Is Old Europe Really This Impotent?

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
And you’re right, the Civil War, German wars, and Russo-Japanese gave hints of what was to come…[/quote]

Excellent point here. Had US commanders seriously studied & understood the massive amount of casualties the Japanese were willing to accept tactically fighting the Russians, I say several thousand less US Marines and Army troops would have been killed in the PTO island battles (such as Peliliu, Biak, Iwo, etc) by knowing the enemy mindset, tactics would have been adjusted more efficiently.

Alas, we will never know now, it’s a moot point…(I have made the same argument re the French in Vietnam, the only component of the US Army that learned and triumphed were the Green Berets/SOG/LRRPS: too little too late, thanks to Prez. Johnson and hostility toward SF by conventional Army higher ups toward the boys in the “beanies”…Lesson learned?, this type of avoidable stupidity costs lives…still does today)…

…if i had to choose between the american brand of dictatorship and the russian kind, i’d take the russian’s. After all, the russians are descendants of the normans; true T-men!

Who cares what nationality you are if your political system sucks.

BTW most of the Russians are Slavic.

…there is no political system that doesn’t suck…

Look up Russian History starting in 1237.

[quote]tg2hbk4488 wrote:
The idea of everyone should be equal is all nice and sweet and would be fair…but not realistic. Chad being equal with China…please. China is more important. The only suggestion I would be evening willing to consider would be 1) Remove Franc off permanent seat in security council. They have no historic merit for being there, unless being rescued by from invading forces in both world wars is a requirment for that seat. 2) Totally redue the security council and make the G8 memebers the security council. Original members get to keep veto powers[/quote]

You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. France is one of the most important countries in the history of the world. Few countries, aside from possibly Britain, have as storied a history between Napolean, the French Revolution, the invasions of Russia, the first WWI (Where we did not “rescue” them so much as cooperate.)

You fucking people who call France a coward don’t realize that the French about the same casualties at the Battle of Verdun in 1916 as America did in both WWI and WWII.

Learn some fucking history before you speak out of your ass you stupid fuck.

Second, we have gone what, 70 years without a major, political boundary shaping war. Why? Because of the UN. Is it perfect? No. But going back to the old way of having every country fend for itself leads to massive wars that entangle everyone.

I dare you to find another period in human history like now, where diplomacy is used more than the sword. You warmongering elitist fucks need to realize that we can’t live in the way we did before, and cutting ourselves off will destroy us.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

WW1 trench warfare is hardly modern warfare.

Then you learned modern warfare from the Germans and post-modern warfare from the Iraqis.

Not bad. But the problem is that we learned modern warfare from the French and not the Germans.

You are 100 years behind the times.

Read some history. Modern conventional warfare was born in World War I. Heavy firepower, the thinning of the battlefield, the industrial mobilization of the state for war, etc. Blitzkrieg doctrine was a descendant of German stormtroop tactics of 1918. A century is not that long. For example, the U.S. Army today still has basically the same personnel system it had before World War I.

And FYI, the “early modern” period begins about 1500. 1918 is certainly “modern”.[/quote]

Technically amigo, the American Civil War originated many of the things used in WWI.

Trench warfare was heavily favored by CSA General Pete Longsteet, as shown by the Battle of Petersburg.

Confederates in Charleston sunk the first ship with a submarine, also. Guerilla tactics were heavily used, and it was the first war where the rifle was used extensively instead of the musket. The accuracy was what changed things away from frontal assaults and massed infantry units. Rifled cannons were also used extensively.

The campaigns specifically aimed at breaking the back and spirit of the enemy through the destruction of land was also used, such as the March to the Sea and Sheridan in the Shenandoah Valley. The concept of “Total War”, which would be used for WWI and II, was laid out when Sherman said that he’d make Georgia howl.

The use of ironclads and mines, the use of repeating rifles, gattling guns, the mass transport of troops via railroad instead of marching… there’s a million more.

So although we know I’m not all that nationalistic, it could be said that Americans developed and demonstrated modern warfare first (although, of course, it was unfortunatly on ourselves).

Oh, and also just to mention, the Civil War was, I believe, they debut of aerial warfare- the first use of hot air balloons during war.

re: France

Russia invaded Georgia… and France surrendered

Ba da BING!

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Second, we have gone what, 70 years without a major, political boundary shaping war. Why? Because of the US. [/quote]

Fixed it.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Second, we have gone what, 70 years without a major, political boundary shaping war. Why? Because of the US.

Fixed it.[/quote]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
re: France

Russia invaded Georgia… and France surrendered

Ba da BING! [/quote]

And the stupid strikes again.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
re: France

Russia invaded Georgia… and France surrendered

Ba da BING!

And the stupid strikes again.

A little too close to home???

It was a joke, Mr. “I’m No Fun at Parties.”[/quote]

Oh, I’m sure he’s fun at the types of parties he frequents. He probably never forgets to bring the Uncle Sam/Bush effigy, some beating sticks, a US flag, and a pack of matches.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
re: France

Russia invaded Georgia… and France surrendered

Ba da BING!

And the stupid strikes again.

A little too close to home???

It was a joke, Mr. “I’m No Fun at Parties.”[/quote]

It was a joke of very poor taste – and terribly misinformed at that! Particularly, considering that the most vocal criticisms of the Russian handling of the situation came from the French government. As foolish as it was, they called on the EU to impose sanctions on Russia and downright threatened the country.

You can make a joke without being a dick, you know…

Lixy, please. I don’t know how that pineapple got stuck in your ass, but it’s ruined your sense of humor.

Anyhoo-- here’s just another example of why the UN is as useless as tits on a boar hog:

UN says eat less meat to curb global warming

[i]People should have one meat-free day a week if they want to make a personal and effective sacrifice that would help tackle climate change, the world’s leading authority on global warming has told The Observer

Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chair of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which last year earned a joint share of the Nobel Peace Prize, said that people should then go on to reduce their meat consumption even further.

His comments are the most controversial advice yet provided by the panel on how individuals can help tackle global warning.

Pachauri, who was re-elected the panel’s chairman for a second six-year term last week, said diet change was important because of the huge greenhouse gas emissions and other environmental problems - including habitat destruction - associated with rearing cattle and other animals. It was relatively easy to change eating habits compared to changing means of transport, he said. [/i]

Full story:

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Second, we have gone what, 70 years without a major, political boundary shaping war. Why? Because of the US.

Fixed it.[/quote]

If by fixed you mean fucked up, then yes, I agree.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Lixy, please. I don’t know how that pineapple got stuck in your ass, but it’s ruined your sense of humor. [/quote]

Oh, I do have a sense of humor. But context is everything. If some talentless comedian uses that line somewhere, I won’t say a word. It’s old as hell and nationalist beyond belief, but it’ll still get a pass because of the intent.

Here, you’re using it in a thread that asks “is Old Europe really this impotent”. In that light, and seeing how many people truly believe the French to be a cowering bunch of sissies, I had to set the record straight.

I totally agree with the principle that the UN, in its current form, is utterly useless.

But unlike you, I’ll admit that it’s done more good than bad. And unlike Irish or Zap, I won’t delude myself into thinking that anything other than the massive destructive potential of modern bomb is behind Man not getting into WWIII.

[quote]lixy wrote:

But unlike you, I’ll admit that it’s done more good than bad. And unlike Irish or Zap, I won’t delude myself into thinking that anything other than the massive destructive potential of modern bomb is behind Man not getting into WWIII.[/quote]

That’s a fair point that I actually thought about after I typed my post.

The nuke has probably done more for world peace then the UN.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
lixy wrote:

But unlike you, I’ll admit that it’s done more good than bad. And unlike Irish or Zap, I won’t delude myself into thinking that anything other than the massive destructive potential of modern bomb is behind Man not getting into WWIII.

That’s a fair point that I actually thought about after I typed my post.

The nuke has probably done more for world peace then the UN.[/quote]

Gotta salute your intellectual honesty here.

Cheers!