is getting back to where it was and fat around my chest and waist is shedding very quick, i´m not gonna take 300 mg of testosterone which is insane just because it worked for dbossa, lol
I relate to you on everything you say, so you know you are not alone.
It isn´t, there are thousands of men using AI for long periods of time no issues as long as you don´t tank your E2, since i started it again i never felt better.
That is on women at 1 mg per day dose, even with that you don´t have more women suffering form any vascular disease when they are on AI for breast cancer
That’s just false! I just told you about the joint issues that I had, and I never “tanked” my E2. Not to mention the damage I may have caused by stopping aromatase. Seriously, stop with the bro science.
@Gossamer this is where you and Dbossa are wrong and think you are the authority on ai use and trt in general.
You are merely expressing your opinion. You need to respect other opinions.
Just because ai users don’t live on the forums you are in doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
And don’t forget many of the forums are filled with guys with issues the ones smooth sailing are mainly not on forums.
My OPINION is that I don’t think MANY (not all) men on trt need an ai if on a reasonable dose.
I can give my personal experience on ai use, and when I used it put but me on a rollercoaster and created joint issues. I used in short term. This experience may apply to no one else… But I think most guys come on this forum to read about experiences. That’s what I like to read. I can do my of own research on articles etc.
It’s like ksman telling (preaching) everyone to track their waking temperature and to take iodine to make their tsh close to 1.0. This is dangerous.
He also told everyone to take 1 mg ai per 100 mg testosterone. Dangerous.
The guys that push back on ppl like Dbossa I am thankful for! This absolute biased one-way thinking is not good with trt. And worse is they try to push their thinking on newbies who join this forum.
Thank goodness for the different opinions on this forum.
Would you want to be in a forum where you have 1 way mentality? I don’t. That happened with ksman who became an unofficial authority on this forum because there was no one to push back . Makes sense why the forum director wisely considers us all members.
Have you checked prolactin? I have a feeling some of these issues are because of e2 raising PRL. Can you run high e2 if you keep PRL in range? II don’t know
