I guess I am just the lone nut that believes a peaceful and virtuous society is an ideal worth striving for.
Saying something is not possible because it is part of “our nature” is wrong on so many levels. At the very least it is self defeating.
Man’s nature is anchored to the ideals he believes in; especially when he truly believes them possible.
I will never give this struggle up.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I guess I am just the lone nut that believes a peaceful and virtuous society is an ideal worth striving for.
Saying something is not possible because it is part of “our nature” is wrong on so many levels. At the very least it is self defeating.
Man’s nature is anchored to the ideals he believes in; especially when he truly believes them possible.
I will never give this struggle up.[/quote]
This post gave me a different perspective on you. I now know why you are addicted to indefensible positions like you are. This is a much nobler motivation than I have been thinking for a long time.
The trouble is, as oversimplified as this will sound, it’s just not reality. It’s not. The first outfit to disarm in good faith will be the first to get their ass blown off by one the others seizing the opportunity. It’s not possible for there to be more evidence for this.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I guess I am just the lone nut that believes a peaceful and virtuous society is an ideal worth striving for.
Saying something is not possible because it is part of “our nature” is wrong on so many levels. At the very least it is self defeating.
Man’s nature is anchored to the ideals he believes in; especially when he truly believes them possible.
I will never give this struggle up.[/quote]
This post gave me a different perspective on you. I now know why you are addicted to indefensible positions like you are. This is a much nobler motivation than I have been thinking for a long time.
The trouble is, as oversimplified as this will sound, it’s just not reality. It’s not. The first outfit to disarm in good faith will be the first to get their ass blown off by one the others seizing the opportunity. It’s not possible for there to be more evidence for this.[/quote]
I think it is possible, or at least something very close to a voluntary society. I will be the first to admit, however, that it won’t work, nor will it happen under the current political and social paradigm we live in.
What I advocate is not possible because we live in a society – as witnessed by the posts in this thread – where people believe violence is necessary to organize society. This belief has to change. That is what I am trying to do one post at a time.
Our beliefs must be continually challenged with reason and logic and not with bullets and bombs.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The first outfit to disarm in good faith will be the first to get their ass blown off by one the others seizing the opportunity. It’s not possible for there to be more evidence for this.[/quote]
I am not suggesting disarming oneself. I am suggesting:
“Tread lightly but carry a big stick,” on an individual level.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
<<< I think it is possible, or at least something very close to a voluntary society. I will be the first to admit, however, that it won’t work, nor will it happen under the current political and social paradigm we live in.
[/quote]
I don’t believe it will ever be ever possible regardless of what merely political or social paradigm we live in.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
<<< Our beliefs must be continually challenged with reason and logic and not with bullets and bombs. >>>[/quote]
Reason and logic gave us the bullets and bombs and the more advanced the reason and logic becomes the more advanced the bullets and bombs. I know, that has to change right? It won’t. Just watch.
Defeatism: The constant reminder that your life will always suck…and it will because you believe it.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Defeatism: The constant reminder that your life will always suck…and it will because you believe it.
[/quote]
Seriously, if you think life sucks, maybe you shouldn’t measure it’s quality against some unachievable utopian vision of human nature and the resulting society.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
<<< Our beliefs must be continually challenged with reason and logic and not with bullets and bombs. >>>[/quote]
Reason and logic gave us the bullets and bombs and the more advanced the reason and logic becomes the more advanced the bullets and bombs. I know, that has to change right? It won’t. Just watch.[/quote]
Reason and logic supersede the things they bring about. And what if it were not logic that brings about those things but rather just fear of the unknown?
Besides this, that something is logical does not make it good, per se. Logic is nothing more than a method for analyzing truth. Something could be both true and evil.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Defeatism: The constant reminder that your life will always suck…and it will because you believe it.
[/quote]
Seriously, if you think life sucks, maybe you shouldn’t measure it’s quality against some unachievable utopian vision of human nature and the resulting society. [/quote]
Every single one of your arguments has been handily dismantled and yet you still attack with the same line of faulty reasoning.
People change when they change what they believe. Every generation proves this point.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Our beliefs must be continually challenged with reason and logic and not with bullets and bombs.[/quote]
It is both unreasonable and illogical from assuming Man is something that what he is, which is what you do in every single post whre you try to convince us all of your foolish philosophy.
The greatest irony is that despite your claimed devotion to Reason and Logic, you are guilty of abandoning both from the first line of your foolish philosophy.
Your political philosophy is less logic and reason and more akin to, well, voodoo.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Every single one of your arguments has been handily dismantled and yet you still attack with the same line of faulty reasoning.[/quote]
By whom? Certainly not you.
Well, we don’t need generational shifts to see this - we can just watch you and your ever-shifting “flavor of the week” political philosophies. That isn’t a mark of open-mindedness so much as it’s a mark of gullibility.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Defeatism: The constant reminder that your life will always suck…and it will because you believe it.
[/quote]
Seriously, if you think life sucks, maybe you shouldn’t measure it’s quality against some unachievable utopian vision of human nature and the resulting society. [/quote]
Every single one of your arguments has been handily dismantled and yet you still attack with the same line of faulty reasoning.
People change when they change what they believe. Every generation proves this point.[/quote]
Yeah, 'cause lying, fraud, murder, theft, riots, war, are all disappearing. We’ve seen this with each new generation since Guk the caveman discovered how to make fire. Well, no. Seems to be a part of the human condition to me.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Humans certainly aren’t chimps, and we have the gift of reason to grow past the state of nature, but chimpanzees clearly buy into my “lift weights/learn ju-jitsu” plan for prosperity.
[/quote]
This made me laugh. Every new guy in the combat sports forum buys into that too, you snake oil salesman you.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Every single one of your arguments has been handily dismantled and yet you still attack with the same line of faulty reasoning.
[/quote]
You have yet to prove anything. I’m waiting.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am not offering any choice.
I am saying nonaggression always results in a more prosperous society than when aggression is used.
It is logically true.
[/quote]
And yet you have never logically proven it to be true.
So please do so before blabbering.
Start with your assumptions and axioms and then prove within that framework that nonaggression always results in a more prosperous society.
I happen to have a firm grounding in logic, as I’m sure many other posters here have as well, and so I’m excited to see your proof.[/quote]
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Defeatism: The constant reminder that your life will always suck…and it will because you believe it.
[/quote]
My life, despite crushing pressures to provide even the necessities for my family, doesn’t suck. Quite the contrary.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Dustin wrote:
<<< I think it is possible, or at least something very close to a voluntary society. I will be the first to admit, however, that it won’t work, nor will it happen under the current political and social paradigm we live in.
[/quote]
I don’t believe it will ever be ever possible regardless of what merely political or social paradigm we live in.[/quote]
Ever heard of the Free State Project? It’s a large group of like minded (liberty oriented) people moving to one area (Keene, New Hampshire). The community has low taxes, relaxed drug laws (especially weed), and the citizens open-carry. Its communities like Keene that could one day be total voluntary societies.
And if some of you city slickers ever ventured outside your urban dwellings, you would see that there are communities all across the US that have law enforcement for the sole purpose of rescuing cats out of trees and helping elderly ladies cross busy streets. A large percentage of interactions in these communities are voluntary.
And to clarify, due to the social/political paradigm I mentioned previously you are not going to see voluntary/anarchic communities spring up all over the US because people think they need government to take care of them. But to generalize and say that voluntary societies won’t or can’t work is incorrect.
Dustin, give it up, doood!
It’s impossible because, ya know, it’s man’s nature to be aggressive – never mind the fact that he was able to give it up long enough to bring about an industrial revolution and a literacy rate higher than ever before seen in history – it’s just not possible. Man needs to be ruled over like sheep 'cause only the overlord class knows what is right, proper, and good.
Baaa. Baaaa!
Sing it loud and proud!
http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/movie_play.html
…a horrifying collection of lynching pictures from a not so distant american past. Is this what you mean with aggressive society?