Interesting Article on Men & Women

Off Topic
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[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

My problem with women is that we’re living in a transitionary period. We’ve left the age of chivalry, which had both duties and privaledges for both sexes (don’t pretend like women didn’t have it good in a lot of ways), and entered the age of equality, which has freedom for everyone, but with that freedom is supposed to come self-reliance and responsibilty. But most women want to claim the best of both ages, the privalegdes of chivalry, with the freedom of equality, and have no idea what self-reliance or responsiblity are. Even the best women, women who love equality and live the life of self-reliance and responsibilty run back to chivalry when the shit hits the fan.
[/quote]

This

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Broncoandy: your situation sucks. You should not have had to pay child support while having 50% custody. You always having to drive and pay MORE child support also sucks. I hope you win in court.

However, I disagree with you about single moms. Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one. Single moms are much more careful with their sex lives than a single woman so they won’t be up for the one night stand or having sex on the third or fourth date. Single dads, depending on their level of custody might not be as discreet.

The awarding of custody should not be based on gender, EVER. It should be based on who can best provide for the child/children. I have a friend in MI who has been fighting for custody of his child since he knew of her existence which was when she was three. Apparently he had had a one night stand and the girl got pregnant and didn’t tell him. Three years later when welfare stopped paying, she sued him for BACK child support in the amount of $60,000 for a kid he didn’t even know he had! Michigan, being a “mother” state agreed with her and forced him to pay the child support. In the meantime this woman had another kid by her then current bf who liked to knock her around and broke my friend’s kid’s arm. This little girl, by the time she was 5, had had lice 4 times, so bad she had to have her head shave repeatedly. She was always dirty and could wear the same dress at age 6 that she could at age 4. Now tell me that was in the best interest of the kid? Being with her mother, because in MI “children belong with their mother”??? Now that the kid is 8-9 they are trying to get the court to listen to her (as she is past the age of reason) and let her live with my friend, his wife and their daughter (her half sister). Since the kid’s birth mother recently disappeared with her for 3 months to California, we are hoping the courts in MI will finally listen.

I empathize/sympathize with your situation. The whole divorce process, especially pertaining to kids, needs to be re-vamped.

Uncle Gabby: Why can’t men be both chivalrous and treat women equally? It all depends on the situation. My boyfriend treats me as an equal yet he still opens doors for me and closes the car door after I get in. Why can’t chivalry be situational?

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[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
Tell you a story about women and divorce. This is a pretty common situation, and is in no way unique but I think it makes a good example.

My ex-wife and I have 2 children. She used to bitch alot that I worked too much and was never home. One night I came home, and she’d changed the locks. Apperently she was unhappy with me, and wanted more from life than I could give her. So she locked me out of my own home. While I was trying to get in, the cops showed up, and escorted me away (and in doing so enforced her will, and alowed her to entrench herself with the children). So… she’s in my house with my kids, and I’m sleeping in my car after having been arrested.

Now I file court papers asking for shared custody of my kids. I had to fill them out myself, because every lawyer said it was a waste of time. The problems? #1 I’m sleeping in a fucking car, still obligated to pay all the bills on my family’s home so that my kids have a place to live. #2 while I was working 60 hours a week trying to provide for my family, she was acting as their number one caregiver. “The best interest of the child” is apperently that as little change for them as possible - so since she was their primary care giver before, shes going to be now.

So… she’s got my home, my kids, and a great big slice of my income for the next 17 years, and there is NOTHING I can do about it. But I file my papers anyways. And than I say “fuck it”, and close my bank acounts so that the bills aren’t being payed anymore, and I tell her she’d best start paying them herself. So… a few months later we haven’t been to court, and she hasn’t payed any of her bills.

Long story short, I had to be an asshole about it, but I now have joint custody of my children. She moved to a smaller place, I moved into a place, we went to court, signed the papers, and it’s done… But inspite of the fact that my kids are with me almost 50% of the time, I still have to pay her several hundred dollars a month in child support. Why? Because I’m responsible for making sure they have the same standard of livings in both homes. So… she’s still going to be recieving money from me for the next 17 years.

Apperently she has a right to that standard of living, and I have a responsability to pay for it. What’s awsome? Is my support based on a 40 hour work week that she used to bitch I should work? NO ! It’s based on the 60 hour work week she was so unhappy about. Apperently it doesn’t bother her anymore… So a year passes, and she decides that she wants to move a few hours away. So much for my kids being with me 1/2 the time. So… she moves away, and takes my kids with her through the week. They still spend 39.5% of their time with me, but not 50%… and I have to do the driving. Because apperently she has a right to move. But I have a responsability to travel. And my child support goes up several hundred dollars a month more because they’re only with me 39.5% of the time, and not the 40% that would justify a reduction. But they do cut me a little slack for the travel, so I get a little bit off (about enough to pay for 1 trip of the 10 I make every month). She’s not real please about that fuel money, she want’s it.

So I show up one day to pick my kids up… and she pulls a FUCKING TYLER DURDEN. Hits herself in the face repeatedly, and than calls the cops. Now I’m under arrest. And my kids aren’t comming to see me because apperently I’m violent. She’s now got a boyfriend pumping her household full of his income. She also gets about a grand a month in child tax benefits. So their standard of living is quite a bit higher than mine. By the time we’re done in court next month, I’ll probably be living in a van down by the river.

I’ve got 16 years of this left.

If my ex-wife is oppressed I sure as hell am afraid of what it’s gonna be like when she gets some power. Holy shit. [/quote]

this sucks.
I have no answers for any of this thread, it just makes me sad to think there are people out there who use their kids for money and power. Honestly, this is all like a plane crash to me, you see it on TV but never think it can happen to someone you know. The guy I am seeing has horror stories too about his ex and her games and entitlement issues. Its sad and depressing.
My ex husband paid my car for a year after we split, which I greatly appreciated because it meant I could go back and forth to work while I got on my feet again. Never asked for child support as we share custody and although the court deemed he was to pay me because of income differences, I knew he could not afford it. I may not have wanted to be married to him anymore, but as the father of my kid I did not want him broke.
I wouldn’t wish what you are going thru on anyone. What a nightmare.

EDIT: if she has a guy living with her, she should not be having all the child tax credits. Report the bitch.

damn this pisses me off.

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[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one.
[/quote]

I don’t think that’s really a problem for most men. Atleast not to men who’ve been married and have kids of their own.

Also think about it like this: if a man is with a mom, and the kids interupt his blow job than he’s not getting one today. But tommorow she’ll blow him like there’s no tommorow. So it’s all good. If a woman is with a man, and she wants him to provide her and her kids with x,y, or z but his finances are already commited to his exwife, and his kids she’s going to be waiting for a long long time.

And unlike the mom who can make up for it by giving killer head, the man can’t simply go make more money - if he does, he just owes more ! It’s the one debt in life that you can’t out earn, can’t pay off, and the harder you try to compensate the bigger your debt becomes (and inspite of how easy it is to upsize it, it’s retardedly difficult to downsize it if you loose your job or whatnot once it’s been increased).

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[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Broncoandy: your situation sucks. You should not have had to pay child support while having 50% custody. You always having to drive and pay MORE child support also sucks. I hope you win in court.

However, I disagree with you about single moms. Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one. Single moms are much more careful with their sex lives than a single woman so they won’t be up for the one night stand or having sex on the third or fourth date. Single dads, depending on their level of custody might not be as discreet.

The awarding of custody should not be based on gender, EVER. It should be based on who can best provide for the child/children. I have a friend in MI who has been fighting for custody of his child since he knew of her existence which was when she was three. Apparently he had had a one night stand and the girl got pregnant and didn’t tell him. Three years later when welfare stopped paying, she sued him for BACK child support in the amount of $60,000 for a kid he didn’t even know he had! Michigan, being a “mother” state agreed with her and forced him to pay the child support. In the meantime this woman had another kid by her then current bf who liked to knock her around and broke my friend’s kid’s arm. This little girl, by the time she was 5, had had lice 4 times, so bad she had to have her head shave repeatedly. She was always dirty and could wear the same dress at age 6 that she could at age 4. Now tell me that was in the best interest of the kid? Being with her mother, because in MI “children belong with their mother”??? Now that the kid is 8-9 they are trying to get the court to listen to her (as she is past the age of reason) and let her live with my friend, his wife and their daughter (her half sister). Since the kid’s birth mother recently disappeared with her for 3 months to California, we are hoping the courts in MI will finally listen.

I empathize/sympathize with your situation. The whole divorce process, especially pertaining to kids, needs to be re-vamped.

Uncle Gabby: Why can’t men be both chivalrous and treat women equally? It all depends on the situation. My boyfriend treats me as an equal yet he still opens doors for me and closes the car door after I get in. Why can’t chivalry be situational?

[/quote]

Chivalry has nothing to do with women not being equal. However, some of the practices of Chivalry came about because of hierarchy, however nothing to do with not being equal. As long as ya’ll still keep making sammichs and stay in the kitchen. :wink:

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[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one.
[/quote]

I don’t think that’s really a problem for most men. Atleast not to men who’ve been married and have kids of their own.

Also think about it like this: if a man is with a mom, and the kids interupt his blow job than he’s not getting one today. But tommorow she’ll blow him like there’s no tommorow. So it’s all good. If a woman is with a man, and she wants him to provide her and her kids with x,y, or z but his finances are already commited to his exwife, and his kids she’s going to be waiting for a long long time. And unlike the mom who can make up for it by giving killer head, the man can’t simply go make more money - if he does, he just owes more ! It’s the one debt in life that you can’t out earn, can’t pay off, and the harder you try to compensate the bigger your debt becomes (and inspite of how easy it is to upsize it, it’s retardedly difficult to downsize it if you loose your job or whatnot once it’s been increased).[/quote]

Just quit your job, set it up with someone that you work for them yet they do not pay for you, but pay for your bills and anything you “ask for” with in reason.

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I didn’t mean to be all whiney like that btw. It was just the handiest, and most dramatic example. I find there are very few men who make it out of a divorce without a horror story to go with it. I’ve got one, my dad’s got one, my mother’s boyfriend has one, even the Angry Chicken has one.

Anywhere you find divorced men, you will find men that have been absolutely steam rolled by a woman who has taken the laws and rules that are in place to protect her, and twisted them into a weapon to be used as she sees fit against a man who is helpless to defend himself from her.

For women divorce is the end. You get a divorce, and your free. Away you go to get on with your life. For men with kids it’s just the beggining of being at the mercy of someone who from the very start does not care for you at all.

Too many people think “abuse” is a physical thing. If I say “woman abuse” not a single person here doesn’t instantly think of a man hitting a woman. But emotional abuse is harder to think about because there’s no bruising. And economic abuse is even harder to fathom. Power and control is a funny beast.

As for child support at 50% it’s no different than child support at 20%. Your children are supposed to benefit from your income as much as they would have if you hadn’t divorced - 7 days a week regardless of who they’re with.

It’s a good idea in concept, but in implimentation it’s terrible, and it creates more problems than it solves. It also enforces the problem that for women the kids are a cash prize to be won, and all of teh bull shit that comes from that mentality.

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one.
[/quote]

I don’t think that’s really a problem for most men. Atleast not to men who’ve been married and have kids of their own.

Also think about it like this: if a man is with a mom, and the kids interupt his blow job than he’s not getting one today. But tommorow she’ll blow him like there’s no tommorow. So it’s all good. If a woman is with a man, and she wants him to provide her and her kids with x,y, or z but his finances are already commited to his exwife, and his kids she’s going to be waiting for a long long time. And unlike the mom who can make up for it by giving killer head, the man can’t simply go make more money - if he does, he just owes more ! It’s the one debt in life that you can’t out earn, can’t pay off, and the harder you try to compensate the bigger your debt becomes (and inspite of how easy it is to upsize it, it’s retardedly difficult to downsize it if you loose your job or whatnot once it’s been increased).[/quote]

Just quit your job, set it up with someone that you work for them yet they do not pay for you, but pay for your bills and anything you “ask for” with in reason.[/quote]

Not that easy. You see when you loose your job, they say it’s not the kids fault. If your income shows X dollars for a few years running, you have an “income potential”, and if you loose your job, they’ll go ahead and base the support off that anyways. And if you can’t pay it because you lost your job? The government pays it, and than you owe the government money - in a debt that you can’t clear through bankruptcy, etc… You owe that shit for life. It’s setup like that specifically to prevent people from quitting there jobs out of spite. What’s really fucked is that if you loose your overtime, or loose your job legit, it still doesn’t matter.

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Broncoandy, I’m really sorry about your family situation. It sucks, and I would be teeming with bitterness if it were me. Beyond that, I don’t know what to say.

As far as the company I work for vs. the company you work for and ratio of male doctors to female, if you all click open a new window on your browsers you will have access to an entire internet full of statistical data, as I do. What you will find upon looking is that while there are indications that the world is rapidly changing and there is equality of opportunity, there is still significant inequality of outcome for reasons other than “drive” or a willingness to fail.

You have to take into account that our equivalent male and female will not be equal any longer if she has to deal with pregnancy and infant care. Jane and John both go to college and get jobs. They are running neck and neck through their early and mid twenties. But taking time to propagate the species can cause Jane to lag behind John briefly, promotion-wise.

So now Jane and John are both 34, and John is two promotions ahead of Jane. Who looks good for the next big promotion, to partner or junior exec or lead whatever? Not Jane. She looked promising in the beginning but let’s face it, if she were really a go-getter she would be further ahead now than she is.

Also, while I would agree with you, Broncoandy, that a male and a female starting out today can achieve the same level of success given equivalent resources and effort and barring reproduction and the other distractions females face (care of aging parents falls unequally to daughters, for example) this was not true very recently which impacts policy that deals with women not only married last week but three decades ago as well.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/03/10/boards-are-from-mars-but-women-executives-are-not/

The above discusses women’s progress in the world of business. It’s bleak.

For doctoring, I found this: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/reports/physicianworkforce/female.htm

Nearly one in four! Hey, that’s like what I said! Entirely uneven. Also the highest number of women are in pediatrics, obstetrics, and dermatology. Doing girly doctor things. Anyone surprised to hear that female medical students can expect to earn less than their male counterparts, even controlling for specialty? (Not me!)

So, there you have it (“it” being proof of my contentions). While none of you have seemed interested in providing data to back up your claims, I have helpfully done the grunt work for us all. (Now why don’t I make us all a sammich?)

I somehow missed a bunch of posts…Gabby’s post about chivalry is something I really want to talk about, along with women’s advantages historically…but I have to jump in the shower.

Broncoandy, you’re right to be pissed about the way the system can impact men. But it’s a mistake to believe that there aren’t as many women out there suffering in one way or another from having picked a shitty mate.

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[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Broncoandy, I’m really sorry about your family situation. It sucks, and I would be teeming with bitterness if it were me. Beyond that, I don’t know what to say.

As far as the company I work for vs. the company you work for and ratio of male doctors to female, if you all click open a new window on your browsers you will have access to an entire internet full of statistical data, as I do. What you will find upon looking is that while there are indications that the world is rapidly changing and there is equality of opportunity, there is still significant inequality of outcome for reasons other than “drive” or a willingness to fail. You have to take into account that our equivalent male and female will not be equal any longer if she has to deal with pregnancy and infant care. Jane and John both go to college and get jobs. They are running neck and neck through their early and mid twenties. But taking time to propagate the species can cause Jane to lag behind John briefly, promotion-wise. So now Jane and John are both 34, and John is two promotions ahead of Jane. Who looks good for the next big promotion, to partner or junior exec or lead whatever? Not Jane. She looked promising in the beginning but let’s face it, if she were really a go-getter she would be further ahead now than she is. Also, while I would agree with you, Broncoandy, that a male and a female starting out today can achieve the same level of success given equivalent resources and effort and barring reproduction and the other distractions females face (care of aging parents falls unequally to daughters, for example) this was not true very recently which impacts policy that deals with women not only married last week but three decades ago as well.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/03/10/boards-are-from-mars-but-women-executives-are-not/

The above discusses women’s progress in the world of business. It’s bleak.

For doctoring, I found this: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/reports/physicianworkforce/female.htm

Nearly one in four! Hey, that’s like what I said! Entirely uneven. Also the highest number of women are in pediatrics, obstetrics, and dermatology. Doing girly doctor things. Anyone surprised to hear that female medical students can expect to earn less than their male counterparts, even controlling for specialty? (Not me!)

So, there you have it (“it” being proof of my contentions). While none of you have seemed interested in providing data to back up your claims, I have helpfully done the grunt work for us all. (Now why don’t I make us all a sammich?)

I somehow missed a bunch of posts…Gabby’s post about chivalry is something I really want to talk about, along with women’s advantages historically…but I have to jump in the shower.

Broncoandy, you’re right to be pissed about the way the system can impact men. But it’s a mistake to believe that there aren’t as many women out there suffering in one way or another from having picked a shitty mate.[/quote]
Most doctors in my country are women. Out of the young ones, 3 out of 4 are women. Women also hold like half or more of the seats in the parliament. I can’t remember exactly.

Anyway, men will be overrepresented at the top because of said drive as well as natural aggression and the fact that there are far more men with exceptionally high IQ. Men are also most of the homeless, suicides, drug addicts, occupational deaths (95% or something) and overrepresented at the bottom in general. It’s all sort of natural. Feminists just don’t care about the fact that the coin has two sides. They want to see women at the top of this or that because they believe women bring something of special importance to those fields of influence although they are keen of saying, from the other side of their mouth, that gender is just a social construct and that men and women are the same. Except when women are superior of course.

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[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Broncoandy: your situation sucks. You should not have had to pay child support while having 50% custody. You always having to drive and pay MORE child support also sucks. I hope you win in court.

However, I disagree with you about single moms. Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one. Single moms are much more careful with their sex lives than a single woman so they won’t be up for the one night stand or having sex on the third or fourth date. Single dads, depending on their level of custody might not be as discreet.

The awarding of custody should not be based on gender, EVER. It should be based on who can best provide for the child/children. I have a friend in MI who has been fighting for custody of his child since he knew of her existence which was when she was three. Apparently he had had a one night stand and the girl got pregnant and didn’t tell him. Three years later when welfare stopped paying, she sued him for BACK child support in the amount of $60,000 for a kid he didn’t even know he had! Michigan, being a “mother” state agreed with her and forced him to pay the child support. In the meantime this woman had another kid by her then current bf who liked to knock her around and broke my friend’s kid’s arm. This little girl, by the time she was 5, had had lice 4 times, so bad she had to have her head shave repeatedly. She was always dirty and could wear the same dress at age 6 that she could at age 4. Now tell me that was in the best interest of the kid? Being with her mother, because in MI “children belong with their mother”??? Now that the kid is 8-9 they are trying to get the court to listen to her (as she is past the age of reason) and let her live with my friend, his wife and their daughter (her half sister). Since the kid’s birth mother recently disappeared with her for 3 months to California, we are hoping the courts in MI will finally listen.

I empathize/sympathize with your situation. The whole divorce process, especially pertaining to kids, needs to be re-vamped.

Uncle Gabby: Why can’t men be both chivalrous and treat women equally? It all depends on the situation. My boyfriend treats me as an equal yet he still opens doors for me and closes the car door after I get in. Why can’t chivalry be situational?

[/quote]

Awesome, Greeny. That situation you described with your friend makes me sick to my stomach. I totally agree with your statement that things need to be re-vamped, and that custody should NEVER be based on GENDER.

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[quote]Hot Tamale wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Broncoandy: your situation sucks. You should not have had to pay child support while having 50% custody. You always having to drive and pay MORE child support also sucks. I hope you win in court.

However, I disagree with you about single moms. Single moms are seen as “a lot of work” because they have a kid, who is number one in their lives while the man they are dating wants to be number one and cannot reconcile the fact that he might one day come to be co-number one, but he won’t ever be THE number one. Single moms are much more careful with their sex lives than a single woman so they won’t be up for the one night stand or having sex on the third or fourth date. Single dads, depending on their level of custody might not be as discreet.

The awarding of custody should not be based on gender, EVER. It should be based on who can best provide for the child/children. I have a friend in MI who has been fighting for custody of his child since he knew of her existence which was when she was three. Apparently he had had a one night stand and the girl got pregnant and didn’t tell him. Three years later when welfare stopped paying, she sued him for BACK child support in the amount of $60,000 for a kid he didn’t even know he had! Michigan, being a “mother” state agreed with her and forced him to pay the child support. In the meantime this woman had another kid by her then current bf who liked to knock her around and broke my friend’s kid’s arm. This little girl, by the time she was 5, had had lice 4 times, so bad she had to have her head shave repeatedly. She was always dirty and could wear the same dress at age 6 that she could at age 4. Now tell me that was in the best interest of the kid? Being with her mother, because in MI “children belong with their mother”??? Now that the kid is 8-9 they are trying to get the court to listen to her (as she is past the age of reason) and let her live with my friend, his wife and their daughter (her half sister). Since the kid’s birth mother recently disappeared with her for 3 months to California, we are hoping the courts in MI will finally listen.

I empathize/sympathize with your situation. The whole divorce process, especially pertaining to kids, needs to be re-vamped.

Uncle Gabby: Why can’t men be both chivalrous and treat women equally? It all depends on the situation. My boyfriend treats me as an equal yet he still opens doors for me and closes the car door after I get in. Why can’t chivalry be situational?

[/quote]

Awesome, Greeny. That situation you described with your friend makes me sick to my stomach. I totally agree with your statement that things need to be re-vamped, and that custody should NEVER be based on GENDER.[/quote]

There was a time when the girl visited my friend and since she LOVES stickers they put a butterfly sticker on her upper arm, like a tattoo. It was there 2 weeks later when she came back for a visit. Apparently she had not taken a bath since visiting my friend. She was always dirty and wore dirty clothes. There was true evidence of neglect, but MI being a “children belong with their mother” state refused to grant my friend custody.

Being female does not equal mother material. Having a kid does not equal being a mother. Any female can give birth. It takes a real woman to be a mom.

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[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

My problem with women is that we’re living in a transitionary period. We’ve left the age of chivalry, which had both duties and privaledges for both sexes (don’t pretend like women didn’t have it good in a lot of ways), and entered the age of equality, which has freedom for everyone, but with that freedom is supposed to come self-reliance and responsibilty. But most women want to claim the best of both ages, the privalegdes of chivalry, with the freedom of equality, and have no idea what self-reliance or responsiblity are. Even the best women, women who love equality and live the life of self-reliance and responsibilty run back to chivalry when the shit hits the fan.
[/quote]

This is a crock of shit.[/quote]

Fixed.

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[quote]dianab wrote:

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
Tell you a story about women and divorce. This is a pretty common situation, and is in no way unique but I think it makes a good example.

My ex-wife and I have 2 children. She used to bitch alot that I worked too much and was never home. One night I came home, and she’d changed the locks. Apperently she was unhappy with me, and wanted more from life than I could give her. So she locked me out of my own home. While I was trying to get in, the cops showed up, and escorted me away (and in doing so enforced her will, and alowed her to entrench herself with the children). So… she’s in my house with my kids, and I’m sleeping in my car after having been arrested.

Now I file court papers asking for shared custody of my kids. I had to fill them out myself, because every lawyer said it was a waste of time. The problems? #1 I’m sleeping in a fucking car, still obligated to pay all the bills on my family’s home so that my kids have a place to live. #2 while I was working 60 hours a week trying to provide for my family, she was acting as their number one caregiver. “The best interest of the child” is apperently that as little change for them as possible - so since she was their primary care giver before, shes going to be now.

So… she’s got my home, my kids, and a great big slice of my income for the next 17 years, and there is NOTHING I can do about it. But I file my papers anyways. And than I say “fuck it”, and close my bank acounts so that the bills aren’t being payed anymore, and I tell her she’d best start paying them herself. So… a few months later we haven’t been to court, and she hasn’t payed any of her bills.

Long story short, I had to be an asshole about it, but I now have joint custody of my children. She moved to a smaller place, I moved into a place, we went to court, signed the papers, and it’s done… But inspite of the fact that my kids are with me almost 50% of the time, I still have to pay her several hundred dollars a month in child support. Why? Because I’m responsible for making sure they have the same standard of livings in both homes. So… she’s still going to be recieving money from me for the next 17 years.

Apperently she has a right to that standard of living, and I have a responsability to pay for it. What’s awsome? Is my support based on a 40 hour work week that she used to bitch I should work? NO ! It’s based on the 60 hour work week she was so unhappy about. Apperently it doesn’t bother her anymore… So a year passes, and she decides that she wants to move a few hours away. So much for my kids being with me 1/2 the time. So… she moves away, and takes my kids with her through the week. They still spend 39.5% of their time with me, but not 50%… and I have to do the driving. Because apperently she has a right to move. But I have a responsability to travel. And my child support goes up several hundred dollars a month more because they’re only with me 39.5% of the time, and not the 40% that would justify a reduction. But they do cut me a little slack for the travel, so I get a little bit off (about enough to pay for 1 trip of the 10 I make every month). She’s not real please about that fuel money, she want’s it.

So I show up one day to pick my kids up… and she pulls a FUCKING TYLER DURDEN. Hits herself in the face repeatedly, and than calls the cops. Now I’m under arrest. And my kids aren’t comming to see me because apperently I’m violent. She’s now got a boyfriend pumping her household full of his income. She also gets about a grand a month in child tax benefits. So their standard of living is quite a bit higher than mine. By the time we’re done in court next month, I’ll probably be living in a van down by the river.

I’ve got 16 years of this left.

If my ex-wife is oppressed I sure as hell am afraid of what it’s gonna be like when she gets some power. Holy shit. [/quote]

this sucks.
I have no answers for any of this thread, it just makes me sad to think there are people out there who use their kids for money and power. Honestly, this is all like a plane crash to me, you see it on TV but never think it can happen to someone you know.

The guy I am seeing has horror stories too about his ex and her games and entitlement issues. Its sad and depressing.
My ex husband paid my car for a year after we split, which I greatly appreciated because it meant I could go back and forth to work while I got on my feet again. Never asked for child support as we share custody and although the court deemed he was to pay me because of income differences, I knew he could not afford it.

I may not have wanted to be married to him anymore, but as the father of my kid I did not want him broke.
I wouldn’t wish what you are going thru on anyone. What a nightmare.

EDIT: if she has a guy living with her, she should not be having all the child tax credits. Report the bitch.

damn this pisses me off.[/quote]

This does suck, and his ex-wife is probably the biggest bitch ever. To our amazement, this does happen, and I’ve heard disgusting stories like this. Like you, Diana, I had a heart when it came to my ex. I did ask for child support because i have the kids 3/4 of the time, but I actually had it reduced so that he could afford it without being broke.

My attorney thought I was crazy, but I told her that this was not about being a bitch, even though he was such a pussy that he actually tried to get alimony from me. What a joke. I’m in a profession that doesn’t pay jack shit, and since he was unemployed for so long, he thought he should get alimony.

He didn’t get it, but he did get half of my retirement fund. Anyway, my kids are with me most of the time, and they do see their father, which is more important IMO than any other bullshit issue. It took a long time for me to even get him to spend more than 4 hours a week with them!

Not every woman who divorces her husband is an all out bitch, and some of us even get screwed in the process. But the bottom line is that it’s all about the kids!! My kids are healthy and happy, and I’m a professional who works my ass off to support them, because the financial support they get from their father is negligible, and pretty much only pays for after school child care so that I can work.

As a single mom, I’m perfectly capable of providing everything my kids need to be happy and to grow to be responsible adults. The real struggle for single moms like me is the stress caused by the lack of mutual financial support by their father. And let’s not even talk about dating… ugh.

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[quote]Alffi wrote:

Most doctors in my country are women. Out of the young ones, 3 out of 4 are women. Women also hold like half or more of the seats in the parliament. I can’t remember exactly.

Anyway, men will be overrepresented at the top because of said drive as well as natural aggression and the fact that there are far more men with exceptionally high IQ. Men are also most of the homeless, suicides, drug addicts, occupational deaths (95% or something) and overrepresented at the bottom in general. It’s all sort of natural. Feminists just don’t care about the fact that the coin has two sides. They want to see women at the top of this or that because they believe women bring something of special importance to those fields of influence although they are keen of saying, from the other side of their mouth, that gender is just a social construct and that men and women are the same. Except when women are superior of course.[/quote]

Alffi, I’m inclined to agree with you that men will be overrepresented at the top because of drive and aggression. Women are overrepresented in the “helping” professions. I don’t know whether the characteristics that make those jobs a better fit are innate or as a result of societal influences; probably both.

I’m not sure whether I am seen in this thread to be arguing the feminist side in order to negate the male point of view being expressed. I’m not saying there aren’t issues men would be reasonably incensed about. There are. An example that really bothers me is the blocking of male input into abortion decisions, particularly where the potential father of a fetus is against abortion.

My only point is that there IS a flip side of the coin. Women do not have all the power. There are inbalances, but on both sides. Meanwhile, I am fully aware that there are benefits to being female. I know how fortunate I am that when the dog barks in the middle of the night I am not the one who has to go investigate. I work less and sleep more than my husband, seemingly without any resentment whatsoever on his part. I’m not ungrateful, and I’m certainly not shrieking or whining for more concessions from him. (Well, sometimes, maybe. I don’t know. I actually did get a little snippy about how much he works just last night, but only in the context of needing to plan my time off through the end of the year. I did feel pretty guilty about it after reading Broncoandy’s posts about his ex, though.)

I hope I don’t come off as anti-man. I really am not, and I don’t think being pro-woman necessarily puts me in opposition to men.

[quote]My ex husband paid my car for a year after we split, which I greatly appreciated because it meant I could go back and forth to work while I got on my feet again. Never asked for child support as we share custody and although the court deemed he was to pay me because of income differences, I knew he could not afford it.

I may not have wanted to be married to him anymore, but as the father of my kid I did not want him broke.
I wouldn’t wish what you are going thru on anyone. What a nightmare. [/quote]

This is such a great attitude to have. I like to think it happens more often than people realize because the horror stories are what get passed around.

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I think you’ve represented YOUR side very well, Emily. Meaning that you haven’t been taking the ‘female’ side, as much as you’ve been discussing what your experiences are and what you’ve seen through others in your profession.

It’s been nice watching this dicussion transpire, without petty bickering and arguing…Which is probably what would’ve happened if I had said that some of what Broncoandy has posted, was complete garbage. But, I abstained:)

77

[quote]imhungry wrote:
I think you’ve represented YOUR side very well, Emily. Meaning that you haven’t been taking the ‘female’ side, as much as you’ve been discussing what your experiences are and what you’ve seen through others in your profession.

It’s been nice watching this dicussion transpire, without petty bickering and arguing…Which is probably what would’ve happened if I had said that some of what Broncoandy has posted, was complete garbage. But, I abstained:)

[/quote]

This is complete garbage. :slight_smile:

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[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]My ex husband paid my car for a year after we split, which I greatly appreciated because it meant I could go back and forth to work while I got on my feet again. Never asked for child support as we share custody and although the court deemed he was to pay me because of income differences, I knew he could not afford it.

I may not have wanted to be married to him anymore, but as the father of my kid I did not want him broke.
I wouldn’t wish what you are going thru on anyone. What a nightmare. [/quote]

This is such a great attitude to have. I like to think it happens more often than people realize because the horror stories are what get passed around. [/quote]

You know, I never thought of me having a great attitude, I just feel that fucking someone over because you can is the lowest form of human indecency. I still believe that the majority of people in this world are decent, maybe that is naive, IDK. In real life I have seen more examples of courteous and just divorces than the types we read about on the internet.

A friend of mine got married last month and when I saw the pictures I remarked that the photographer was excellent, mainly for the poses, which were beautiful and romantic. Turns out the ex wife of her new husband took all the wedding pictures. My ex husband re-painted my apartment last year after I lost my house, due to breaking up with my bf. I know more divorced parents that get along fine than actual married couples.
I guess, like everything else, we tend to hear and remember the horror stories.

79

In my country…
60% of doctors under 35 are female.
45% of doctors between 35 and 45 are female.
49% of doctors under the age of 45 are female.
39% of doctors between 45 and 55 are female.
44% of doctors under the age of 55 are female.

Above 55 the numbers shift to males, however there doesn’t seem to be any data that says how much of that shift is the result of women who retire early while men have to work later because of the toll alimony, etc… takes on their retirement savings.

Only 12% of the doctors who work past 65 are female. Your not going to tell me the men who keep working after 65 are more privlidged than their female counterparts are you?

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Statistics/04AgeSexPrv.pdf

This brings me to an interesting point. Do you feel that doctors should be 1/2 male and 1/2 female and that if it doesn’t it’s unfair? Because I’d like to point out that any job that has a 50% male, 50% female layout is actually disproportionatly scewed in favor of females. Why? Because if everything is fair, and all things are equal the makeup of these higher income jobs should reflect the general work force - of which I do not believe that women make up 1/2. You see if the entire population is 50% male, and 50% female, but 20% of the females choose housewife as a carreer than the “all is fair” split is actually 60% male, 40% female.

How about work hours?

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Statistics/36-Chart-AvgHrsXSex.pdf

It seems that for 25 years from 1982 to 2007 males averaged almost an entire shift more each week than their female counterparts every year. Do these extra shifts make these men more valuable employees? A more valuable employee will usually be better compensated, and favored for promotions and such no?

What are their pay preferences?

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/CMA/Content_Images/Inside_cma/Statistics/40-Chart-DistXSexRemun.pdf

Looks like women slightly favor a fixed salary, while men slightly favor pay per service. This means the males have more incentive to see more patients and are better able to make more money.

I didn’t find the actual income numbers, but since doctors here are basically government employees, I’m quite sure they’re both overpayed.

I do have a question about your doctor’s incomes though. In a country like the U.S. where their pay isn’t gaurenteed because it’s a private system who is more likely to do their work for less money for the sake of a patient? The males or the females? Not a big thing, but something to think about in a field where your job is to help people, and where no matter what you do you will be paid more than enough at the end of the month to drive a nice car, own a nice home, etc… What’s their job satisfaction like? Pay isn’t the only reward worth dealing in with these kinds of jobs, and I suspect that job satisfaction is more level than the money itself would reflect.

This also brings me to a question. How many people in the world are doctors? Really.

How many more female wait staff are there? I wonder if they get tipped better than their male counterparts.
How many more female sales people are there? I wonder if they make more commisions.
Hair dressers? School teachers? Secretarys? Nurses?

See… this is something I don’t get. When you said earlier that “most doctors are men, most nurses are women” it seemed to me (and I could be wrong) as if you were comparing doctors and nurses as if doctor was a promosion from nurse. But it’s not ! When I think about it, the male equivelent of a nurse isn’t a doctor. The male equivelent of a nurse is more like a construction worker. Why? Because for men who aren’t doctors construction is a valid carreer choice that plays to their natural strengths, and for women who aren’t doctors nursing is a valid carreer choice that plays to thier natural strengths. Get it?

As for child bearing and child rearing… those aren’t forced on anyone. Those are choices that women (and a few men whom society would deam less masculin) make knowing the consequences. But it’s funny because in any field where promotions are significant like business, doctors, etc… They make enough money, and there job is rewarding enough without the promotions that the choice is really not that big a deal as near as I can tell. For most of the working class, promotions aren’t really something that they worry about. If your a mechanic, your a mechanic. There’s not really any promotion or that. If your a farmer, your a farmer. Wher do you go from there. If your a truck driver, a construction worker, a waitress, a cook, a millwright, a carpenter, an equipment operator, etc… etc… etc… The company ladder looks like a foot stool you give your kids so they can stand at the sink and brush their teeth. A little bit of time off isn’t a big deal because of promotions and long term money. It’s a big deal because of the short term money you loose. Days and months off work. Women with partners take that time off, and their men work overtime to make up for it. Than the women go back to work, and the only thing that it cost them was the time off.

Or… if they don’t feel like going back to work, they divorce their man, get him to pay them, and then go find a 2nd man, and than live off of that instead.

80

[quote]imhungry wrote:
It’s been nice watching this dicussion transpire, without petty bickering and arguing…Which is probably what would’ve happened if I had said that some of what Broncoandy has posted, was complete garbage. But, I abstained:)
[/quote]

What did I say that was garbage?