The guy was protecting HIS land in HIS country.
Fuck 'em. Illegals had damaged his property before, he had good reason to have a gun and a dog, who knows what they’re packing.
It’s every man’s right to protect himself and his family.
I wouldn’t let strange people pass close to my family.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
First, I never argued that it was right, or that “might makes right” only that a contract has to be enforceable by an authoritative 3rd party…
You implied “might makes right” by saying government needs to exist to protect weaker people. And I offer a counter-argument that if this were the case then society would not exist as we know it.
Otherwise, it isn’t a contract. You could have a promise between you and your employer, but there are not enforceable consequences of breaking a promise.
Contracts are LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE promises. A third party organization of some sort is required to enable a contract.
Strictly speaking, contracts do not have to be in writing. Anytime you make an agreement with someone it is a contract.
A good firm handshake can seal the deal in some instances.
Keeping a promise is still a voluntary arrangement that cannot be enforces because people have the right to change their mind.
I agree however, that there needs to be a 3rd party means to enforce contract.[/quote]
No, I never argued it was right or they should be there for protection. Just pointed out that it is indeed government that facilitates your prised private property.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
What inventions are you talking about specifically? (just curious)
All of them, but to name a few:
the controlled use of fire; the wheel; the smelting of iron, bronze, and steel; the printing press; the engine and motor; the wing; the transistor; the computer; the integrated circuit chip; the interwebz…do I need to keep going?
You ridicule the space program and probably wear Velcro shoes. Sorry, I know that was a bit of a low blow, but I couldn’t help myself.
But you have no way of knowing or even proving that these “innovations” would not have come about on their own with out government interference.
All you can say with any certainty is that government did interfere and as a result we have them. What could we have had instead? We cannot say.[/quote]
And you have no way of proving that they would. There are however some things like atomic energy that I don’t think private industry would have ever tackled. Not to mention the space race you made fun of paving the way for all the satellites we now enjoy.
Would satellites have happened any? Probably eventually but not nearly as early as they did. So go use the gps in your car to find your way home so you can watch your satellite TV.
I’m not familiar with all the inventions you list, but the interwebz weren’t created by Al Gore. To my knowledge they were invented as a military network.
I think the lawsuit has no merit. They are here illegally, and I don’t agree with the priviledges that illegals get. I say priviledges because they haven’t earned them. They do not pay into the system and do not deserve what they get here. After seeing what Americans have endured when in Mexico by its citizens and law enforcement, I have zero sympathy for those who come here illegally.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
In general anyone should be able to sue anyone no matter where they happen to be from. I know if I were traveling in an other country I would expect the same rights.
Whether this case will result in a favorable decision for the boarder crossers is doubtful. They were apprehended while tresspassing on someone’s property so they can hardly feel wronged.
In general, I am against the idea of stopping people from crossing boarders. In fact, without the notion national boarders immigration would be handled as a property issue. No one would be able to cross property lines without permission from the owners. No one could be anywhere without permission from anyone if where they happened to be was not their own property.
Also, these boarder patrol agents are just plain cocksuckers that serve no purpose.[/quote]
I do not know any body in AZ that shares your views, thankfully. Until recently these guys were seriously under paid, I mean prison guard underpaid. . I do not understand why you would think these guys are cock suckers
[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
In general anyone should be able to sue anyone no matter where they happen to be from. I know if I were traveling in an other country I would expect the same rights.
I guess I missed the part of the article where it mentioned they were tourists.
[/quote]
Where did I mention they were tourists?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
There are however some things like atomic energy that I don’t think private industry would have ever tackled.
…
I’m not familiar with all the inventions you list, but the interwebz weren’t created by Al Gore. To my knowledge they were invented as a military network.[/quote]
Atomic theory began in private institutions unbeknownst to any government agency. It wasn’t until Einstein (a Professor at Princeton) wrote a letter to FDR trying to convince him of the possible threat that atomic weapons might pose to free people that government became involved. The Manhattan project was not a group of government bureaucrats but a group of actual trained scientists with knowledge and expertise government cannot have.
Similarly, the internet was not invented by any one person or group of people. This is a completely anarchic technology developed by thousands of persons worldwide under the guise of TCP/IP. ARPANET used very simple packet switching technology which compared to TCP/IP is like comparing a 10 speed to a rocket.
What you also fail to notice is that government can’t produce anything on its own. The best it can do is loot and force someone else with the knowledge and the ability to do the work because it cannot. Government relies on anarchic cooperation for innovative technology as much as individuals do.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not know any body in AZ that shares your views.
[/quote]
Well by convention then I must be wrong.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
There are however some things like atomic energy that I don’t think private industry would have ever tackled.
…
I’m not familiar with all the inventions you list, but the interwebz weren’t created by Al Gore. To my knowledge they were invented as a military network.
Atomic theory began in private institutions unbeknownst to any government agency. It wasn’t until Einstein (a Professor at Princeton) wrote a letter to FDR trying to convince him of the possible threat that atomic weapons might pose to free people that government became involved. The Manhattan project was not a group of government bureaucrats but a group of actual trained scientists with knowledge and expertise government cannot have.
Similarly, the internet was not invented by any one person or group of people. This is a completely anarchic technology developed by thousands of persons worldwide under the guise of TCP/IP. ARPANET used very simple packet switching technology which compared to TCP/IP is like comparing a 10 speed to a rocket.
What you also fail to notice is that government can’t produce anything on its own. The best it can do is loot and force someone else with the knowledge and the ability to do the work because it cannot. Government relies on anarchic cooperation for innovative technology as much as individuals do.[/quote]
lol. Well why not take your logic a step further? A private cooperation cannot produce anything either, only an individual mind. So, we don’t need even companies, only individuals to advance all scientific achievement.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate government more than the next guy, but I’m not ideologically obtuse enough to refute the fact that they have ever facilitated good or productive things.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
lol. Well why not take your logic a step further? A private cooperation cannot produce anything either, only an individual mind. So, we don’t need even companies, only individuals to advance all scientific achievement.[/quote]
No. Besides being wrong you are missing the point.
We cannot allow ourselves to be confused by collective action. It is true that only individuals can act. Cooperation merely implies that a group of people have decided to act in concert with each other. Each individual coordinates his activities with a group to best fulfill his own interests which must also coincide with the desires of the group he wishes to cooperate with – for example, he might get paid by a company to do a specific job and he therefore has a stake in the work he produces.
What the government does is also coordination but it is redundant coordination because it must first take from productive society. It is basically performing a task that would happen under market conditions except it does not rely on data from the market to understand whether this task is necessary or not.
Government acts purely out of a function of fulfilling policy. There is no recourse for correction when it makes a mistake – it is simply written off with taxpayer dollars or inflation. Come election time we replace one loser for an other and the cycle repeats itself.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
lol. Well why not take your logic a step further? A private cooperation cannot produce anything either, only an individual mind. So, we don’t need even companies, only individuals to advance all scientific achievement.
No. Besides being wrong you are missing the point.
We cannot allow ourselves to be confused by collective action. It is true that only individuals can act. Cooperation merely implies that a group of people have decided to act in concert with each other. Each individual coordinates his activities with a group to best fulfill his own interests which must also coincide with the desires of the group he wishes to cooperate with – for example, he might get paid by a company to do a specific job and he therefore has a stake in the work he produces.
What the government does is also coordination but it is redundant coordination because it must first take from productive society. It is basically performing a task that would happen under market conditions except it does not rely on data from the market to understand whether this task is necessary or not.
Government acts purely out of a function of fulfilling policy. There is no recourse for correction when it makes a mistake – it is simply written off with taxpayer dollars or inflation. Come election time we replace one loser for an other and the cycle repeats itself.[/quote]
Preaching to the choir, however, overthrowing this government and replacing it with social organizations wouldn’t interrupt the cycle.
Oddly enough politics are multiple people making decisions together. Any type of human organization ultimately results in a government.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
There are however some things like atomic energy that I don’t think private industry would have ever tackled.
…
I’m not familiar with all the inventions you list, but the interwebz weren’t created by Al Gore. To my knowledge they were invented as a military network.
Atomic theory began in private institutions unbeknownst to any government agency. It wasn’t until Einstein (a Professor at Princeton) wrote a letter to FDR trying to convince him of the possible threat that atomic weapons might pose to free people that government became involved. The Manhattan project was not a group of government bureaucrats but a group of actual trained scientists with knowledge and expertise government cannot have.
Similarly, the internet was not invented by any one person or group of people. This is a completely anarchic technology developed by thousands of persons worldwide under the guise of TCP/IP. ARPANET used very simple packet switching technology which compared to TCP/IP is like comparing a 10 speed to a rocket.
What you also fail to notice is that government can’t produce anything on its own. The best it can do is loot and force someone else with the knowledge and the ability to do the work because it cannot. Government relies on anarchic cooperation for innovative technology as much as individuals do.[/quote]
but when you have warfare or government focussed projects (like the space race) it tends to bring inventors and scientists together with the best possible resources and you get rapid development of inventions that have carry over to the world at large such as jet powered flight, radar, submarines, gun powder, tempered steel, shielded electronics, geostationary satelite technology, non-stick frying pans, velcro, advanced heat shielding technology, I could go on all day.
Can we agree to start protect our borders and enforcing our immigration laws much more seriously?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090209/ap_on_re_us/border_spillover_violence
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Any type of human organization ultimately results in a government.[/quote]
Or it can result in private enterprise, churches, universities, families, sports federations, non-profit groups, hospitals, or any other myriad of enterprise that may result from free people interacting with each other.
Then come along those few in society who look at all that is produced by the above institutions and they try to figure out how they can also get a piece of the pie. They end up forming crime organizations to loot everyone else. The first one to do it calls themselves government and creates a monopoly on this privilege.
;>
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Any type of human organization ultimately results in a government.
Or it can result in private enterprise, churches, universities, families, sports federations, non-profit groups, hospitals, or any other myriad of enterprise that may result from free people interacting with each other.
Then come along those few in society who look at all that is produced by the above institutions and they try to figure out how they can also get a piece of the pie. They end up forming crime organizations to loot everyone else. The first one to do it calls themselves government and creates a monopoly on this privilege.
;>[/quote]
Many times those private enterprises create that monopoly though. look at what churches used to/still do.
A rose by any other name…
It’s still a government when it is being done by private businesses, just because it is called something different the effect is the same.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Many times those private enterprises create that monopoly though. look at what churches used to/still do.[/quote]
Every unique product or service is a monopoly. The real question one needs to ask is: do I have a choice in whether I use this product or not?
I am not forced to worship.
I am forced to pay taxes and I have no other choice in the matter.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
A rose by any other name…
It’s still a government when it is being done by private businesses, just because it is called something different the effect is the same.[/quote]
I don’t care what its called. I only care what it can get away with at my expense.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m not familiar with all the inventions you list, but the interwebz weren’t created by Al Gore. To my knowledge they were invented as a military network.[/quote]
CERN is military now?
(Not an anarchist, just spreading the good word of dem crazy nerdz at CERN)
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
In general anyone should be able to sue anyone no matter where they happen to be from. I know if I were traveling in an other country I would expect the same rights.
Whether this case will result in a favorable decision for the boarder crossers is doubtful. They were apprehended while tresspassing on someone’s property so they can hardly feel wronged.
In general, I am against the idea of stopping people from crossing boarders. In fact, without the notion national boarders immigration would be handled as a property issue. No one would be able to cross property lines without permission from the owners. No one could be anywhere without permission from anyone if where they happened to be was not their own property.
Also, these boarder patrol agents are just plain cocksuckers that serve no purpose.
I do not know any body in AZ that shares your views, thankfully. Until recently these guys were seriously under paid, I mean prison guard underpaid. . I do not understand why you would think these guys are cock suckers
[/quote]
He is a disgruntled douche bag that lives in mommys basement begrudging the government and everything to do with it. If anybody has ever needed their ass kicked for their opinion it is him. He talks a good non-government game, but if it came down to it he would be the first to call the police if any crime was comitted against him.