In Soviet Russia....

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281

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

It could lead to kids starting to think that socialism or communism may be a good idea again and a repeat of the Soviet Union. Capitalism and democracy may not be perfect, but they are millions of times better then communism or socialism.
[/quote]

But doesnt everyone need to “pay their fair share” and have gov’t health care and regulations to stop the greedy 1% from depriving the majority of the population? [/quote]

Lessons that should be learned from communism and socialism:

  1. There is a big difference between “paying your fair share” and communism or socialism. People should pay income taxes proportional to their earnings, and so should businesses. That is not communism or socialism, that is just fair.

[/quote]

Corporations do not pay taxes.

How could they, they do not exist.

A legal abstraction is as likely to pay taxes as the big bad wolf. [/quote]

I am a little confused here. I thought that businesses had to pay taxes on their profits and in a few other instances here in America. Was I wrong?

282

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

It could lead to kids starting to think that socialism or communism may be a good idea again and a repeat of the Soviet Union. Capitalism and democracy may not be perfect, but they are millions of times better then communism or socialism.
[/quote]

But doesnt everyone need to “pay their fair share” and have gov’t health care and regulations to stop the greedy 1% from depriving the majority of the population? [/quote]

Lessons that should be learned from communism and socialism:

  1. There is a big difference between “paying your fair share” and communism or socialism. People should pay income taxes proportional to their earnings, and so should businesses. That is not communism or socialism, that is just fair.

[/quote]

Corporations do not pay taxes.

How could they, they do not exist.

A legal abstraction is as likely to pay taxes as the big bad wolf. [/quote]

I am a little confused here. I thought that businesses had to pay taxes on their profits and in a few other instances here in America. Was I wrong?
[/quote]

No, the US has the proud distinction of having the highest corporate taxes in the civilized world, if Japan has gone ahead and lowered her taxes on corporations.

However corporations are a legal abstraction, you cannot tax abstractions.

You can only tax people which is why corporate taxes comes out of the pockets of mainly three groups:

Owners, workers, customers.

Research so far seems to lean heavy on the tax coming out of the workers productivity side.

Which, incidentally would mean that most US citizens are already much closer to “socialist Europe” style taxation than they realize.

Then again, an electorate that actually believes that there can be such a thing as an employers contribution to social security will literally believe anything if packaged the right way.

283

[quote]orion wrote:

No, the US has the proud distinction of having the highest corporate taxes in the civilized world, if Japan has gone ahead and lowered her taxes on corporations.

However corporations are a legal abstraction, you cannot tax abstractions.

You can only tax people which is why corporate taxes comes out of the pockets of mainly three groups:

Owners, workers, customers.

Research so far seems to lean heavy on the tax coming out of the workers productivity side.

Which, incidentally would mean that most US citizens are already much closer to “socialist Europe” style taxation than they realize.

Then again, an electorate that actually believes that there can be such a thing as an employers contribution to social security will literally believe anything if packaged the right way.

[/quote]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. And I agree that people will believe anything if you package it the right way. It happened all the time in the Soviet Union. Almost as often as the “Do, or believe, this or you will be sent to the gulag” method.

284

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, the US has the proud distinction of having the highest corporate taxes in the civilized world, if Japan has gone ahead and lowered her taxes on corporations.

However corporations are a legal abstraction, you cannot tax abstractions.

You can only tax people which is why corporate taxes comes out of the pockets of mainly three groups:

Owners, workers, customers.

Research so far seems to lean heavy on the tax coming out of the workers productivity side.

Which, incidentally would mean that most US citizens are already much closer to “socialist Europe” style taxation than they realize.

Then again, an electorate that actually believes that there can be such a thing as an employers contribution to social security will literally believe anything if packaged the right way.

[/quote]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. And I agree that people will believe anything if you package it the right way. It happened all the time in the Soviet Union. Almost as often as the “Do, or believe, this or you will be sent to the gulag” method.
[/quote]

Well, that is a highly unsophisticated way of doing things, in Sowjet Europe we have developed far more advanced techniques.

Why force them under the yoke when you can make them beg for it.

285

[quote]orion wrote:

Well, that is a highly unsophisticated way of doing things, in Sowjet Europe we have developed far more advanced techniques.

Why force them under the yoke when you can make them beg for it. [/quote]

Very true. I just hope that more people realize what is going on before it is too late. I would hate to see a repeat of the Soviet Union.

286

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Well, that is a highly unsophisticated way of doing things, in Sowjet Europe we have developed far more advanced techniques.

Why force them under the yoke when you can make them beg for it. [/quote]

Very true. I just hope that more people realize what is going on before it is too late. I would hate to see a repeat of the Soviet Union. [/quote]

Let’s not force this to PWI, but I think I am less worried about the economic movement towards socialism than the cultural push for a more controlled/repressed/ intollerant cultural agenda. Reference how the new Texas social studies and history cirriculum came about.

287

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Well, that is a highly unsophisticated way of doing things, in Sowjet Europe we have developed far more advanced techniques.

Why force them under the yoke when you can make them beg for it. [/quote]

Very true. I just hope that more people realize what is going on before it is too late. I would hate to see a repeat of the Soviet Union. [/quote]

Let’s not force this to PWI, but I think I am less worried about the economic movement towards socialism than the cultural push for a more controlled/repressed/ intollerant cultural agenda. Reference how the new Texas social studies and history cirriculum came about.[/quote]

Agreed. I started this thread in GAL specifically to avoid this. I meant for this thread to be about stories about life in the Soviet Union and other places that are different from the US.

297

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Matt, I too have found this thread very interesting. However, believe it not, much of what you’ve disclosed is no news to me. I’ve read these type stories before but it is more fascinating reading them from a “local” guy.

[/quote]

X2

And Push, I think our age has something to do with that.

We grew up with a real keen awareness of the USSR, I think.[/quote]

I agree with you. I forget sometimes that the average age here is 20-something and they have little to no memory of the communist era.[/quote]

Yeah, not too many have “ducked and covered,” good buddy. Lol.[/quote]

You know, the Soviet government got a hold of some of those “duck and cover” recordings and they played them for us at rallies and such so we could laugh at you and how afraid of the mighty Soviet Union the Americans were. Of course, they underplayed the part where America had enough nukes to blow the entire Soviet Union off the face of the planet. There were even attempts to try and have us believe that the US had very few nukes and could not do much damage to the Soviet Union, but only the most brainwashed of us actually bought that. Most of us lived in as much fear of nuclear war as the rest of the world.

298

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

I honestly think we take it all for granted. Just assuming that i can go to any supermarket within a 2miles radius, which there are roughly 4-7 and just buy whatever is something we as American severely take for granted and i think there would be massive problem for society if god forbid i wasnt able to buy cantaloupe in the middle of December [/quote]

I would this is pretty true for middle class US but not for many poor. Check out “food deserts”.
[/quote]

I was just discussing this with a friend in the context of our hometown’s best known ghetto. No supermarkets within an accessible distance…[/quote]
Shoulda stayed in school. In the US we have the power of choice to pursue a better life or not and that is all anyone should be entitled to. Nevermind grants, scholarships, hardship entitlements et cetera that are readily accessible.[/quote]

There is more at play than this, and it is an interesting topic, but let’s not derail this thread.[/quote]
No derail intended, considering communism and all.[/quote]

Sorry, missed this post. One of the causes of food deserts in the US is market driven; areas consisting of poor populations are not generally considered a wise investment for grocers. The lack of a local grocery store dependent on a public transportation for the most part means usually less nutritious food choices (often fast food) which has effects in education and health, which leads to effects in employment, etc.

299

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Hard to believe that I actually used to have serious debates against kids who thought the Soviet system was superior to what we had…[/quote]

It is easy to argue something is great when you don’t really know anything about it. The Soviet system did look great on paper, but the practical application of communist and socialist principles in real life was an absolute failure and does not need to be attempted again. Living through it once was more than enough for me.

300

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

That’s awesome, Doc!! Congrats!!!

Will she be surprised?
[/quote]

I think she knows something big is going to happen, but I don’t think she quite knows that I am going to propose. I am taking her to this really nice restaurant called Isabela on Grandview that has a wonderful view of the city. I am pretty sure she will say yes (her parents are 100% sure), but I am still pretty nervous.
[/quote]
Great restaurant choice, Matt! :-)[/quote]

For special occasions, there is none better in the area. For just regular eating, though, I prefer Sauce in Bridgeville. Huge ass burgers covered in cheese, bacon, and all kinds of other tasty things. Nothing like it, especially after a hard workout.
[/quote]

You didn’t take her to Primanti’s? :wink:

CONGRATS Brother!
[/quote]

How in the HELL you know about that, SD?[/quote]

Premanti’s? Dude I used to ROCK Premanti’s :wink:

I used to live near Johnstown/Altoona. Worked for a consulting engineering firm in the area. Spent a lot of time in the Burgh and Moon Twp. I’m pretty familiar with most of PA in general having grown up down there.